What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Matthias]

Can you read John 1:1 and give me your interpretation?

I’ve done so several times already. John 1:1 is about one person, not two persons, nor three persons. The one person is the Father.

Then read

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

How do you read the scriptures?

I read the scriptures in such a way that it conforms to the Messiah’s own belief in his and my God.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

841

Matthew 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

“But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name (singular) of other gods, even that prophet shall die.” (Deuteronomy 18:20)

But we all know that all these gods were different and had individual names…

So that argument is shut down.

 

[Johann]

Please put me on ignore so YOU can't see what I write, you dont read it all anyway. Just tantrum throw.

Don't worry, there are foxes everywhere, and the Admins don't appreciate our calling them out for who they are.
I can see the pattern clearly.
This is a "love all, offend none" kind of caricature, diametrically opposed to what the scriptures says.
Stay strong and rooted in Christ, these foxes will expose themselves.

 

[Matthias]

Don't worry, there are foxes everywhere, and the Admins don't appreciate our calling them out for who they are.
I can see the pattern clearly.
This is a "love all, offend none" kind of caricature, diametrically opposed to what the scriptures says.
Stay strong and rooted in Christ, these foxes will expose themselves.

Why didn’t you encourage her to embrace trinitarianism?

I may have overlooked it, but did you rebuke her for adamantly insisting that God is not three persons?

Who are the foxes you’re referring to if not non-trinitarians?

You are aware that she’s a non-trinitarian, aren’t you?

 

[Johann]

I’ve done so several times already. John 1:1 is about one person, not two persons, nor three persons. The one person is the Father.

[Edited...not interested in debating the subject matter]

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


With thine own self (para seautōi). “By the side of thyself.” Jesus prays for full restoration to the pre-incarnate glory and fellowship (cf. Joh_1:1) enjoyed before the Incarnation (Joh_1:14). This is not just ideal pre-existence, but actual and conscious existence at the Father’s side (para soi, with thee) “which I had” (hēi eichon, imperfect active of echō, I used to have, with attraction of case of hēn to hēi because of doxēi), “before the world was” (pro tou ton kosmon einai), “before the being as to the world” (cf. Joh_17:24). It is small wonder that those who deny or reject the deity of Jesus Christ have trouble with the Johannine authorship of this book and with the genuineness of these words. But even Harnack admits that the words here and in Joh_17:24 are “undoubtedly the reflection of the certainty with which Jesus himself spoke” (What Is Christianity, Engl. Tr., p. 132). But Paul, as clearly as John, believes in the actual pre-existence and deity of Jesus Christ (Php_2:5-11).
Robertson

Who are in error here?
But you would "report" me to the Staff Board? For speaking the truth, as it stand written in scriptures?

May the Lord Jesus Christ be the Judge between me and you on the Day of Judgement.
End of dialogue.

 

[Matthias]

You are not going to solicit any reaction from me @Matthias, I would submit to @Heart2Soul to see if he/she is reading John 1:1 as one, or two persons, which you deny, and somehow you "read" John 17 but cannot see that Messiah is talking about His glory which He had with the Father

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


With thine own self (para seautōi). “By the side of thyself.” Jesus prays for full restoration to the pre-incarnate glory and fellowship (cf. Joh_1:1) enjoyed before the Incarnation (Joh_1:14). This is not just ideal pre-existence, but actual and conscious existence at the Father’s side (para soi, with thee) “which I had” (hēi eichon, imperfect active of echō, I used to have, with attraction of case of hēn to hēi because of doxēi), “before the world was” (pro tou ton kosmon einai), “before the being as to the world” (cf. Joh_17:24). It is small wonder that those who deny or reject the deity of Jesus Christ have trouble with the Johannine authorship of this book and with the genuineness of these words. But even Harnack admits that the words here and in Joh_17:24 are “undoubtedly the reflection of the certainty with which Jesus himself spoke” (What Is Christianity, Engl. Tr., p. 132). But Paul, as clearly as John, believes in the actual pre-existence and deity of Jesus Christ (Php_2:5-11).
Robertson

Who are in error here?
But you would "report" me to the Staff Board? For speaking the truth, as it stand written in scriptures?

May the Lord Jesus Christ be the Judge between me and you on the Day of Judgement.
End of dialogue.

You say that I will get no reaction from you and then immediately proceed to give me a reaction.

Rest easy. I don’t report anyone for any reason.

If past performance is any indication of future performance, I haven’t heard the last from you.

