What if you lose your faith?

[GEN2REV]

It does say that:

"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" 1 John 3:9-10​

The person who lives in sin is not born again. You would have to go back to unbelief, or have never believed, in order to live in sin. I want everyone reading this, especially struggling saints to know that this is not talking about the believer's sincere struggle with a besetting sin in a kind of 'seventy times seven' relationship with God.

No the Bible does NOT say that a Christian is supernaturally incapable of sinning. That is for when we receive our Glorious incorruptible Bodies. That time has most certainly not come yet for ANY Christian.

Yes, Christians are to strive to avoid sin with all they have, but that is not the same as saying a Christian CANNOT sin. Regardless of whether they believe, or are saved by Christ's blood, or not.

It makes no difference. Christians are CAPABLE of sinning and offending the Holy Spirit in their stumbling.

That is what James 3:2 is talking about.

 

[GEN2REV]

What I believe is that a believer can become an unbeliever and on that basis be rejected by God. No believing person is ever rejected by God. You have to go back to unbelief, or have never believed, in order to be rejected by God. As long as you are believing in the blood of Christ you are accepted by God. Living in sin is not what believing people do. Ex-believers live in sin. You have to go back to unbelief to end your relationship with God. Returning to a lifestyle of wanton, unrepentant, willful sin is the sign that you have done that. That is the sign of an unbeliever, not a believer. That is what the Bible says.

I've heard many preposterous explanations of John 15:2 & John 15:6.

So, ... let's hear your ridiculous interpretation of it because you clearly don't agree with what Jesus states there.

And, for the record, to be "IN Jesus", one must already be believing at a minimum.

 

[Johann]

No the Bible does NOT say that a Christian is supernaturally incapable of sinning. That is for when we receive our Glorious incorruptible Bodies. That time has most certainly not come yet for ANY Christian.

Yes, Christians are to strive to avoid sin with all they have, but that is not the same as saying a Christian CANNOT sin. Regardless of whether they believe, or are saved by Christ's blood, or not. '

It makes no difference. Christians are CAPABLE of sinning and offending the Holy Spirit in their stumbling.

That is what James 3:2 is talking about.

Yup, I am in full agreement with you here yet we have many "sinless ones" on this platform.
As you rightly said, we have not reached our final redemption, the redemption of our bodies.


Heb 12:3 For consider him that hath endured such gainsaying of sinners against themselves, that ye wax not weary, fainting in your souls.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin:
Heb 12:5 and ye have forgotten the exhortation, which reasoneth with you as with sons, My son, regard not lightly the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art reproved of him;
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 It is for chastening that ye endure; God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye are without chastening, whereof all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous, but grievous: yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.
Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands that hang down, and the palsied knees;
Heb 12:13 and make straight paths for your feet, that that which is lame be not turned out of the way, but rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 looking carefully lest there be any man that falleth short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby the many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one mess of meat sold his own birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected (for he found no place of repentance), though he sought it diligently with tears.

J.

 

[GEN2REV]

It does. For the believer sin separates them from intimacy with God. For the unbeliever sin separates them from a relationship with God altogether. Like in a marriage, strife and distance damage the relationship, but only adultery and abandonment end it altogether (if that's what they want). And so it is in Christ. When we leave our wet towels on the floor of the bathroom or pass gas in the living room, spiritually speaking, it doesn't end our relationship with God. It puts it on ice but it does not end it. Only committing adultery or moving out of the house ends our relationship with God.

Yes, sin is held against us in the sense that I've just been speaking about. It damages intimacy with God. But it does not damage our righteous standing with God, because we are believers. The believing person has the ministry and sacrifice he believes and trusts in continually cleansing him of the legal guilt he would otherwise accrue every time he sinned (Hebrews 7:25). God deals with the intimacy and relational fallout from our sin, but the legal aspect of our relationship with God is firmly established in our oneness with God, just as that is true in a legal marriage.

There's just no arguing with somebody who has been brainwashed to believe that Christians have attained spiritual perfection from the moment they are saved.

There's just no getting through to you.

That is not even close to what the Bible teaches, but it is exactly why so many will say 'Lord, Lord' on the day that He returns and will be rejected.

He has done all that He possibly can to get through to the world.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[GEN2REV]

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin:

Thanks Johann.

This verse here was perfect. I'll have to remember this one in my many future battles against this very commonly held false doctrine.

SO MANY professed Christians are convinced that we do not have to strive at all, for any reason.

They are lost.

Casualties of the enemy's successful campaign against the Truth.

 

[Johann]

This verse here was perfect. I'll have to remember this one in my many future battles against this very commonly held false doctrine.

Still learning gen2.
J.

 

[GodsGrace]

Present your body a living sacrifice.....sure......that is your discipleship that you perform, because you are saved, not to try to be saved or stay saved.

If your works can't save you to begin with..., then not doing any can't cause you to lose Salvation, as salvation is not based on your works.... Its only based on THE CROSS.

