Timing of the abomination of desolation

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covenantee

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The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have been gathering materials and making the temple artifacts of worship for years now. It's been at least a decade since the Temple Mount Faithful tried to enter the Temple Mount and set the cornerstone in place. So yeah, they've had the cornerstone for the new temple cut for quite a while now.

Bible prophecy reveals it will happen, so it's just a matter of keep looking for it.

Another point of interest to keep in mind is the ark of the covenant. That's another requirement of temple worship. It was lost in the days of Jeremiah the prophet, but notice the orthodox Jews (and scientists) are still looking for it. It's actually shown in Heaven per Revelation 11:19, no longer here on earth. But the false Jews will come up with one just the same, when it is time to rebuild their next temple in prep for the coming false-Messiah.

We'll see how far they get.

I'm stocked up on popcorn.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
 

ewq1938

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I don't agree. Posting the Discourse does not argue for your position at all. It's just the way you choose to read it.


No, it's about reading what it actually says. It doesn't say what you are claiming. There is nothing that can change that Jesus said one generation would see all the Olivet Discourse events. You split it into two very far away generations will see some and the other the rest. That's not what Jesus spoke of. Your position butchers the text.
 

covenantee

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Oh, you can discuss your false Preterist/Historicist doctrines from men all you want without me. I'm not preventing you from that, and nor do I have to leave you alone in countering your false doctrines from men's traditions either.

About being friends, as long as you also believe on The Father and His Son Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit, then we are brethren. But we both may not be 'in Christ' though. There's a price to pay if we heed men's doctrines instead of listening directly to The Father and His Son in HIS Word.



I don't believe Jesus was pointing to the generation of 70 A.D. As a matter of fact, I KNOW He was not pointing to 70 A.D. In order for that to be true, it would REQUIRE that Jesus' 2nd coming HAD to have happened back then, simply because the LAST SIGN He gave in His Olivet discourse is that of His coming and gathering of His saints, which directly parallels what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church.

Now if you wrongly believe Jesus' 2nd coming ALREADY HAPPENED back in 70 A.D., or the days of His Apostles, then that makes you a follower of men's false tradition called 'Full Preterism'. Good luck with that falseness, because I don't think Lord Jesus is going to put up with that, so you mark yourself possibly for having Him shut the door in your face when He does come in our near future, like those five foolish virgins in Matthew 25.

If you're using pre-70 AD fulfillment as the test of preterism, then you would have to conclude that:
1. The Judean Christians were preterists, because their flight fulfilling Jesus' prediction occurred before 70 AD.
2. Jesus was a preterist, because His prediction and its fulfillment in the Judean Christians' flight occurred before 70 AD.
3. Matthew, Mark, and Luke were preterists, because they bore record of Jesus' prediction. At least one of their Gospels was written before 70 AD.

There's at least a little preterism in everyone.
 
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covenantee

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No, it's about reading what it actually says. It doesn't say what you are claiming. There is nothing that can change that Jesus said one generation would see all the Olivet Discourse events. You split it into two very far away generations will see some and the other the rest. That's not what Jesus spoke of. Your position butchers the text.

Did the Judean Christians' flight butcher the text?
 

Keraz

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Thus the Bible witnesses that another Jewish temple will be built in Jerusalem for the end of this world is plentiful. Here is still another...

Zech 6:12-13
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:


13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

KJV
Why didn't you include the next verse's?
Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come to work on the rebuilding of the Temple.....

It will not be the Jews who build the new Temple, but the Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language, the followers of the 'branch', the religion which 'grew out from that place'.

During His first sojourn on earth, the God-Man Jesus had nowhere to dwell (Matt.8:20; Lk.9:28). His rightful place as God would have been the Temple in Jerusalem, but He is driven from there under threat of death by the rulers of Israel. But at the end of the age, this God-Man will become the ordained, accepted and anointed King of the whole earth by military defeat of His enemies. The question is then, "WHERE WILL HE LIVE PHYSICALLY, AND OF WHAT TYPE WILL HIS HOUSE BE?

Ezekiel answers this. The House in which Emmanuel (God with us) will live must fulfill a number of qualifications.

