What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Nancy]

Do you have a verse to go along with that concept?

God is certainly perfect:
2 Samuel 22:31
This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Psalm 18:30
This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
“The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Psalm 119:96
I have seen a limit to all perfection, but your commandment is exceedingly broad.

Psalm 18:30
"As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him."

How could someone lower than God Himself, be a "perfect" sacrifice for the whole world? Even when He made covenants with Abraham:
"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,"

God even forbade bulls and goats and lambs that had even one blemish on them, to be used for sacrifice so, how much more so for humans made in His likeness?

 

[Peterlag]

There are a number of other New Testament verses that state Jesus was a man and we can see them in places like Romans that says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

1 Timothy 2:5 says that it's the man Jesus, who was the mediator between God and men. “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” This verse calls Jesus Christ a “man” even after his resurrection. Trinitarian doctrine tries to explain the verses that say Jesus was a man by saying that he was a man, but he was also 100% God at the same time. But there are problems with that such as there is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man and that's why the God-man doctrine is built from many verses.

Furthermore, scholars admit that there are only about eight verses in the entire New Testament that can be understood to say that Jesus is God, and every one of them can either be translated in a way that supports the Biblical Unitarian position, or disputed textually, or can be explained from the use of the word “God” in the culture. In contrast, the clear verses where Jesus is said to be a “man” such as when Peter or Paul taught their audiences that Jesus was a man appointed by God are not disputed and in the context there does not seem to be any good reason those men would not have said Jesus was a God-man if in fact that is what he is.

Actually, the book of Hebrews seems to clear up the subject when it says that when Jesus was on the earth that he was made like us in every way: “Therefore he [Jesus] had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God” (Hebrews 2:17). This verse shows that Jesus was not both fully human and fully God at the same time and if he was then he would not be like us in every respect. Adam, the first man was fully human and by his sin brought sin into the world. Jesus is called the “last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45) and it seems that designation would not be appropriate if Jesus was not fully human in the same way that Adam was.

 

[RLT63]

I don’t either, but if / when they call it the Trinity is it? Of course not.

How do we know? The historical doctrine of the Trinity precludes / excluders it.

My God isn’t the Trinity; neither is the God of United Pentecostal Oneness.

Whose God is the Trinity? The Trinity is the God of trinitarians.

Earlier I asked @Johann if a person must have the Trinity as their deity in order to be a trinitarian. He didn’t reply. Maybe he thought the question was rhetorical. The answer is obvious, isn’t it?

Here’s where I was going with that: Is Jesus himself a trinitarian?

He said we should baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. He repeatedly referred to The Father and told the disciples the Holy Spirit would come.

 

[Peterlag]

God is certainly perfect:
2 Samuel 22:31
This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Psalm 18:30
This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
“The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Psalm 119:96
I have seen a limit to all perfection, but your commandment is exceedingly broad.

Psalm 18:30
"As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him."

How could someone lower than God Himself, be a "perfect" sacrifice for the whole world? Even when He made covenants with Abraham:
"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,"

God even forbade bulls and goats and lambs that had even one blemish on them, to be used for sacrifice so, how much more so for humans made in His likeness?

Okay let's look at the first New Testament verse you listed... Matthew 5:4. Jesus was a perfect man. And being a perfect man does not make a man God.
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Mr E]

Seems you hold to the Orthodox Judaism teachings here.
You gave 10 reasons why Jesus cannot be God?

Tell me, how is Messiah "begotten?" Is He a created being?

She gave ten reasons that you ignored, then deflected away from with another question. It's not honest inquiry and I've noticed a pattern.

 

[RLT63]

There are a number of other New Testament verses that state Jesus was a man and we can see them in places like Romans that says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

1 Timothy 2:5 says that it's the man Jesus, who was the mediator between God and men. “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” This verse calls Jesus Christ a “man” even after his resurrection. Trinitarian doctrine tries to explain the verses that say Jesus was a man by saying that he was a man, but he was also 100% God at the same time. But there are problems with that such as there is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man and that's why the God-man doctrine is built from many verses.

Furthermore, scholars admit that there are only about eight verses in the entire New Testament that can be understood to say that Jesus is God, and every one of them can either be translated in a way that supports the Biblical Unitarian position, or disputed textually, or can be explained from the use of the word “God” in the culture. In contrast, the clear verses where Jesus is said to be a “man” such as when Peter or Paul taught their audiences that Jesus was a man appointed by God are not disputed and in the context there does not seem to be any good reason those men would not have said Jesus was a God-man if in fact that is what he is.

Actually, the book of Hebrews seems to clear up the subject when it says that when Jesus was on the earth that he was made like us in every way: “Therefore he [Jesus] had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God” (Hebrews 2:17). This verse shows that Jesus was not both fully human and fully God at the same time and if he was then he would not be like us in every respect. Adam, the first man was fully human and by his sin brought sin into the world. Jesus is called the “last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45) and it seems that designation would not be appropriate if Jesus was not fully human in the same way that Adam was.

