What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Aunty Jane]

Notice when it says I am ( he) he is in brackets or is italicized. That means it was added and not in the manuscript.

When you see it italicized or in brackets, it’s because the translator understands that by context, it is implied. That is actually honesty, not the promotion of an unsubstantiated idea introduced long after Jesus died.

 

[RLT63]

When you see it italicized or in brackets, it’s because the translator understands that by context, it is implied. That is actually honesty, not the promotion of an unsubstantiated idea introduced long after Jesus died.

It seems you like the translators when they agree with you. Other times not so much

 

[Matthias]

“For anyone of the house of Israel or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire Me for himself, I the LORD will be brought to answer him in My own person.”

(Ezekiel 14:7, NASB)

NASB is the only translation on the Bible Gateway site which contains the phrase “My own person.” NABRE contains the phrase “in person.” Other translations say “myself” or “personally”.

It catches my eye and causes me to wonder why not “My own persons,” “in persons,” “myselfs” or “tri-personally” if the LORD (Yahweh) is three persons.

Any thoughts on it @RLT63?

Yahweh is only one person.

 

[Phoneman777]

He never said "I am God", because Jesus never once called himself YHWH.....God has only one name (Psalm 83:18)....

Unless you can show me something else, my belief is Jesus is fully God in the highest sense of the word. So, to answer your first point, Scripture says "Holy and Reverend are His NAMES" -- "names" denoting plurality of the names of the LORD aka YHWH. His name is also "Jealousy". So, here's three different names of Him, right or wrong?

the holy spirit has no name

The Holy Spirit is called by name "God" and also "the Comforter" or "Helper". Is it necessary for "His name is ___" to precede or "___ is His name" to follow? The Bible introduces Elijah as "Elijah the Tishbite" without any "His name is ___" preceding or "___ is his name" following, and no one seems to have a problem accepting that is his name.

Jesus never claimed equality with his God and Father.

Jesus Himself said "For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins" and right after when He repeated Himself, saying, "Before Abraham was, I AM", the Jews were so convinced He was making Himself equal with the Father they tried to stone Him.

Jesus as "the Word" (Logos) is one who speaks for God....a spokesman.....not a god/man.

Yes, the same Jesus that existed as "the Word" in the OT became flesh in the NT - He was 100% man and 100% God. That's why He spoke at times as a man, and at other times as God: "Before Abraham was, I AM".

Creation came "through" the son...not "from" him. He is the agency "through" whom God created all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

If the Word was not a separate Divine Person, then "For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these THREE are One" makes no sense. By your logic, it should say "There are TWO that bear record."

(BTW, I fully disregard the Critical NT MSS as heretical...by reason that just because something is "older" doesn't mean it's "better", just "older". There are letters written between the ECFs in which they quote passages which are MISSING from the Alexandrian but present in the Byzantian......which proves it is not that the Byzantian had things added to it, but that the Alexandrian (upon which is based the NWT and every other new version around the turn of the 20th century) REMOVED texts.)

 

[Phoneman777]

Now you got me looking at this...

1 John 4:1-2
... Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:...

Do the Catholics believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh? Or do they really believe he's some kind of spirit? A spirit man who has dropped down into a flesh body but is really a spirit or spirit man... a god-man that is also the holy spirit?

Brace yourself: the Catholic church actually denies Jesus Christ came "in the flesh" and is why the Bible identifies the Papacy as "Antichrist". How so?

It has to do with the doctrine of the "Immaculate Conception", which surprisingly doesn't have a thing to do with Jesus - it's about the birth of MARY. Mary, it is claimed by them, was born "without any stain of original sin" like the rest of us, making her flesh "different" flesh from ours. And, since Jesus' Father was perfect, and His mother's flesh was "without stain" therefore "different", they claim Jesus did indeed come "in the flesh" BUT NOT THE SAME FLESH".

And, here is the foundation for the necessity of the Intercession of Mary...because as they teach:

"As no man cometh to the Father except through the Son, no man cometh to the Son except through MARY".

Mother Theresa said, "No Mary, NO JESUS".​

According to them, Jesus is unapproachable because His flesh is not the SAME flesh as ours. The Bible plainly says, "He Himself likewise took part of the SAME flesh". They claim the anger of Jesus is only assuaged by "Mary baring the breasts that gave Him suck". They've actually got paintings of her doing just that. What a horrifically sick doctrine, but should not surprise us, seeing that it comes from Satan's headquarters in Rome.

“The sinner that ventures directly to Christ may come with dread and apprehension of his wrath: but let him only employ the mediation of the Virgin with her Son and she has only to show that Son the breasts that gave him suck and his wrath will immediately be appeased." The Catholic Laymann, July, 1856 174​

 

[Wrangler]

Unless you can show me something else, my belief is Jesus is fully God in the highest sense of the word.

LOL She just quoted Scripture directly saying that only YHWH is God and for no apparent reason, a direct quote from Scripture is insufficient for you to think past your indoctrination. What set of words would qualify that Jesus is not God in any manner shape or form? For me, the fact that he died is precisely the 'something else' you seek since God is eternal and unchanging and death is the greatest change a life form can undergo.