· It must be in Jerusalem

· It must be a Palace fit for the greatest King ever to live

· It must be a House that reflects the accomplishments of this great King

· It must be a House that allows the correct service to such an Holy One

· It must be a House that everyone of every nation can come up to to pray, worship and have audience with Emmanuel


Now, Jesus, having set aside His high position in heaven, and having come to earth to serve His Father and serve men, took a very low and humble position. He was devoid of money and dwelling. He was ministered to by women. He was threatened, rejected, reviled, beaten, spat upon, insulted and finally murdered among criminals, naked. This was all done to achieve what His Father needed done to satisfy His righteousness and extend mercy to depraved mankind. So when God sends His Son the second time as military Commander to retake Government of this earth, in His righteousness and justice HE MUST VINDICATE HIS SON IN PROPORTION TO WHAT HE LOST THE FIRST TIME. And part of this vindication is;

· His personal glory. It is so strong that it can dethrone and cast away the Beast who was the most powerful man on earth (2nd Thess.2:8)

· His House. The House that the Man Jesus will live in must reflect Who He is and what He has done

· That men must bow to Him in worship IN HIS PRESENCE AND OUT OF IT (Phil.2:10)


And this last point necessitates that men who enter His physical presence, like Aaron and all following High Priests did all those years, (i) have their sins put away, and (ii) be cleansed from the defiled flesh. Aaron and his line of High Priests had the Altar and the Laver in the OUTER COURT on and in the which they had to fulfill sacrifice and washing. One for sins and one for uncleanness. The Christian is no different EXCEPT that BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN THE PERSON AND WORK OF CHRIST, he has BOTH done for Him by Jesus. But the nation of Israel and the nations REFUSED CHRIST. Fortunately, their sin and sins are put away by Christ BUT THEY WERE NEVER WASHED BY CHRIST. Our example of Judas is unequivocal. Judas lived side by side with Jesus for 3½ years and yet did not believe in Him. So when our Lord Jesus washed the disciples in John 13, Judas remained UNCLEAN. That is, UNBELIEVERS ARE UNCLEAN, even if their sins are put away. And if UNCLEAN, THEN THEY NEED TO BE CLEANSED BEFORE AUDIENCE WITH THE GREAT AND HOLY GOD-MAN JESUS IN JERUSALEM EVERY YEAR.

Now, in the Law of Moses, the requirements for CLEANSING Aaron for audience with God are laid down. They worked! Aaron was not ever slain despite the utter danger of entering the Holy of Holies. And God has decided that this procedure which He ordained for the cleansing of the FLESH is valid UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS. After the heaven and earth have passed at the end of the Millennium, all men will have resurrected bodies. 1st Corinthians 15:42 tells us of the corrupted body; "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It (the body) is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption" That is, after the introduction of the Renewed Earth THE CLEANSING OF THE BODY IS NO LONGER NEED. ALL BODIES OF ALL MEN ARE IN INCORRUPTION. SO THE LAW WITH ITS ANIMAL SACRIFICES WILL PASS THEN. Then a different order will reign. The men who have been consigned to the Lake of Fire are regarded as UNCLEAN, and they will not be allowed audience with Jesus. Even a cursory look at Revelation 21:24-27 shows the change of regime.

24 "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it (New Jerusalem): and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."


The process on the Renewed Earth is the SAME as the Millennium EXCEPT that all bodies are incorruptible. But those not written in the Book of Life, and who went to the Lake of Fire, are regarded as UNCLEAN and may not have audience with Christ and God. That is why they are called "CARCASSES" in Isaiah 66:24 - to depict their eternal unworthiness to have audience with God.
 

Davy

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Since you mischaracterize my view, or worse, slander me, I need to correct you. My position isn't Preterist/Historicist, although I draw upon some of their views. My position is Futurist, but non-Dispensationalist.

If it walks like a duck... .

I already explained to you my position on that. Be happy with what you believe.

I don't have to be made 'happy' in order to rightly understand God's Word as written. My emotions have nothing to do with it; my understanding by The Holy Spirit has everything to do with it.

I'm not sure you're understanding my posts. I never once said Jesus came back in 70 AD. I said that Jesus did not include his Coming as one of the signs of his generation, because he made that event unpredictable for all but the Father. And he indicated it would take place far beyond his own generation, at the end of an entire age of Jewish Punishment.

Oh, I understood your posts alright. It is you that DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the doctrines of men you've latched onto, like the Preterist/Historicist idea that the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans fulfilled Jesus' Olivet discourse. As I said, in order to believe that, then it would mean one MUST believe Jesus' 2nd coming happened in His Apostle's days, and I explained why that is, but here goes once again, and I don't have my anvil today...

