Why don’t you believe Satan has been defeated?

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stunnedbygrace

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That is the truth, if people do not believe that Jesus has returned.

Then basically they need to adhere to everything in the scriptures and go by it directly and fully because the view takes on that the Bible was written to us directly today. It was not.

I am not being passive aggressive I am being honest.

Got it. It is the truth you are telling that if one does not accept your eschatological view then they are being dishonest.
I’m going to stop here because I’m seriously questioning if I might be dealing with something I’m not aware of like behavioral or learning issues.
 
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MatthewG

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Got it. It is the truth you are telling that if one does not accept your eschatological view then they are being dishonest.
I’m going to stop here because I’m seriously questioning if I might be dealing with something I’m not aware of like behavioral or learning issues.

No it just means they have a different perspective. There is nothing wrong with that at all...

God has allowed this creating us to the ability to choose and think for oneself.

God is good.
 

stunnedbygrace

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You keep coming back to me @stunnedbygrace...

I am not trying to downplay anyone here, nor have I call you any names or anyone here.

So whatever your problem is please give it to God.

All these people on here as far as I know love God from their heart... I haven't said people aren't saved because what they think and choose to do or anything like that...

What is your problem with me deciding to be honest? Jesus was honest with others, and people got offended just as much... I don't care what people decide to believe, what I do care about is having love for others... and not downplaying them or calling them names or talking behind there back... all that is just child play and worldly and fleshly.

We have a choice every day, to live by the flesh or die to the flesh and live by the spirit and have love as defined in (1 Corinthians 13).

Oh my gosh…”whatever my problem is”, right…
 
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stunnedbygrace

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No it just means they have a different perspective. There is nothing wrong with that at all...

God has allowed this creating us to the ability to choose and think for oneself.

God is good.

That is some pretty fancy backpedaling there! First you were just choosing to be honest by stating it was true we weren’t being honest if we didn’t believe as you did that Jesus had already returned. Now it just means we have a different perspective and you never said we were dishonest. Does this gaslighting ever work for you on anyone…??
 

stunnedbygrace

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No it just means they have a different perspective.

Okay, if you think it makes you save face to now claim you never said what you quite clearly said, I’ll just drop it. you’d just serve me more twisty pretzels and word salad under the soft glow of gaslight anyway if I didn’t, and I’m sick to death of it.
 

MatthewG

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I never said anyone was being dishonest, you brought that up yourself, ma'am.

Though truly in what I said : If people do not believe that Jesus has come back - which he proclaimed he was coming back, and his apostles said he was coming back, and the people were waiting for his return in his day in age. Then that is being intellectually dishonest with the text itself.

Because those things are true and facts.

I do not mind what people believe, but for me I believe what Jesus Christ said was true. What I believe has happened over the course of 2000 years is people have been taught traditions and that is what people hold on to. People can hold on to those traditions whatever they are if they desire, however from what scripture says man is shakable. Their opinions, their ideas, even their faith is shakable.

Some people who are brought up old - yet new truths to look at that goes against their traditions normally they will shoot it down because it goes against what they traditionally have been taught growing up from being in church, taught by mom, dad, and friends.

For me, if I was to say, yes Jesus did not return would make me be intellectually dishonest with others because the Bible proclaims it to be true, and the truth too also is they were all living and breathing human beings, who had faith and lived lives had friends, had family, had jobs, and had enemies... it was a very real world that Jesus was living in, and the apostles, and those were persecuted during the time the Revelation was sent out to the seven Churches in Asia Minor.

What else should I say? No your right, Jesus hasn't come back yet. -- This is were the different perspectives comes in.

As stated before - I do not care what people believe and it is knowledge that puffs up, but love that edifies.

I do not see myself better than anyone else on this board just because I have a bizarre belief that people do not know much about at all, unless they have done the research and searched it out from themselves, I am a minority here, and I love all of these people on this board for who they are and would not condemn them or try to down play them though I have much in the past.

God has changed me a lot... I use to swing the bat at peoples faces with scripture and I am right and your wrong, but being intellectually honest about the text, Jesus return for them then still stands in the face of those who are against the notion... I can not help it.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I never said anyone was being dishonest, you brought that up yourself, ma'am.

Nope. You said it. I called you on it after you did.

But you say you never said it, then you take a breath and proceed to now say in your second paragraph, “intellectually dishonest” rather than the first “dishonest.” You are unbelievably bound up. I think you actually believe you can get away with this nonsense and that anyone being mature and having their senses trained to discern good from evil is just a biblical myth!
 
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MatthewG

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I am just a fallible human being communing with another fallible human being @stunnedbygrace

In times like these we just have to let things go. You know I remember several times where people have had a problem with me and this always something that happens we go back and forth back and forth, happened last night actually.

I don't know if I have offended you or not but I apologize, because I do not know if it will happen again or not.

What our focus should be on is not each others and our faults, but should be on the Lord Yeshua Christ despite differences of perspectives or opinions. God bless you, and your family and friends sister. I love you for who you are, and I am not here to fight, and bicker... that s*** gets old.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I don't know if I have offended you or not but I apologize, because I do not know if it will happen again or not.

I’m not angry or offended. Maybe a bit exasperated at your tactics.
It will definitely happen again though, because you quite literally cannot see the tactics you use are not good because you use them below the level of full awareness of them. They seem like normal functioning to you because you were taught them at a very young age and you’ve been surrounded by them in the world all of your life.
I know of no way to make any of us aware of them so we can be healed from them except to keep pulling them out into the open and calling bull when it needs to be called.
 
