Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[ChristisGod]

1Jn 4:1 Chaverim, do not believe every ruach. [YIRMEYAH 29:8] But test the ruchot (spirits), if they be of Hashem, because many nevi'ei sheker have gone out into the Olam Hazeh.
OJB


Jer 29:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
Jer 29:9 For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.

J.

nice dodge lol

 

[Taken]

So you are incapable to commit a misdeed in word, thought and deed?
Correct?!
J.

I am NOT ALL KNOWING, nor proclaim such a notion.

IF there is some “misdeed” Thought...that comes to my MIND, TOWARD men, I have a Remedy, Acceptable to the Lord God.

IF there is some “misdeed” I commit...ie a TRESPASS, TOWARD men. I have a Remedy, Acceptable to the Lord God.

I Think no “misdeed” toward The Lord God.
I COMMIT no “misdeed” to The Lord God.

 

[Episkopos]

So you are incapable to commit a misdeed in word, thought and deed?
Correct?!
J.

I'm just as human as the next fellow. But the good news is that through Christ we can walk in a way that is pleasing to God. We can be IN Christ and walk as He walked. Do you believe that through Christ all things become possible for us? Even you!

The upward call is to all who believe.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Robert Gwin I edited my post #779

Link:
Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

I erroneously answered “no” to your question. In a rush I missed that you said “don’t sin” rather than “do sin”.

 

[Johann]

So you deny that Christ came to TAKE AWAY sin?

What did he do then, come to provide a cloak for it?

What says the “genitive possession” genie?

What is the Keswick movement, and is it biblical?
Keswick movement
audio
ANSWER

The Keswick movement, also called the Higher Life movement, is a theological movement that originated in England in the early 19th century. It was heavily influenced by the teachings of John Wesley, John William Fletcher, and Adam Clarke. Since 1875 promoters have organized the annual Keswick Convention. Various Christian leaders have been involved in the Keswick Convention through the years, including missionaries Hudson Taylor and Amy Carmichael, devotional writer Oswald Chambers, and evangelist Billy Graham.

Essentially, Keswick theology teaches that the Christian life consists of two primary crises (or major turning points): justification and sanctification, both of which happen at different times in the life of the believer. After salvation one must have another encounter with the Spirit; otherwise, he or she will not progress into holiness or the “deeper” things of God. This second encounter with the Spirit, in Keswick terminology, is called “entire sanctification,” “the second blessing,” or “the second touch.” This emphasis on a second, post-salvation experience corresponds with the Pentecostal idea of the “baptism” of the Spirit. Some Keswick teachers would even say that sinless perfection is possible after one receives the “second blessing.”

Although it is true that both justification (i.e., getting saved) and sanctification (i.e., becoming more like Christ) are vital aspects of the Christian life, overemphasizing the distinction between them tends to produce two different “classes” of Christian—those who are not being sanctified and those who are being sanctified. Moreover, according to Keswick theology, we can decide which camp we belong in, and the initiation of sanctification is something that depends on us after we are saved.

The tendency for theological error resulting from overemphasizing one side of a debate versus another has been demonstrated time and time again throughout church history. For example, the well-known debate between Calvinists and Arminians is frequently seen (somewhat inaccurately) as a “conflict” between God’s sovereignty and man’s autonomous free will. Many on both sides of this debate have a tendency to overemphasize one side of this “conflict” to the exclusion of the other. Those who emphasize God’s sovereignty tend to minimize human volition, while those who emphasize man’s ability to choose end up burdening themselves and others with the charge to behave perfectly before the Lord. In reality, both God’s sovereignty and man’s volition must be held in tension with one another, because both are taught in Scripture.

In the same way, Keswick theologians take a very real and biblical distinction between justification and sanctification and press it too far. Scripture tells us that all those who are saved (justified) are also being sanctified. God promises to finish the work He began in us (Philippians 1:6).

