Phoneman777
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All hail Behold, the King of Strawmanville (psst - I'm not a Calvinist)
OSAS is "Calvinist Lite", which you subscribe to, bro
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
All hail Behold, the King of Strawmanville (psst - I'm not a Calvinist)
OSAS is "Calvinist Lite", which you subscribe to, bro
Phoneman777,
You try to sound clever , but it never works out. You only come across as shallow and petty, and mean spirited. (According to your posts).
And you'll do it again "bro"..
So, here is the Thing....
Jesus is Salvation, and He "became sin" for the entire world. = "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son"....to deal with all the sin.
ITs SIN that keeps you out of Heaven, and separated from God. So, God came here as one of us to die for all of us, so that by this Sacrifice of God as Christ on the Cross, = Christ has become our sin, and the born again, have become "the righteousness of God, IN Christ"
This is : SALVATION. and there is none other that God accepts, as it's GOD who provided = ONLY what He will accept to accept You.
2 Corinthians 5:19 shows us that God already did this for us, and Romans 4:8 shows us that God does not charge sin to those who have become "the righteousness of God in Christ"..
Calvin, was a heretic, slightly insane who decided that God does not allow everyone access to Jesus on the Cross.
So, He is one of the Devil's finest Tools, he ever created as a "Theologian".
He, JC, would not accept my Theology, as i teach Pauline Theology, only, and JC did not.
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Phoneman777
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If you haven't figured it out, what I'm interested in is not your style of cursory, surface reading, but digging into Scripture at the level of the verse and examining whether what we derive from it is evidence for our positions or not. Therefore, I've decided to stop reading your posts until you answer the following question about the following verse:
Does Matthew 7:21-23 KJV say "all" of the lost who are told to depart will be unknown to Him, or simply "many" of the total number of the lost will be unknown to Him?
I'm asking because you use it to "prove" your OSAS position.
OSAS is in your mind, only.
Listen...you understand that OSAS is not a "Position", it is a lie created by Pharisees in JUDE'S day and PAUL's Day, that is designed to subvert the true understanding of Grace, of God's Grace, that is : "the Gift of Salvation".
Listen.... In Paul's day, they said to him...>"you are teaching license to sin"..
The PHARISEES said it like this...>"Paul says that we are to sin so that Grace will come".
So, you are just one more from that heretical pack, from long ago, who hears GRACE though the lens of your self righteousness.
You need to get your FAITH Right, as its broken.
----------------------------
And regarding "depart from me".
Now, i have to lay the theological groundwork for you, so that you can see what your verse is actually teaching.
1.) To be in Christ, is to >have become< the Bride of Christ.
Christ is not coming back to Marry the Bride,...(the body of Christ) He's coming back for the Bride He's already married.
Understand?
So, the bible teaches that "marriage" is not the piece of paper, or the "I TAKE YOU to be my Husband/wife".
Its not the contract or the vow., regarding how the BIBLE explains marriage.
The bible explains marriage as "FLESH JOINING FLESH"......>" they shall leave their parents and CLEAVE to one another".
To "CLEAVE" is to physically join yourself to the person...>"flesh joining flesh". "consummation".
Let me show you this really quickly.. = When Jews get married in Israel, religious jews, they go directly to a room with a bed in it, and consummate, as that is the REAL Marriage.....
Understand?
This is biblical "marriage".....So, this is why Paul tells you to "flee fornication", as "flesh is joining flesh".
2.) So, in the SPIRIT Realm......to Join God, is to become "ONE" with God, = is the same IDEA as "flesh joining flesh", but its in the Spirit.
This "joining'" of man to God, of woman to God, is to become = BORN AGAIN... (not water baptized).
This is the Holy Spirit of GOD, birthing the person INTO The Holy Spirit of God by the Holy Spirit.....= that is to become "ONE with God" and IN Christ".
So, you have to understand all that first, before you jump into, "depart from me"..
3.) Now, " 2 become ONE FLESH", to have intimacy with someone, is the sex act. And the bible refers to this as KNOWING them.
If you have read Genesis, you find LOT's Daughters, having sex with their drunken Dad, Genesis 19:34-35, = "to KNOW".
This is the same you find in Sodom and Gomorrah, where the homosexual perverts were calling to Lot, to "send out the Angels, that we may KNOW THEM".
See that? "KNOW THEM" = Fornicate with them.
God burned them soon after that request, as that is how God feels about Homosexuality. He does not accept it.
So, to wind this little teaching up... . as its getting Late in Israel.....and i was up really early today....