As usual...
No verses.

What do you do?
Bunch them up in the OP and then forget about it?

 

[GodsGrace]

@Ferris Bueller @GodsGrace

You all are doing great! Not that they are going to learn anything. Those that hate the truth. They know that the scriptures are their enemy. As you have noted, not to many scriptures to support their beliefs. What Christians should do is use Christ as an example... love God and love one another....be good and do good. You do not see them sighting Christ as their example....Anti-Bible...Anti-Christ.

James was talking truth....Christianity in motion, morality, and character. James was not one of the twelve Apostles but he may of heard Christ's Words regarding the parable of the Sheep and Goats and the Good Samaritan. He understood the most simple message of Christ and it isn't that the OSAS people do not understand this, they stand against Christ and all He stood for, so they have to stand against the scriptures also....Can you imagine believing in a religion that you have to explain away and ignore so many scriptures...it has to be a depressing religion to twist and ignore so many scriptures. A lot of effort to stand against Christ.

In a military court martial you are not sentenced....you are awarded....and what they are going to get....they deserve because they earned it!

How many ways can you go to hell? Unbelief and you can certainly sin your way to hell. But Christ made it clear you can go to hell for not doing Good Deeds....The people in those parables went to hell for not helping those in need. And He made it clear that helping those people who were in need was like helping Him. What we do matters to Christ and what we do, we do to please Him.
I have already posted the scriptures that say we should try to please God.

And you all are doing right as if you are writing to those that read along.....how many people can you save? Seeds....Christ speaks of seeds in the scriptures....and that is why I call my ministry the Johnny Appleseed of Truth. Truth has power...not that we have power, the seed of Truth have power....we sow them and from there it up to the Holy Spirit to inspire the hearts of those that are faithful and seek Truth. Be good and do good.

Amen to that.

To change the world, it is not enough to eliminate evil...
It's necessary to let the good enter.

@BloodBought 1953 likes songs...here's one:

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could've been any clearer
If they wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change
M. Jackson

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I've noticed that some OSASers do not show love for their brethren.
Not all.



The First thing that happened to me when I got Saved many years ago was having a strong desire to hang around other Believers....* BELIEVING* people— NOT “ religious “ people ...

Nothing has changed—- I LOVE True Christians and can’t stand Religious people....

True Brethren I love ....the Bible warns against “ FALSE” Brethren and THOSE are the ones I have a problem with....

When Paul spoke to True Gospel Believers in the Book Of Galatians , he warned about “ Some That Trouble You” That had entered the Church....He was referring to Legalists and Religionists that sew doubt about Salvation and insist on Adding to the Gospel Of Pure Grace....He did not say to “ Love” these types—— to the contrary , he said to “ Cast Them Out” , comparing them to Hagar and Ishmael —- these two represent those that are still “ Slaves to the Law” while those that please God today are those that are “ Free in Christ”—— I am disgusted by the former and find myself Loving the Latter....That is what you see me play out in these Forums ...It’s the same in Real Life for me too .....

I got all kinds of “ Love” to give—-My True Brothers receive it....If you are merely a “ Religionist” —- go away!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The Bible was not written to unbelievers

If this is True, how does an “UN” Believer become a Believer.....

Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus is what Saves—-

This Mandatory FAITH —— How does one receive it ? ....” Faith comes by hearing...hearing the Word Of God”.....the Unbeliever can “ hear” with his eyes by reading the Bible....Read the First Chapter Of Romans —- it was written to Unbelievers to shake them up and wake them and show them they were wretched Sinners that needed a Savior.....by far, it is not the only chapter of the Bible that was talking to Lost people out there in the World....

 

[GodsGrace]

The day that you understand that being born again, is why your Salvation is not based on you trying not to lose it, will be the day you understand The Cross.
But not till then.

You capitalize The Cross.
Are you A of G?

They do not believe OSAS is true.

 

[Dropship]

I've noticed that some OSASers do not show love for their brethren.
Not all.
The First thing that happened to me when I got Saved many years ago was having a strong desire to hang around other Believers....* BELIEVING* people— NOT “ religious “ people ...
Nothing has changed—- I LOVE True Christians and can’t stand Religious people....

Yes, a fool in a dog collar or a fool who's a theology college graduate or a fool who's a regular churchgoer is still just a fool..
Like you, I only prefer to associate with true Christian "iron men" and women-
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Proverbs 27:17)

I know a middleaged street preacher who associates with assorted fools of many faiths and atheists and he admits they make him feel weak, tired and drained, so I drew his attention to this verse-
"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Proverbs 13:20)
and told him they're having the same effect on him as kryptonite has on Superman, but he thinks it's his "duty" to mix with them, just as "Jesus mixed with sinners."
So I told him that's fine up to a point, but to get away from them and their bad unholy vibes if they won't listen-
"Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words" (Proverbs 23:9)
"If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them" (Mark 6:11)
and I think he's beginning to see sense..