“But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification” (Romans 6:22, NASB). We are freed from sin by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, but our freedom must lead to holiness (sanctification), not further sin. Rather, Paul tells us that we are “to consider [ourselves] to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus” (Romans 6:11, NASB). The picture that we see painted in these verses is that it is impossible for the believer to persist in sin, once he or she has truly entered into a relationship with Christ. Keswick theology says that one could be a genuine Christian and still say something like, “I have been justified, but I am not being sanctified, because I don’t see the need to be right now. I’m a Christian, surely; I’m just not as dedicated as others might be.” Of course, Scripture tells us that such an attitude is really evidence that the person speaking is not a believer (1 John 2:3–4). As a result, Keswick theology may give false assurance of salvation to those who refuse to submit to the Word of God but still want to think of themselves as truly saved.

Sanctification is a long, gradual, and sometimes tortuous process, and it is something that all believers will experience, not just those who have a “second touch” of the Spirit. The Keswick movement has some commendable points—an emphasis on the lordship of Christ and personal holiness, discipleship, and a promotion of missionary activity. And some historic evangelistic efforts have begun at Keswick Conventions. However, Keswick theology’s insistence on a “second blessing,” its hierarchy of “sanctified” Christians vs. those who are “only justified,” and its bent toward the unbiblical doctrine of entire sanctification are causes of concern.

What is the Keswick movement, and is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org.

 

[Taken]

I said no such thing.

So? I never said you did SAY such thing.

Not at all, for:

“…by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14)

But these SAME perfected ones are also warned IN THE SAME CHAPTER that:

NO.

“…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

RECEIVING KNOWLEDGE...is NOT RECEIVING SANCTIFICATION!


Do you think because you received KNOWLEDGE...
God bless you with SANCTIFICATION? No.

The Devil himself is FULL Scriptural KNOWLEDGE...
Men who HEAR and READ Scripture are steeped in KNOWLEDGE...

So what? YOU are completely IGNORING that little thingy of CONFESSING ones Heartful BELIEF to the Lord God.

Don’t you get...God is offering A CONTRACT, between HIM and every individual man....THAT “CONTRACT”, has NO FORCE OR EFFECT...until a man “AGREES” to accept Gods Offering.

Do you think every time your bank offers you a loan...who are HELD to the terms of the LOAN....without you AGREEING to Accept the Loan?

Do you think the Govt Offering their endless “FREEBIES”...are given men WHO DO NOT AGREE to “TAKE” their freebies?

DO you NOT KNOW...ONCE you ACCEPT what an other OFFERS...
It is up to you, to KNOW, the terms, what it means, “IF” you agree to ACCEPT the Offering?

Banks OFFER LOANS all day long.
So? I do not borrow. Their offers are irrelevant to me.

Gov’t OFFERS umpteen “so call FREEBIES” (right after they force compelled THEFT of other people’s wealth)...
I do not EVER Take one cent of their ILL Gotten, Dirty Scams.

God OFFERED me a Glorious Offer, That I could TAKE ONCE and HAVE FOREVER. I accepted and agreed to His OFFERING.
THUS, what Scripturally APPLIES to any man WHO Accepts His Offering, Applies to me.
Scriptures that applies to men WHO DO NOT ACCEPT His Offering...
DO not Apply to me.

 

[Taken]

@Robert Gwin I edited my post #779

I erroneously answered “no” to your question. In a rush I missed that you said “don’t sin” rather than “do sin”.

Okay. Resolved. No issue.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What is the Keswick movement

I do not know.

I do not care.

What saith the Lord?

 

[Episkopos]

What is the Keswick movement, and is it biblical?
Keswick movement
audio
ANSWER

The Keswick movement, also called the Higher Life movement, is a theological movement that originated in England in the early 19th century. It was heavily influenced by the teachings of John Wesley, John William Fletcher, and Adam Clarke. Since 1875 promoters have organized the annual Keswick Convention. Various Christian leaders have been involved in the Keswick Convention through the years, including missionaries Hudson Taylor and Amy Carmichael, devotional writer Oswald Chambers, and evangelist Billy Graham.

Essentially, Keswick theology teaches that the Christian life consists of two primary crises (or major turning points): justification and sanctification, both of which happen at different times in the life of the believer. After salvation one must have another encounter with the Spirit; otherwise, he or she will not progress into holiness or the “deeper” things of God. This second encounter with the Spirit, in Keswick terminology, is called “entire sanctification,” “the second blessing,” or “the second touch.” This emphasis on a second, post-salvation experience corresponds with the Pentecostal idea of the “baptism” of the Spirit. Some Keswick teachers would even say that sinless perfection is possible after one receives the “second blessing.”