Matt 24:32-36
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


Know what is "at the doors"? His coming and gathering of His Church, which was the LAST THING (or Sign) Jesus gave there, and is INCLUDED in "all these things".


But man tries to say, "Ah no, the not one stone atop another already happened back in 70 A.D.!"


But wait a minute, we either believe Lord Jesus, or we don't. So should we believe "all these things" that He said INCLUDES that 'not one stone upon another' prophecy? Yes we should, because... didn't He say above when we see "all these things", meaning ALL those Signs, to know that "it is near, even at the doors"?

What's that, what's at the doors and near when we see "all these things" (i.e, the Signs He gave there)? --- It's about His future coming, which was the LAST SIGN He gave among "all these things". Simple when one actually follows the Scripture as written.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


And there it is again, Jesus reveals just WHICH generation He was pointing to with "all these things" (i.e., Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse). He was pointing to the generation that will SEE "all these things", INCLUDING His coming.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
KJV


And just so we know exactly what day He is pointing to, He declares the event of heaven and earth passing away, which is about the end of this present world that occurs on the day of His coming, on the "day of the Lord".

Jesus said he was speaking of his own generation. Of that I have no doubt myself. So we'll just have to let the Lord speak to us individually?

I've already well shown that idea is totally bogus and a leaven doctrine of men, and you didn't come up with that idea. That's one of the false doctrines 'they' push.

When Jesus said the generation that sees "all these things", you cannot have that mean a generation back at His 1st coming, and then another generation at the end of the world when He returns. There is nothing sane about that kind of logic. That is an idea from Christ's enemies hiding behind the Preterist/Historicist schools.
 

Davy

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Since you mischaracterize my view, or worse, slander me, I need to correct you. My position isn't Preterist/Historicist, although I draw upon some of their views. My position is Futurist, but non-Dispensationalist.

I didn't slander you, I slandered those FAKES hiding behind the Preterist/Historicist schools. If I rebuked you, it was about your latching onto THEIR false doctrines when you should be listening directly to Jesus in His Word. If that's what you call slander, then it means you feel you are beyond rebuke.

And congratulations! on being 'some' of those seminary school categories! I ain't NONE of them. And that's why their followers get confused when trying to label me in one of their insane categories. Stick to God's Word as written, and ALL... of those seminary categories just fall by the wayside. Remember Jesus' leaven fragments warning (Mark 8:15-21).


How Jesus' "... not be left here one stone upon another..." prophecy is for the LAST generation also:

It's called the Wailing Wall, huge stones atop another are still there at the temple mount today!

So do we sing the old Jimmy Durante performance of Should I Stay, Or Should I Go song with saying that was fulfilled in 70 A.D. by the Romans when they destroyed MOST of the stones on the temple mount, or that the Romans only partially... fulfilled that prophecy with having left... some of the stones that still stand there today? -- Musical stones, if you will.

I'm going to go with only PARTIALLY fulfilled in 70 A.D., with the FINAL fulfillment yet to come when Jesus returns in the near future...

 

Randy Kluth

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If it walks like a duck... .

You hold to the mormon belief that the Bible is God's word. Does that make you a Mormon? Some degenerate religious groups believe there's going to be a whole new world in the afterlife. Should I consider that you "quack like a duck," and so belong to such degenerate religious groups?

As I said, the Church Fathers believed in the historical interpretation of Olivet Discourse without sacrificing futurist elements contained in the same. They were *not* Preterists. So please stop slandering me. You claim I'm something that I'm not. And your definition of Preterism isn't at all accurate in this instance.

I don't have to be made 'happy' in order to rightly understand God's Word as written. My emotions have nothing to do with it; my understanding by The Holy Spirit has everything to do with it.

Being peaceable and truthful with other Christians has everything to do with living the Christian life, however.

Oh, I understood your posts alright. It is you that DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the doctrines of men you've latched onto, like the Preterist/Historicist idea that the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans fulfilled Jesus' Olivet discourse.

Again, Preterist belief in the historical interpretation of the Olivet Discourse does not mean that non-Preterist groups don't share the same view in some respects. I do not hold to the elements of Preterism that would make me a Preterist. So why do you bring up Preterism at all? Why not stop trying to mischaracterize my position by inferring that *only belief in the historical view of the Olivet Discourse makes one a Preterist?*

So it's evident to me that either you don't hold to a proper definition of Preterism or you simply wish to label me falsely.