How many times have you said that you would no longer dialogue with me, only to continue dialogue with me. The Boy Who Cried Wolf is a great little tale.

 

[Matthias]

Stop trolling me, you remind me of a little kelev who has its bone stolen and are yapping and snapping.
The hole that you are trying to dig for me, Hinei!..you will fall into it yourself.

I’m just trying to understand your thought process. Your actions are inconsistent when it comes to dealing with non-trinitarians.

And more dialogue when no more dialogue was promised only minutes ago. Another exhibition of inconsistency from you.

You say one thing then do another. Something keeps bringing you back to me.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Don't worry, there are foxes everywhere, and the Admins don't appreciate our calling them out for who they are.
I can see the pattern clearly.
This is a "love all, offend none" kind of caricature, diametrically opposed to what the scriptures says.
Stay strong and rooted in Christ, these foxes will expose themselves.

Including yourself....but these types of post don't remain very long and the poster usually receives a warning. Can you guess why?

 

[Johann]

Including yourself....but these types of post don't remain very long and the poster usually receives a warning. Can you guess why?

No, tell me, tell this "fox" why before you ban me and I have a question for you.
Do you believe Christ Jesus is God? He is our Savior, yet God veiled in the flesh, if I may say it like that.
A created creature?
"a god?"
Do you believe that there is such a thing as the Triune Godhead in Scriptures?
Or One?
Do you have discernment?

Answer me these, and ban, I have no trouble with that.
This is not the first time I am banned from a forum, so go ahead @Heart2Soul

 

[Heart2Soul]

No, tell me, tell this "fox" why before you ban me and I have a question for you.
Do you believe Christ Jesus is God? He is our Savior, yet God veiled in the flesh, if I may say it like that.
A created creature?
"a god?"
Do you believe that there is such a thing as the Triune Godhead in Scriptures?
Or One?
Do you have discernment?

Answer me these, and ban, I have no trouble with that.
This is not the first time I am banned from a forum, so go ahead @Heart2Soul

A warning is not a ban....but the reason is because you are claiming to know how the admin./staff think or feel about a topic without even asking first...known as bearing false witness....also falls under Flaming, goading, harassment and character attack....also is considered circumventing staff actions/decisions made on the forum.
I firmly believe that God is in 3 persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I have already made my statement on this and made it loud and clear.
Calling me a fox...well I have been called worse. Does it make you feel better?

 

[Nancy]

It has to do with several things...
1) First anciently, men with visions preached, that which the listeners could not BELIEVE what they could not see.
2) Men with visions preached THINGS that would happen Before they happened....too long of a time span for men to wait to see happen what was foretold. (Scripture reveals numerous times...shall come to pass)
3) Men with visions preached THINGS that would happen Before they happened....God shortened a time span, so men could Hear and Then See that it would happen. (Num 11:23 now See if it shall come to pass)
4) whoop, whoop...happenings pre told, comes to pass...but, but, but, WE WANT TO SEE GOD!!
5) Gods response....You stubborn, stiffnecked people! You can not Believe being pre-told of what will happen, it does happen and YOU STILL DOUBT God exists?
6) Here ya go kids......I WILL SEND MY (Gods) Word to Earth.....and guess what...YOU WILL SEE Him, YOU WILL HEAR Him.....AND MOST OF YOU.....WILL STILL NOT BELIEVE!

7) So God WHO had been giving VISIONS to men, To teach other men ABOUT God....Switches gears.....And Sends His OWN WORD to EARTH to TEACH earthly MEN.
8) God purposes IN HIMSELF.... (Eph 1:9)
9) God Prepared a BODY for His Word....(Heb 10:5)
10) God Sent His Word forth out of His mouth in the Prepared body ...
(Isa 55:11)
11) Sent His Word (a holy thing) to where it would prosper. (Isa 55:11)
12) Where God Sent His Word was this world Earth. (Heb 10:5)
13) In the LIKENESS AS AN EARTHLY MAN, God Sent His Word to Earth, (TO the VIRGIN WOMB of an Earthly Faithful Jewish woman) WAS in the LIKENESS, fashion, shape, look AS an Earthly man and was SEEN by Earthly men.....
Looking LIKE an Earthly man... (Phil 2:7, Phil 2:8)
14) God FORETOLD (through Gods Faithful Holy Angel Servant) that HOLY THING (ie the Word of God) (Luke 1:35) would be delivered forth from the Virgin Womb of a Jewish Woman...and called Jesus (Matt 1:21) and He called himself the Son of man (Matt 16:13) and that He shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:35)
15) and 30 years later, He was called the Son of God.