Although it is true that both justification (i.e., getting saved) and sanctification (i.e., becoming more like Christ) are vital aspects of the Christian life, overemphasizing the distinction between them tends to produce two different “classes” of Christian—those who are not being sanctified and those who are being sanctified. Moreover, according to Keswick theology, we can decide which camp we belong in, and the initiation of sanctification is something that depends on us after we are saved.

The tendency for theological error resulting from overemphasizing one side of a debate versus another has been demonstrated time and time again throughout church history. For example, the well-known debate between Calvinists and Arminians is frequently seen (somewhat inaccurately) as a “conflict” between God’s sovereignty and man’s autonomous free will. Many on both sides of this debate have a tendency to overemphasize one side of this “conflict” to the exclusion of the other. Those who emphasize God’s sovereignty tend to minimize human volition, while those who emphasize man’s ability to choose end up burdening themselves and others with the charge to behave perfectly before the Lord. In reality, both God’s sovereignty and man’s volition must be held in tension with one another, because both are taught in Scripture.

In the same way, Keswick theologians take a very real and biblical distinction between justification and sanctification and press it too far. Scripture tells us that all those who are saved (justified) are also being sanctified. God promises to finish the work He began in us (Philippians 1:6).

“But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification” (Romans 6:22, NASB). We are freed from sin by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, but our freedom must lead to holiness (sanctification), not further sin. Rather, Paul tells us that we are “to consider [ourselves] to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus” (Romans 6:11, NASB). The picture that we see painted in these verses is that it is impossible for the believer to persist in sin, once he or she has truly entered into a relationship with Christ. Keswick theology says that one could be a genuine Christian and still say something like, “I have been justified, but I am not being sanctified, because I don’t see the need to be right now. I’m a Christian, surely; I’m just not as dedicated as others might be.” Of course, Scripture tells us that such an attitude is really evidence that the person speaking is not a believer (1 John 2:3–4). As a result, Keswick theology may give false assurance of salvation to those who refuse to submit to the Word of God but still want to think of themselves as truly saved.

Sanctification is a long, gradual, and sometimes tortuous process, and it is something that all believers will experience, not just those who have a “second touch” of the Spirit. The Keswick movement has some commendable points—an emphasis on the lordship of Christ and personal holiness, discipleship, and a promotion of missionary activity. And some historic evangelistic efforts have begun at Keswick Conventions. However, Keswick theology’s insistence on a “second blessing,” its hierarchy of “sanctified” Christians vs. those who are “only justified,” and its bent toward the unbiblical doctrine of entire sanctification are causes of concern.

What is the Keswick movement, and is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org.

LOL.

Entire sanctification began at Pentecost. Revivals of truth happen from time to time. But these don't last because of unbelief.

Because the status quo is carnal...most take refuge in their carnality...thinking that the kingdom of God goes to those who have the most votes. Ignorance of God's ways leads to false claims which in turn leads to being rejected by God.

Humility is far better. Better to question what one has been taught and weigh that against the scriptures...not just a selected portion...but the whole counsel of God. Nobody who does this can remain indoctrinated. it is the indoctrination that enables people to willfully ignore the words of God.

 

[marks]

So my sin was an immature fruit of the Spirit.

Sinful spiritual fruit, I don't understand that idea.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

If they had not attained it then they are still good for repentance in the future. But not the guy Peter was talking about.

Peter was speaking of the terms of the parable given by Jesus, wherein such a person, having [only] been swept clean had not yet attained salvation and therefore could end up worse off for not receiving what was good that they should be filled with Christ rather than left open to the devil.

 

[Johann]

LOL.

Entire sanctification began at Pentecost. Revivals of truth happen from time to time. But these don't last because of unbelief.

Because the status quo is carnal...most take refuge in their carnality...thinking that the kingdom of God goes to those who have the most votes. Ignorance of God's ways leads to false claims which in turn leads to being rejected by God.