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't find "to activate the Holy Spirit" in my bible.
Perhaps you can give me scripture references as to HOW to activate, like a switch, the Holy Spirit?
J.

Like a switch?
I really dislike argumentative posts .

This has nothing to do with soteriology, which is worthy of debate, so peace to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, a fool in a dog collar or a fool who's a theology college graduate or a fool who's a regular churchgoer is still just a fool..
Like you, I only prefer to associate with true Christian "iron men" and women-
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Proverbs 27:17)

I know a middleaged street preacher who associates with assorted fools of many faiths and atheists and he admits they make him feel weak, tired and drained, so I drew his attention to this verse-
"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Proverbs 13:20)
and told him they're having the same effect on him as kryptonite has on Superman, but he thinks it's his "duty" to mix with them, just as "Jesus mixed with sinners."
So I told him that's fine up to a point, but to get away from them and their bad unholy vibes if they won't listen-
"Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words" (Proverbs 23:9)
"If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them" (Mark 6:11)
and I think he's beginning to see sense..

Do you think there is any danger in believing and espousing this eternal security idea, no matter what.
??

I feel it's a dangerous belief and that it could spread because it seems so easy to just believe.

Jesus said to consider our discipleship:
Luke 14:27-30
27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’


Jesus is saying not everyone will be able to finish.
I think this is an important message.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Jesus is saying not everyone will be able to finish.
I think this is an important message.



Here’s another Important message.....

Jesus said “ Without ME , you can do NOTHING “
Jesus ALSO said, “ With GOD....ALL THINGS are Possible”

God Promised that HE would “ FINISH” what HE started!” Believing that Promise can remove a lot of Needless anxiety....works for me....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God Promised that HE would “ FINISH” what HE started!” Believing that Promise can remove a lot of Needless anxiety....works for me.

It works for everybody. The sure promises of God are for believing people, not for people who fall away in unbelief.

 

[Dropship]

Do you think there is any danger in believing and espousing this eternal security idea, no matter what.??
I feel it's a dangerous belief and that it could spread because it seems so easy to just believe.
Jesus said to consider our discipleship:
Luke 14:27-30
27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
Jesus is saying not everyone will be able to finish.
I think this is an important message.

I agree, nobody can truly know if they're saved, so all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and hope we make the grade..
All we know for sure is that Jesus-rejecters can NEVER make the grade and will go up the spout.
"The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18)
They don't want God, so he certainly doesn't want them..

 

[BloodBought 1953]

How many ways can you go to hell? Unbelief and you can certainly sin your way to hell.


Here is one that you conveniently left out—- Those That Preach a “ Gospel” that differs from Paul’s Gospel Of Grace ...

You don’t Believe the Gospel.....you know, that 1st part where it says that “ Jesus DIED FOR YOUR SINS”.....Seeing how that statement is True, what sins could you commit that would send you to Hell?

Seeing how you do not “ Believe” the True Gospel Of Grace That Paul preached, there is NO WAY you can promote one that isn’t “ False and Perverted”, thus qualifying you as one that merely “ Troubles” the True Body Of Christ and because you cause all of those that buy into your Hog Wash to “Fall From Grace”, You yourself are “ Accursed”.....Do I have to tell you what “ That” means? Anybody here is welcome to Read Galatians ( Especially Gal1:8) and tell me that I am wrong...

 

[GTW27]

How can one lose their faith once The Lord enters in. Faith is a gift. The Gifts do not leave as The Lord does not leave us.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Hebrews 7:23-25
22so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

23The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
24but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

No matter what post you choose BB, it never says what you think it says.
Those WHO DRAW NEAR TO GOD through Jesus will be saved.
NOT those who walk away from God.
They have lost their security.


BTW, the above also speaks of how the New Covenant is better.
Could you explain the difference between the Old (Mosaic) Covenant and the New Covenant?

Does the OC require obedience and the NC does not?
Or is the difference something else?

The Old Covenant was of The Law.....It was great ! It was perfect ! However , God “ Found fault “ in it ! ....why? ....because all it could do in the end was “ Point Out” sin.....it was “ weak and useless” in the sense that it had “NO *POWER* TO SAVE!” Paul said that the Law was Good, ONLY when people knew how to use it....

The New Covenant shows us how to properly use That Old Testament Law ....it was given to show us that Nobody can keep it 24/7 and therefore we need a Savior.....Jesus is that Savior , of course, ....Trusting HIM and Showing That Trust, or Faith in Him is Done by Believing His Gospel Of Grace Found in 1 Cor15:1-4..... It was the “ Mystery” , first revealed to Paul personally and it was then delivered to mankind....As I said, the Law had “ No Power to Save” .....the “ POWER” is in the Gospel—- Rest in THAT—- the Crux Of The New Covenant and God has promised to Save you “ To the UTTERMOST! Now, *THAT* is POWER! Best get you Some Of that—-REST in the Finished Work Of The Cross !