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teamventure

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Teamventure, some people out there in the Christian Culture - fight against social ills, and political structures in the name of Christ and I find it bizarre because what use is there fighting the world which John describes as - the pride of life, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes?

What use is it to really fight the world - some even say that are fighting Satan who is in control of the world now or whatever - when we came to Christ doesn't it seem we have peace from God, from the sent Comforter? Why do we let the world terrify us and scare us as though, God will come back and destroy half the earths population when it all pertained to the nation of Israel in the first place if one honestly considers the contents and context of the Bible.

There is no purpose to fight the world - and its social ills and the political standards - as some people have mentioned before I heard in life - the War we do fight is in the mind or the heart. It would seem when we come to Christ and truly learn from him, and rest in him, and have hope in the eternal prospects of the eternity we should find spiritual rest though while we are here on this earth we are overcoming those Dark things mentioned to you earlier in my first post to you...

It is a strange world we do live but I love the people in it, not so much the world itself because it is going to do what it is going to do, and some people follow after the ways of this world, while some choose to follow the ways of the Spirit.

Any thoughts on these things?

Yes, I agree with a lot that you say.
I was concerned more with fighting the enemy, that is principalities and demons evil spirits. Spiritual warfare.
 

MatthewG

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Galatians 5:22-26 (NIV)
 

MatthewG

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Yes, I agree with a lot that you say.
I was concerned more with fighting the enemy, that is principalities and demons evil spirits. Spiritual warfare.

Glad you understood, Teamventure.

We wrestle ourselves against the dark principalities that try to invade our heart, brother! Keep on fighting the good fight.
 
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teamventure

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Glad you understood, Teamventure.

We wrestle ourselves against the dark principalities that try to invade our heart, brother! Keep on fighting the good fight.

Amen brother! Thankfully we have authority in his name, our identity in Christ, the word, and the blood.
 
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LearningToLetGo

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When did the world have a thousand years of peace with Jesus leading the nations? Was it between AD 70 and 1070? Doesn't seem so to me.

When was Satan thrown into the lake of fire? When were 1/3rd of the population of the planet killed? When were mountains thrown into the seas?

If The Book of Revelation is all poetry and not to be taken literally then let's just call it a day, but if it is to be taken literally then we have some serious explanation to do.
 

Brakelite

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The Beast out of the Sea



1 The Authorized Version presents this line here but the Critical Text versions add this line at the end of Chapter 12.


2. This beast is a very different being than the seven headed dragon described in chapter 12. That creature represents Satan or the Devil; this beast represents a creation that works by the power of the Devil.


3. We remember that in scripture the sea often represents the Gentile nations or a Gentile nation. In this case we will discover that this beast is rising out of the Roman Empire. This beast is sometimes spoken of as an individual [specific sense]. It's not surprising then that the beast is interchangeably and individual and a kingdom, if ancient Roman is in view.


4. In order to understand what the seven heads of the beast represent, we are required to go to chapter 17:9-10 where John writes: "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitters. 10 and there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space". The seven kings correspond to the first seven Emperors, of Rome, namely Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, and Galba. [See Daniel 7:2;7; Revelation 17:3,9,12]





Revelation 13:2





5. Interestingly, the beast is described in such a way that it incorporates the traits of all four beasts that Daniel saw in a vision in Daniel 7:1-8. Generally speaking, most Bible Scholars seem to be in partial, if not full agreement, that the beasts in Daniel's vision represented the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Gree, and Roman empires. Here, Romans appears to have been brought into the picture as a chief agent of the judgement that came upon Jerusalem in 70AD. It [Rome] was the "persecuting power that was the hand of the Old Serpent cast to earth to persecute the Saints of God. [See Daniel 7:4-6; Revelation 12:4,9; 16:10]





6. When one of the seven Kings was mortally wounded unto death, [Nero], it was believed that the Roman Empire had come to an end.


7. The Roman Empire.


8. Meaning - "when the Roman Empire revived' [even through the renewed spirit of Nero himself]. [see commentary on Revelation 13:3 - The Death and Revival of Nero in the Roman Empire]


9. The KJV errantly reads, "the whole world"


10 - They were amazed at the Revival of the Roman Empire [ see Revelation 13:12, 14; 17:8]





11 - Satan


12 - They worshiped Rome. We have an instance of this in scripture when at the trails of Yeshua, the Jews cried, "we have no king but Caesar". [ John 19:15]


13 - Here we see not only the Jews adoration of Rome's incomparable power and stamina [ when the worshipers said things like, "Who is like the beast?] but we also get an idea of their feeling powerless to oppose Rome in anyway when they cry, "and who can fight against it?"
Thank you for explaining what you believe Revelation 13 depicts. I see a few slight difference to the way I see it, and one very big difference that changes the entire picture. May I show you my understanding?
 

MatthewG

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@ScottA,

Remember when you explained that 1000 years basically means - fullness of time.

Considering this what it does mean, and (see Matthew 24:34) generation = 40 years, that would be the fullness of time of 1000 years which was a figurative number, just as the Psalm 50 [Verse 10]?

Psalm 50:
7“Hear, O My people, and I will speak,

O Israel, and I will testify against you:

I am God, your God.8I do not rebuke you for your sacrifices,

and your burnt offerings are ever before Me.9I have no need for a bull from your stall

or goats from your pens,10for every beast of the forest is Mine—

the cattle on a thousand hills.

Would like your insight, thank you.
 
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MatthewG

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@Brakelite, if you would like to just point out the one thing sure. If you use scripture (if it happens to be a lot) please use quotes around those parameters if you do not care, thank you.

Glad you are able to read it and understand it fully; it may not change my mind personally but you may present if you are desiring to do so.
 
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