 

[Wrangler]

the holy spirit has no name

The Holy Spirit is called by name "God" and also "the Comforter" or "Helper".

The name of man is not Man and the name of god is not God. Descriptions but not a name. A person requires a personal name. The name, the personal name of the one true God is YHWH. The Holy Spirit has no personal name in Scripture.

This is because the Holy Spirit of God is not a person but an attribute of the Supreme Being.

Some say I have a Big Smile. However, my personal name is Wrangler and my big smile does not constitute a separate person.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus Himself said "For if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins"

I don't know what these 'ye's' are but 'I am" is something many people say. A better translation is if you do not believe I am who I say, which is the Son of God, then you will die in your sins.

You are just reading your trinitarian dogma into unitarian Scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

He was 100% man and 100% God.

Math is not your strong suit, huh?

 

[Wrangler]

If the Word was not a separate Divine Person, then "For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these THREE are One" makes no sense.

Agreed. It makes no sense and is a forgery. Education yourself on the biggest error KJV made.

 

[RLT63]

The name of man is not Man and the name of god is not God. Descriptions but not a name. A person requires a personal name. The name, the personal name of the one true God is YHWH. The Holy Spirit has no personal name in Scripture.

This is because the Holy Spirit of God is not a person but an attribute of the Supreme Being.

Some say I have a Big Smile. However, my personal name is Wrangler and my big smile does not constitute a separate person.

John 16:13-15 The Holy Spirit is a HE. He has no name of his own because he doesn't speak of himself. He is an unnamed servant. Jesus said He shall glorify me, not himself

 

[Kermos]

Here's a little on how I see John 8:58 that you mention...

The phrase "I am" occurs many other times in the New Testament and is often translated as "I am he" or I am the one I claim to be. Mark 11:36; Luke 21:8; John 13:19, 18:5, 6 and 8. "It is I" Matthew 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. ...I am the one I clam to be..." John 8:24 and 28. It is obvious that these translations are quite correct and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as "I am" only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated "I am he" or "I am the one" like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was) spoken of throughout the Old Testament.

"I AM" in John 8:58 is equivalent to "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 according to NT/Septuagint Greek.

People are recorded in Scripture saying "I am", such as the man blind from birth (John 9:1) unto whom Jesus gave sight (John 9:2-7), the man about whom the people were saying things like "Is not this the one who used to sit and beg" (John 9:8) and "This is he" and "No, but he is like him" (John 9:9), and the man previously seen by some others as a beggar repeatedly said "I am the one" (John 9:9).

The beggar in John 9 claims not perpetual existence prior to Abraham; on the other hand, Lord Jesus does.

Truly, Lord Jesus Christ declares His perpetual existence prior to Abraham with "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Nobody recorded in Scripture makes the declaration that Jesus makes about Himself.

Now it's time to dispel with your delusion about Greek.

In Greek, the complete John 8:58 reads:

Εἴπεν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἐγώ εἰμι.

IN JOHN 8:58, "ἐγώ εἰμι" TRANSLATES ACCURATELY TO "I AM".

In the Septuagint, the complete Exodus 3:14 reads:

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰµι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν µε πρὸς ὑµᾶς.

IN EXODUS 3:14, "Ἐγώ εἰµι" TRANSLATES ACCURATELY TO "I AM".

The definitions for these two Greek words:

Strong's Greek: 1473. ἐγώ (egó) -- I (only expressed when emphatic)

Strong's Greek: 1510. εἰμί (eimi) -- I exist, I am

The "Ἐγώ εἰµι" in Exodus 3:14 matches the "ἐγώ εἰμι" in John 8:58.

In John 8:58, Jesus declares Himself to be "I AM the One" (Exodus 3:14, Ἐγώ εἰµι ὁ ὤν" in Septuagint), YHWH God.

The context of Jesus' words are absolutely Spiritually clear that He is YHWH God as previously demonstrated.

"My Lord and my God" testified the Apostle Thomas to Jesus Christ (John 20:28), so Apostolic teaching is that Jesus Christ is YHWH God.

@Michiah-Imla and @Aunty Jane both of you are as confused as Peterlag, after all, you liked Peterlag's confused post.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

 

[Peterlag]

Brace yourself: the Catholic church actually denies Jesus Christ came "in the flesh" and is why the Bible identifies the Papacy as "Antichrist". How so?

It has to do with the doctrine of the "Immaculate Conception", which surprisingly doesn't have a thing to do with Jesus - it's about the birth of MARY. Mary, it is claimed by them, was born "without any stain of original sin" like the rest of us, making her flesh "different" flesh from ours. And, since Jesus' Father was perfect, and His mother's flesh was "without stain" therefore "different", they claim Jesus did indeed come "in the flesh" BUT NOT THE SAME FLESH".

And, here is the foundation for the necessity of the Intercession of Mary...because as they teach:

"As no man cometh to the Father except through the Son, no man cometh to the Son except through MARY".