As I said, in order to believe that, then it would mean one MUST believe Jesus' 2nd coming happened in His Apostle's days, and I explained why that is, but here goes once again, and I don't have my anvil today...

Matt 24:32-36
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


Know what is "at the doors"? His coming and gathering of His Church, which was the LAST THING (or Sign) Jesus gave there, and is INCLUDED in "all these things".

I already explained to you that Jesus *excluded his 2nd Coming* from "all these things" because he separated his 2nd Coming from the generation that was to experience "all these things." His focus, explicitly, was on the fall of the temple, and on the "birth pangs" that would precede that event.

Obviously, that is not your position, and I have no interest in belaboring it. If you don't want to properly present my position, then you are choosing to not be cordial or friendly.

Yes, Jesus mentioned his 2nd Coming right before he spoke of the generation that would see "all these things." But in context he had excluded his Coming from his own generation by declaring that it would be at an unknown time following a long exile of the Jewish People.

And so he was referring back to his initial prophecy, that there would be birth pangs leading up to the fall of Jerusalem and the temple. It was therefore "these things" that Jesus indicated would happen "in this generation."
 
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Davy

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We'll see how far they get.

I'm stocked up on popcorn.

I'd say go ahead and fill up on your popcorn now, because when the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem build their 3rd temple under the coming pseudo-Christ, you won't have time to eat popcorn. Or... maybe you will be given even MORE popcorn, IF you agree to bowing to that coming false-Messiah instead of waiting on Jesus to come. Your choice.
 

Randy Kluth

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I didn't slander you, I slandered those FAKES hiding behind the Preterist/Historicist schools. If I rebuked you, it was about your latching onto THEIR false doctrines when you should be listening directly to Jesus in His Word. If that's what you call slander, then it means you feel you are beyond rebuke.

You slander me only if you deliberately mischaracterize my views. I defined Preterism for you, whether Partial or Full Preterism. And I don't fit the bill. So if you continue to declare to others that I'm a PP or Full Preterist, then you're using a false definition of "Preterism," or choosing to deliberately slander me.

Many non-Preterists have believed that Jesus spoke of the fall of the temple in his own generation. This is not necessarily a Preterist view, although Preterists share that view with many others.

You also share a Preterist view. They believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Does that make you a Preterist? No!

So all of those scholars in history who believe in this historical interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, that Jesus spoke predominantly about his own generation, cannot be called Preterists. Your choosing to do so either shows your ignorance or your lack of character. What will it be?
 
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Davy

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If you're using pre-70 AD fulfillment as the test of preterism, then you would have to conclude that:
1. The Judean Christians were preterists, because their flight fulfilling Jesus' prediction occurred before 70 AD.

That idea defies logic, because Jesus included His servants fleeing Judea within "all these things" (Signs) He was giving in His Olivet discourse. You cannot just try to isolate one of those Signs He gave there and apply your 'own' desired timing to it.

2. Jesus was a preterist, because His prediction and its fulfillment in the Judean Christians' flight occurred before 70 AD.

That's funny, "Jesus was a preterist"! Already countered that false idea above. Ain't you got any new material?

3. Matthew, Mark, and Luke were preterists, because they bore record of Jesus' prediction. At least one of their Gospels was written before 70 AD.

There's at least a little preterism in everyone.

Still no new material I see, and that idea about Christ's Apostles being Preterists is even funnier!

Preterism is a doctrine that originated among the Catholic Jesuits around the 16th century.

So it is silly, or even asinine to think all past fulfilled events must be subject to men's theory of Preterism!! Just because certain men like the Jesuits developed a category label based on the word 'preter' which means 'what is past', that doesn't mean they own past history!
 

Davy

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You slander me only if you deliberately mischaracterize my views.

Now you are making stuff up.

I don't mischaracterise 'your' views, because they are NOT YOUR VIEWS! You did NOT come up with the doctrines of men called Preterism/Historicism! Sorry, other men BEAT YOU TO IT!

So get off your cry-baby high hat and own up to YOUR following doctrines of men devised by OTHERS.
 

Davy

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Why didn't you include the next verse's?
Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come to work on the rebuilding of the Temple.....
....

It is because the TIMING context of that Zechariah 6 Chapter (EXCEPT VERSES 12 & 13) is right after the seventy years Babylon captivity when the Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the city and walls and temple.