4.) To "KNOW" person , biblically speaking is to have carnal knowledge of them...(sexual intimacy) ..which is the bible understanding of "flesh joining flesh".
The Spiritual aspect of "KNOWING YOU" , is becoming "in Christ', = Spiritual UNION... and "ONE WITH GOD"....= Spiritual UNION.
That is how God KNOWS YOU.
He KNOWS YOU< because you are JOINED TO HIM Spiritually (born again)...... as a BRIDE is JOINED TO HER HUSBAND, literally (flesh joining flesh)
SEE it?
That is the BRIDE OF CHIRST.... .in Spiritual UNION< with God and Christ, is how Jesus KNOWS You.
So, your verse says.......>"depart from me.....I NEVER KNEW YOU">.
"NEVER KNEW YOU">. .= I dont KNOW You.. . You are not in Spiritual union with me, you are not : BORN AGAIN.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Conditional salvation
But you agree that salvation is also based on Jesus taking away our sin and making us new creations, and our not just saying I'm saved and can now do what I want. Salvation is based on NOT doing that, so it is a condition. We must be born again. So you do believe that, so open your mind and see what the other person is actually saying.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
How can you say that Phoneman777 believes in OSAS which is a license to sin when he believes we must keep the Ten Commandments, and if we don't we are damned. You have tunnel vision against him in general, and it doesn't matter to you if he tells you the opposite of what you say he says. That's dumb. You are both making a fools out of yourselves, as you say Phoneman believes in OSAS, and he says you believe in grace being a license to sin. YOU'RE BOTH WRONG ABOUT EACH OTHER!
"the work of God, is that you BELIEVE..... in Jesus, whom God sent'.
There is the condition.
Then, God gives the person the "gift of Salvation" and there is no condition required to keep it....As Faith is counted as righteousness, and you are "justified by faith".
Its DONE.
Faith didnt save you.....God saved you, through your faith using Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross to perform this "gift of Salvation" and "gift of Rightousness".
Faith in Christ, given to God, CAUSES God to give you HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, ... "the righteousness of God, in CHRIST". = You become this.......you dont just have it in your pocket. It does not ever END.
Its GOD's Salvation, given to you as a GIFT.... that lasts as long as God lives.
To be "IN Christ"......IN HIM.......Inside His SPIRIT< is to be born again,. = This is Spiritual union, and its eternal.....it is the NEW BIRTH.......Its is to have become...for all eternity.... a Son/Daughter of God....as a "new Creation IN = Christ.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
All who can't understand the Cross, believe they must earn their way to heaven, doing something.
In His case, he is trying to worry about Commandments, as this is his savior.
= As if """" the Cross and Christ is not the end of the LAW for every one who BELIEVES"
And as i said, there is no such thing as he believes, called OSAS.
He has been DECEIVED to believe that the Grace of God, if taught correctly, ..means the teacher is preaching.....You have license to sin.
This is not taught by anyone.
Its a FAKE idea, .... it does not happen... and what causes it, is a person hears...>"all your sin is forgiven", by The Cross of Christ, and then they read 1 Corinthians 5:19 that says God does not charge sin to you, if you are born again... and then they FREAK OUT and think...that is saying we can do what we want now that we are saved..
That is how their twisted MIND hears "GRACE".
THAT, is how they wrongly HEAR The Gospel of the Grace of God, and "the Gift of Salvation".
They hear it wrong, because there is a deception at work, a stronghold in their MIND... that prevents their correct understanding of the GRACE of God.
They can only hear it, as "license to sin".
Why? PRIDE.
They want to prove to you that they can do something and God will accept them, and that is PRIDE that REJECTS the GRACE of God.
And when you have that PRIDE......its a deceptive stronghold in your mind, that will not let you SEE. "the GIFT of Salvation" and "The GIFT of Righteousness
That's his issue, and millions of believers have this same mental stronghold issue., and every one of them, is a Self Saving Legalist who does not BELIEVE That God who saved you, will keep you saved.
Philippians 1:6
They can't believe it because deception has prevented them from SEEING IT. They are MIND BLINDED.
"""The devil blinds the mind... so that the light of the Gospel can't shine into them""""
This is why they believe they can lose their salvation.
This is why they RANT about works , works.
This is why they RANT about commandments.
They CANT SEE THE CROSS.
They CANT SEE IT, and that is why there is no CROSS in their THEOLOGY.....only works works and enduring, and commandments, and water baptism.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
DanielConway
Member
Before anyone goes blazing away at someone who appears to be practicing a bit of syncretism in their walk, Preaching a bit of law along with faith, please remember the exhortations of Paul:
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
2
One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
3
The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.