But could a man who was just a man heal the sick and lame, raise the dead and walk on water? Even touching the helm of his garment healed a woman.

 

[Wrangler]

People are always saying " SHOW ME THE VERSE" ,it's like the movie Jerry Mcquire, ......show me the money !

You cannot SHOW A BLIND PERSON ANYTHING!

Just reference the verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. And stop your belly aching.

If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture. Instead, advocates have the audacity to balk when asked what verse states their doctrine. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once! Cricket. Cricket.

 

[Peterlag]

I’m a Biblical unitarian.

Once you accept Scripture is the inspired word of God and read it for yourself, you realize you do not have to abdicate your reasoning mind and embrace mystical dualism.

To quote Galileo, I don’t believe God would bless us with a reasoning mind to forgo its use.

Scripture explicitly and repeatedly states God alone is the Father and Jesus is the Son of God (which is not equal to God the Son). Every epistle states this dynamic duo with no reference to a God the Holy Spirit person.

I find no reason to go beyond what Scripture says. Indeed, I find reason to stay in the lanes of what Scripture explicitly teaches. Embracing the 4th century man-made dogma of the trinity is fodder, not bringing forth the fruit of the Spirit.

Amen

 

[Wrangler]

But could a man who was just a man heal the sick and lame, raise the dead and walk on water?

You do know that other prophets raised people from the dead, right?

 

[Peterlag]

But could a man who was just a man heal the sick and lame, raise the dead and walk on water? Even touching the helm of his garment healed a woman.

Many Prophets in the Old Testament did some pretty cool stuff like raise people from the dead and one guy even parted an ocean.

 

[RLT63]

You do know that other prophets raised people from the dead, right?

Yes but I don't think any of them had been dead for four days and no other prophet came back from the dead themselves.

 

[Peterlag]

You do know that other prophets raised people from the dead, right?

One guy even parted an ocean

 

[farouk]

God is certainly perfect:
2 Samuel 22:31
This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Psalm 18:30
This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
“The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Psalm 119:96
I have seen a limit to all perfection, but your commandment is exceedingly broad.

Psalm 18:30
"As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him."

How could someone lower than God Himself, be a "perfect" sacrifice for the whole world? Even when He made covenants with Abraham:
"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,"

God even forbade bulls and goats and lambs that had even one blemish on them, to be used for sacrifice so, how much more so for humans made in His likeness?

Hi @Nancy I like how "His way is perfect" (Psalm 18.30) in the singular.

And then "His ways are past finding out" (Romans 11.33) in the plural............

 

[Johann]

As for Jesus himself, he has a God and his God isn’t the Trinity.

The one with erroneous teachings is you friend.
The amazing thing is that I use verifiable Jewish sources to prove the Triune Godhead, but you don't make an effort to actually listen, and THEN debunk these scholars.
I might look stupid, but I ain't stupid.

You have knocked Messiah off His rightful throne and made Him a creature, an image who is in need of a God, your belief is foreign to scriptures.
No more dialogue, we are all growing older, one foot in the grave, and the other in the basileia...but it is sad if everyone here is a "scholar" and in no need of correction.
Shalom to you and family.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes but I don't think any of them had been dead for four days and no other prophet came back from the dead themselves.

That's because God never raised anyone from the dead with this new life before which is why Jesus is said to be the firstborn among the dead.

 

[RLT63]

One guy even parted an ocean

Atlantic or Pacific?

 

[RLT63]

.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

When Jesus was 12 he discussed things in the temple, then went home with his parents-
"And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man" (Luke 21:41-52)

so if Jesus WAS God as some claim, why would he need to "grow in wisdom and stature"?..

He was also human.

 

[Johann]

She gave ten reasons that you ignored, then deflected away from with another question. It's not honest inquiry and I've noticed a pattern.

Just doing how Jesus was doing it, you know, is Christ Jesus a created being? ....since I too have noticed a "pattern"...leaven among the genuine believers in Christ, which is permissible.
But hey, feel free to peruse any posts and sources I have posted since I have joined this forum, and fire away!
Is Christ a created being?
10 reasons why Jesus "can't" be God?!
I can give you plenty reasons why Jesus IS GOD brother!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The reason I ask is because I am uncomfortable with the idea that Satan was an eternal being with God before creation began.

I am not sure we know when Satan first sinned - there must have been a spiritual fall before the fall of man in order for Satan to be deceptive in nature.

Satan is referred to as the King of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 and in the Garden of Eden. It was there that iniquity was found in him. Also, the serpent was also cursed along with the soil for Adam and childbearing for Eve.