The Zechariah 6:12-13 verses are parenthetical, like a little pause to give a detail. And that detail involves a FUTURE PROPHECY ONLY to be fulfilled by Lord Jesus Christ. How do we know that?

It is because NO FLESH MAN has ever been a king and a priest upon the throne of David on earth (per Zechariah 6:13). That right is reserved for Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, as "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS".

I'm also surprised you don't realize who "THE BRANCH" is there.

Isa 11:1-2
11 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
KJV


Jer 23:5
5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

KJV

Jer 33:15-16
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith he shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
KJV
 

covenantee

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I'd say go ahead and fill up on your popcorn now, because when the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem build their 3rd temple under the coming pseudo-Christ, you won't have time to eat popcorn. Or... maybe you will be given even MORE popcorn, IF you agree to bowing to that coming false-Messiah instead of waiting on Jesus to come. Your choice.

The Christians enjoyed their popcorn in 363 AD watching God's Divine Fury destroy that temple.

I'll be enjoying mine if the time comes again.
 

covenantee

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Now you are making stuff up.

I don't mischaracterise 'your' views, because they are NOT YOUR VIEWS! You did NOT come up with the doctrines of men called Preterism/Historicism! Sorry, other men BEAT YOU TO IT!

So get off your cry-baby high hat and own up to YOUR following doctrines of men devised by OTHERS.

Neither are your views, your views.

They are the views of the futurism spawned in the the counterfeit counter-reformation of the 16th century apostasized papacy.

"So get off your cry-baby high hat and own up to YOUR following doctrines of men devised by OTHERS."
 

Davy

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You hold to the mormon belief that the Bible is God's word. Does that make you a Mormon? Some degenerate religious groups believe there's going to be a whole new world in the afterlife. Should I consider that you "quack like a duck," and so belong to such degenerate religious groups?

FINALLY! The false Jew's strategy of bearing FALSE WITNESS comes out in you!!

It is utterly stupid to call me a Mormon, of which I certainly am not! So what does trying to call me that prove? It proves that you have LOST YOUR CREDIBILITY IN GOD'S WORD, not to be trusted with His Word, AND... that you have to RESORT TO BEARING FALSE WITNESS in attempting to boost yourself over those like myself!

You are just another FAKE that comes to Christian forums to push the false Jew's teachings.
 

Davy

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Feb 11, 2018
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You slander me only if you deliberately mischaracterize my views. I defined Preterism for you, whether Partial or Full Preterism. And I don't fit the bill. So if you continue to declare to others that I'm a PP or Full Preterist, then you're using a false definition of "Preterism," or choosing to deliberately slander me.
....

Er... so says a FALSE JEW pushing men's false leaven doctrines against God's written Word.
 

MatthewG

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People should be allowed freedom to be in liberty to believe how they will, by the Holy Spirit and reading the scripture.

to condemn others or shun them because they are different in perspective of you,

is not the love God desires for us to show and be towards others!

Be cautious and remember not to forget we all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.

don’t forget about the Lord Jesus who went to the cross for us all, and allows us to have access to God through him by faith in the death, burial, and resurrection!

Love you! Pray and give thankfulness to God who gives us victory over sin and death in Christ.
 

covenantee

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I didn't slander you, I slandered those FAKES hiding behind the Preterist/Historicist schools. If I rebuked you, it was about your latching onto THEIR false doctrines when you should be listening directly to Jesus in His Word. If that's what you call slander, then it means you feel you are beyond rebuke.

And congratulations! on being 'some' of those seminary school categories! I ain't NONE of them. And that's why their followers get confused when trying to label me in one of their insane categories. Stick to God's Word as written, and ALL... of those seminary categories just fall by the wayside. Remember Jesus' leaven fragments warning (Mark 8:15-21).


How Jesus' "... not be left here one stone upon another..." prophecy is for the LAST generation also:

It's called the Wailing Wall, huge stones atop another are still there at the temple mount today!

So do we sing the old Jimmy Durante performance of Should I Stay, Or Should I Go song with saying that was fulfilled in 70 A.D. by the Romans when they destroyed MOST of the stones on the temple mount, or that the Romans only partially... fulfilled that prophecy with having left... some of the stones that still stand there today? -- Musical stones, if you will.

I'm going to go with only PARTIALLY fulfilled in 70 A.D., with the FINAL fulfillment yet to come when Jesus returns in the near future...


The Wailing Wall & Evidence for the Real Site of the Temple in Jerusalem - Christian Observer