4
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5
One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6
He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7
For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
8
If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
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I am not incapable of pressing the clobber claw when I see someone posting something that is potentially destructive or deleterious to the faith of someone in particular or even the church body en mass, but please, don't let me get away with preaching a necessity of a perfect understanding of perfect doctrine in order to be on the IN list, cause it just ain't so. For that matter I ain't gonna let you do it either.
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
2
One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
3
The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.
4
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5
One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6
He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7
For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
8
If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
:
I am not incapable of pressing the clobber claw when I see someone posting something that is potentially destructive or deleterious to the faith of someone in particular or even the church body en mass, but please, don't let me get away with preaching a necessity of a perfect understanding of perfect doctrine in order to be on the IN list, cause it just ain't so. For that matter I ain't gonna let you do it either.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Works is the opposite of OSAS. Yes, I agree, he believes in keeping the letter of the law. But that is NOT OSAS. How do you figure? OSAS is lawlessness, not keeping the law. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." How do you interpret that verse? Maybe the same way I do, but he believes they are the Ten Commandments, not 1 John 3:23. You call it legalism, but at least it is not illegalism. There is a huge difference. So what if @Phoneman777 believes in keeping the Sabbath by the letter of the law. That is not falling from grace as is believing we must be circumcised to be saved, what the Judaisers were teaching the Galatians. So learn what is and is not against God, and stop accusing the brethren for doing what they believe to be right. That is what counts in God's eyes, so start activating the mind of Christ a little, and stop being so legalistic. What you should keep on doing is being against the lawlessness of OSAS. That I can agree with, and so can Phoneman. But you two both erroneously accuse each other of teaching OSAS. Looking from the outside, you two are hilarious.
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Phoneman777
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I see you don't want to discuss Matthew 7:21-23 KJV - one can only conclude that you know you can no longer use it as a "proof text" for OSAS, but you're unwilling to admit it.
Matthew 24:12-13 KJV proves that the "many" are saints which will wind up in hell, and you're guilty of preaching the false security of the OSAS License to Sin.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Come on, man! How many times are you two going to accuse each other erroneously of believing in OSAS, WHEN NEITHER OF YOU DO!!!!!!! And you know it, so both of you stop your lying and bearing false witness! Phoneman, that is a commandment by the way that you are breaking over and over repeatedly.
"all that walk in the spirit, i will not let go to hell"
"The gospel according to 1CenturyLady".
Sorry, no.
Here is the Gospel... John 14:6
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Whose Spirit do we walk in, silly. Romans 8:9 ...If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Him. That's Scripture and the power of God. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes. See it is not my gospel. He has to be in us for us to walk in His power, not just known by us.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
All hail Behold, the King of Strawmanville (psst - I'm not a Calvinist)
OSAS is "Calvinist Lite", which you subscribe to, bro
He sure talks like it, but when you read all of his posts, you find he doesn't. What he doesn't have are the fruit of the Spirit to walk in. Don't try to outdo him with snide remarks, friend, or you'll be quenching the Holy Spirit yourself.
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You do that with your understanding, not with your works.
Everyone who is born again, already exists IN The Spirit of God.
Yet, you are told to "walk in it".
Why do you need to be told to "walk in it" if your born again Spirit, already exists "IN Christ"?
A.) Because exiting in it, and walking in it, are not the same.
To exist in it, happens by BIRTH, and walking in it, by revelation knowledge.
Most believers think that walking in the spirit, is to try to be like Christ by behavior.
Thats not it.
And some think that speaking in their prayer language is walking in the spirit.
That's not it.
DanielConway
Member
Uh huh. Please partake of this.
Philippians 3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, 5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; 7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace. 8 For God is my witness, how greatly I long for you all with the affection of Jesus Christ.
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, 11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Here we have proof that every saving faith is initiated by God "He who has begun a good work in you" Carried through and completed by God "will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" and that every good work attendant to it is instigated and enabled by God "11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ," so that God gets all the credit "to the glory and praise of God."
Mmmm.. Yum. I don't know about you but a good stuffing meal makes me feel sooo...., Sleeepy.
Philippians 3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, 5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; 7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace. 8 For God is my witness, how greatly I long for you all with the affection of Jesus Christ.
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, 11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Here we have proof that every saving faith is initiated by God "He who has begun a good work in you" Carried through and completed by God "will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" and that every good work attendant to it is instigated and enabled by God "11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ," so that God gets all the credit "to the glory and praise of God."
Mmmm.. Yum. I don't know about you but a good stuffing meal makes me feel sooo...., Sleeepy.
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