Mother Theresa said, "No Mary, NO JESUS".​

According to them, Jesus is unapproachable because His flesh is not the SAME flesh as ours. The Bible plainly says, "He Himself likewise took part of the SAME flesh". They claim the anger of Jesus is only assuaged by "Mary baring the breasts that gave Him suck". They've actually got paintings of her doing just that. What a horrifically sick doctrine, but should not surprise us, seeing that it comes from Satan's headquarters in Rome.

“The sinner that ventures directly to Christ may come with dread and apprehension of his wrath: but let him only employ the mediation of the Virgin with her Son and she has only to show that Son the breasts that gave him suck and his wrath will immediately be appeased." The Catholic Laymann, July, 1856 174​

We agree on this stuff.

 

[Phoneman777]

LOL She just quoted Scripture directly saying that only YHWH is God and for no apparent reason, a direct quote from Scripture is insufficient for you to think past your indoctrination. What set of words would qualify that Jesus is not God in any manner shape or form? For me, the fact that he died is precisely the 'something else' you seek since God is eternal and unchanging and death is the greatest change a life form can undergo.

How about you look at all the texts, instead of reading one and closing the Bible?

The OT says YHWH is the Shepherd.
The NT says Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
Scripture says there's only ONE Shepherd.

The OT says YHWH is the Rock.
The NT says that Rock was Christ.
Scripture says there's only ONE Rock.

The OT says YHWH is the Judge.
The NT says we must all stand before the Judgment seat of Christ.
Scripture says there's only ONE Judge.

The OT says YHWH is the Lawgiver.
The NT says blessed are they which do Jesus' commandments.
Scripture says there's only ONE Lawgiver.

The OT says YHWH is the Mighty God.
The NT says Jesus is the promised child named "the Mighty God".
Scripture says there's only ONE God.

Thomas said "TO HIM", JESUS...Thomas wasn't staring up at the Father in heaven...he wasn't cursing like a sailor - the man had better religion than that...Thomas said "UNTO HIM (JESUS), MY YHWH AND MY GOD"

 

[Peterlag]

• But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
• Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

That's why.

I will take that as a no.

 

[RLT63]

"I AM" in John 8:58 is equivalent to "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 according to NT/Septuagint Greek.

People are recorded in Scripture saying "I am", such as the man blind from birth (John 9:1) unto whom Jesus gave sight (John 9:2-7), the man about whom the people were saying things like "Is not this the one who used to sit and beg" (John 9:8) and "This is he" and "No, but he is like him" (John 9:9), and the man previously seen by some others as a beggar repeatedly said "I am the one" (John 9:9).

The beggar in John 9 claims not perpetual existence prior to Abraham; on the other hand, Lord Jesus does.

Truly, Lord Jesus Christ declares His perpetual existence prior to Abraham with "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Nobody recorded in Scripture makes the declaration that Jesus makes about Himself.

Now it's time to dispel with your delusion about Greek.

In Greek, the complete John 8:58 reads:

Εἴπεν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἐγώ εἰμι.

IN JOHN 8:58, "ἐγώ εἰμι" TRANSLATES ACCURATELY TO "I AM".

In the Septuagint, the complete Exodus 3:14 reads:

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰµι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν µε πρὸς ὑµᾶς.

IN EXODUS 3:14, "Ἐγώ εἰµι" TRANSLATES ACCURATELY TO "I AM".

The definitions for these two Greek words:

Strong's Greek: 1473. ἐγώ (egó) -- I (only expressed when emphatic)

Strong's Greek: 1510. εἰμί (eimi) -- I exist, I am

The "Ἐγώ εἰµι" in Exodus 3:14 matches the "ἐγώ εἰμι" in John 8:58.

In John 8:58, Jesus declares Himself to be "I AM the One" (Exodus 3:14, Ἐγώ εἰµι ὁ ὤν" in Septuagint), YHWH God.

The context of Jesus' words are absolutely Spiritually clear that He is YHWH God as previously demonstrated.

"My Lord and my God" testified the Apostle Thomas to Jesus Christ (John 20:28), so Apostolic teaching is that Jesus Christ is YHWH God.

@Michiah-Imla and @Aunty Jane both of you are as confused as Peterlag, after all, you liked Peterlag's confused post.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) and the Word of God says "I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever" (1 Chronicles 17:14), so according to the Word, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past and will exist in eternity future which means the Word is uncreated thus the Word proclaims that the Word is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past and future (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus is God with us per the Apostle (Matthew 1:23), so Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8)!

Ditto

 

[Peterlag]

How did evil spirits recognize him?

They knew who the son was. They know who I am too.

 

[atpollard]

I will take that as a no.

Of course you will.

 

[Phoneman777]

I don't know what these 'ye's' are but 'I am" is something many people say. A better translation is if you do not believe I am who I say, which is the Son of God, then you will die in your sins.

You are just reading your trinitarian dogma into unitarian Scripture.

Oh, so Jesus a few minutes later said, "Before Abraham was, I was", right? Oh, no? He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM"? Oh, yes, He did say that. That's a funny way of speaking, right? More than funny - it's nonsensical...UNLESS YOU EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM EXISTED WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANT TO SAY.

He was saying before Abraham existed, I am the I AM, the "self-existing One".

 

[Peterlag]

Of course you will.

Meaning you don't have a verse to answer my question.