WHY? WHY did Gods Word come forth out of Gods mouth, and God purpose in Himself, to be seen ON EARTH AS A HUMBLED SERVANT, in the LIKENESS AS A MAN?

1) First and foremost ANY EARTHLY MAN that could SEE God “as He is”, would instantly DIE, incinerate, Because of the Brightness of His Pure LIGHT.
2) Gods PEOPLE, the TRIBES were scattered, following After Gentiles way and gods.
3) Judah adjoined with the Tribe of Benjamin were the last standouts continuing to Follow their forefathers Beliefs in God and Laws and Traditions of God.
4) God had PROMISED to SAVE faithful men He called “His People” ISRAEL.
5) Men Converting IN Christ were and are Servants Spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ......and incinerated man would not be able to Serve God and Preach!

THE WHY...was to seek and SAVE His People, TO FULFILL His PROMISE.
THE WHY...WAS ALSO to make way for GENTILES to hear, learn, that they might ALSO Believe and be grafted into and Become Gods People.
AND...DURING the end of days tribulation, SHALL BE A GREAT Revival, Of Masses of JEWS becoming IN BELIEF....that
Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God...
THEN SHALL Gods Promise BE FULFILLED to His People ISRAEL.
And thereafter Separation of Gods People and those Against God.
And thereafter Judgement and A NEW Heavens and NEW Earth WITH Gods People and God Himself as He is.

You sure have a way with words Taken.
Awesome and to the point post. Glad you threw in that man would incinerate upon actually looking at God as He is right now.

 

[Johann]

Calling me a fox...well I have been called worse. Does it make you feel better?

Johann said: ↑
No, tell me, tell this "fox" ...did I call you a fox?

but the reason is because you are claiming to know how the admin./staff think or feel about a topic without even asking first...know as bearing false witness....also falls under Flaming, goading, harassment and character attack....also is considered circumventing staff actions/decisions made on the forum.

This is a first time for me, Flaming, goading, harassment and character attack...Christ Jesus had stronger words right?

I don't claim to know nothing re the Staff because I don't know them, and I don't bear false witness, you are all out to single me out @Heart2Soul and make an example of me, please do.
If you wanted to get to know me and my character, I would have gladly share my testimony with you.

To me, and that before all the members, your response to me was uncalled for, not Christ like, not knowing me at all.

You cannot fault me on the scriptures, now you are resorting to me circumventing staff actions/decisions on this forum.

Go ahead @Heart2Soul, I know that what I was doing here, on this forum, was for the glory of Christ Jesus, His alone, not fearing the face of man.
Shalom to you and family, be grateful you have a family, I have none.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Shalom to you and family, be grateful you have a family, I have none.
Johann.

Just noticed you are a female, well I guess there goes I.

 

[Peterlag]

consquence of sin
Numbers 32:23, Isaiah 59:2, Habakkuk1:13
Romans 6:23

If man tries to deal with his sins he must accept that dealing with them means punishment, eternal separation from God.

Man cannot deal with his own sins let alone the sins of the world.

Only God can do that.
John1:29 the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Romans 8:3For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh.”
1 Peter 2:24 – “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.”
2 Corinthians 5:21 – “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

I just looked at Romans 6:23 and it does not say Jesus had to be God for some reason. And John 1:29 does not say it either. I'm going to assume you either cannot answer or you do not understand the question.

 

[Peterlag]

The truth is always a benefit .. don't you agree?

So you can't come up with 1 verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God?

 

[Peterlag]

Atlantic or Pacific?

The Red Sea

 

[RLT63]

So you can't come up with 1 verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God?

I can't find one verse that tells us why God wants to be worshipped either.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The truth is always a benefit .. don't you agree?

You may want to take note their posts demonstrate the answer to your question is a resounding, ''NO!''
It's called, ''broken record trolling''.
As you can read Jerry Maguire is a big fan of that practice.
No verse. No verse. So you can't post a verse? Still no verse, etc... ad nauseam.

 

[Matthias]

So you can't come up with 1 verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God?

Is there a reason that Jesus would be like God?

 

[Johann]

So you can't come up with 1 verse that tells us why Jesus had to be God?

No comment from me, but I do feel for RLT, he must feel like Joe Frazier after seeing his behind from Ali.