Humility is far better. Better to question what one has been taught and weigh that against the scriptures...not just a selected portion...but the whole counsel of God. Nobody who does this can remain indoctrinated. it is the indoctrination that enables people to willfully ignore the words of God.

And that's your problem, sanctification and justification is a once off momentous, glorious graceful ACT of YHVH in our behalf, you, however, are adding to scripture, taking away from scripture, leading others astray bishop.
sanctification is progressive, Present Tense, a once of act is Aorist/Perfect..but you guys don't see it.
Can you tame your tongue? According to James, no.
Don't meddle and peddle with the scriptures and you don't preach the whole counsel of God because you don't know it.
J.

 

[Johann]

I do not know.

I do not care.

What saith the Lord?

...says Tovia Singer, and promptly spreading lies, hither and thither, from the Bible.
J.

 

[Johann]

I do not know.

I do not care.
To your peril, I might add.
What saith the Lord?

 

[ChristisGod]

And that's your problem, sanctification and justification is a once off momentous, glorious graceful ACT of YHVH in our behalf, you, however, are adding to scripture, taking away from scripture, leading others astray bishop.
sanctification is progressive, Present Tense, a once of act is Aorist/Perfect..but you guys don't see it.
Can you tame your tongue? According to James, no.
Don't meddle and peddle with the scriptures and you don't preach the whole counsel of God because you don't know it.
J.

You can’t control what you say ?

You think before you speak right ?

You can think a critical thought yet not say it to the person .

 

[marks]

I have yet to see anyone affirm " sinless perfection "

Can you quote anyone who affirms it ?

I've run into some who claim it. Some even say so outright, not like ones here that caveat what sin is so they can still make the claim, like saying, "I don't sin (lawless sins / sins unto death). No, I don't sin!"

Most seem content to allow the innuendo to hang in the air . . . "Why sin? Don't you believe? You don't have to sin, you too can be sanctified!" So you can go on to think "How spiritual is the man who says we don't have to sin, I guess he/she doesn't, right?"

I find this discussion to be rife with ignorance, deceipt, and spiritual pride.

We're not qualified judges of ourselves, and should spend our time on more productive pursuits that to argue about whether or not we still sin, and to treat as inferior those who have the humility to acknowledge that they still commit sins.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

You can’t control what you say ?

You think before you speak right ?

You can think a critical thought yet not say it to the person .

Listen up, I sin daily, and I confess my sins/trespasses..do you?
J.

 

[ChristisGod]

Listen up, I sin daily, and I confess my sins/trespasses..do you?
J.

You missed the point . We teach our children not to sass their parents and the listen and obey . So those with the spirit can control what comes out of their mouths and bless others and not curse them . Build them up not put them down . Bless those who curse you .

 

[Episkopos]

And that's your problem, sanctification and justification is a once off momentous, glorious graceful ACT of YHVH in our behalf, you, however, are adding to scripture, taking away from scripture, leading others astray bishop.
sanctification is progressive, Present Tense, a once of act is Aorist/Perfect..but you guys don't see it.
Can you tame your tongue? According to James, no.
Don't meddle and peddle with the scriptures and you don't preach the whole counsel of God because you don't know it.
J.

"But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" 1 Cor. 1:30

Look what you get instantly by entering into Christ...

wisdom: knowing the Lord puts everything in its rightful perspective.

righteousness: In Him we walk as He walked...at the level of the righteousness of God. There is NO sin in God's righteousness. His righteousness is NOT as filthy rags.

sanctification: We can only be holy by entering into He that is already holy. Jesus Christ IS our holiness when we enter INTO Him. We will NEVER be more holy than when we abide in Christ. To think that we can increase in sanctification beyond abiding in Christ is anathema.

redemption: We are redeemed from this world of sin into the heavenly walk in God's eternal light by abiding in Christ.

Notice it doesn't say maturity or the full stature of Christ. That kind of salvation must be worked out with fear and trembling.

 

[Johann]

You missed the point . We teach our children not to sass their parents and the listen and obey . So those with the spirit can control what comes out of their mouths and bless others and not curse them . Build them up not put them down . Bless those who curse you .

Ne, anyone here can claim they have the Holy Spirit, do they?
J.