Romans 11:25-27. New prophecy about the future or old prophecy about an ongoing reality?
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How can you worship someone who is not God? That is idolatry!
CadyandZoe
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Christ existed before Bethlehem. He was the eternal Son of God, and therefore before David. Jesus testified in John 6:62, “ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before.” The Lord testified in John 8:58, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus declared, in His great intercessory petition to His Father, in John 17:5, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
You should write your own Bible just like your fellow heretics and blasphemers the JWs and Mormons. You are of "another spirit," believe in "another Jesus" and are teaching "another gospel."
So, what is the word for worship in the Old Testament and New Testament?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
With regard to his quiddity, Jesus is a man like us. Paul argued this case in the first two chapters of Hebrews. But Jesus is no ordinary man. No other man can "image" God in the way that Jesus does. No other man represents God to mankind. No other man has the authority to forgive sins, no other man speaks for the Father, no other man perfectly represents God in all the ways he is glorious, save for his divine attributes such as omniscience, etc. Jesus will always remain the first born of all creation. He will always remain king of kings and lord of Lords. Did I miss something. He does all this in his manhood, not his godhood as you suppose.
Wrong again. More heresy!
The New Testament narrative, in John 1:1-5, says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”
What does the original Greek say?
theós eén ho Lógos
This literally reads: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word”
Verse 10-14 continues, “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
This passage shows, in unmistakable language, that “the Word” is Christ. It reveals the King of Glory in all His marvellous provision, purpose and power. The reading outlines His eternal pre-existence, powerfully revealing Him as the eternal Son of God; “The same was in the beginning with God” (v 2). Whilst, Christ was man of very man, He was also God of very God. Verse 1 succinctly says, “the Word was God.” Therefore, as the second person of the Trinity, He was the eternal Creator of this world.” Verse 10 tells us, “the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
I Corinthians 8:6 says: “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
The Bible acknowledges Jesus as the Word, the Creator.
Ephesians 3:9 tells us: “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”
Colossians 1:13-17 says: “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
This passage, which is speaking of Jesus, tells us that “all things were created by him, and for him” which would clearly make Him God.
Hebrews 1:2 &10 says, “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom (or dia hos) also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.”
Firstly, as Strong’s correctly explains: the word dia (which is rightly interpreted “by” here) is “a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act.” In the case we are looking at it tells us that it was through the channel or agency of the “Son” that God “made the worlds.” This is clear and simple for those that don’t need to reinterpret it. The word hos (rendered “whom”) is simply “the relatively (sometimes demonstrative) pronoun, who, which, what, that.” There is absolutely no ground to negate the meaning of the commonly used Greek words. They show what repeated Scripture tells us that Jesus is God/Creator.
Finally, the word for “made” here is the popular Greek word poieo which simply and consistently means ‘to make or do’. These verses show the pre-existence of Christ the Son of God the Creator.
This is the only time in the Bible that this word is found.
The phrase “express image” derives from the lone Greek word charakter which means what it says: “character.” Christ is “the brightness of” God’s “glory” and the “charakter of his person.” Christ is the physical manifestation or representation of the invisible God. He is indeed the “express image” of Almighty God. Jesus is God. God physically is expressed in the person of Christ.
Hebrews 2:9-10 declares: “we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings."
Revelation 3:14 declares: “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”
The designation “faithful and true” belongs to Christ. We see that in the depiction of the Second Coming in Revelation 19:11: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.”
Revelation 4:10-11 declares: “The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.”
You, unitarians, JWs, and Mormons among others turn the man Jesus into one of the greatest phonies this world has ever known. First God creates the world then Jesus comes along 4,000 years later and claims to have created the world. I mean: hello!!!
Of course, they must dismiss this because they deny that Jesus is God. They imagine Him to simply be an exalted man. But why would God allow human beings to put their faith and trust in a mere man, regardless of how glorious his exploits? Why would God allow them to bow down and worship before this man? This is idolatry.
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Paul coined a phrase, "In him" to indicate the state of being associated with Jesus Christ as his disciple and his fellow heir. Those in him are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through his gospel, and fellow heirs of life. A review of the paragraph in question will reveal that Paul has used the phrase at least four or five times within the same context.
6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
So, given that Paul has coined the phrase "in him" to indicate the reality of being associated with Jesus Christ, and the beneficiaries of all spiritual blessings granted by God to those who are "in him", then it seems reasonable to conclude that the phrase "in him" means the same thing as it did elsewhere. 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
Translation:
For in him, resides all "the fulness" of God in his body.
The phrase "the fulness" is another phrase Paul coined, which indicates the entire body of those whom God will save throughout all history. Paul is saying that everyone who was saved by God, is saved by God and who will be saved by God will be "in Him" bodily or corporately. Paul is talking about the entire group of believers down through history taken as a whole, unified and combined into one body. He isn't talking about Jesus' own physical body.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
More heresy. You cherry pick two words that relate to us being "in Christ" and use them to dismiss Jesus being "the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” These are 2 completely different things. You are twisting Scripture to blaspheme Jesus. God forgive you!
Colossians 1:12-17 tells us: “Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
It continues in Colossians 1:19, “it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell.” All the fullness God bodily was revealed in Jesus Christ. Christ is the physical manifestation of the invisible God. Colossians 2:9 reinforces this truth, saying, “in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
The Son of God is the very image of God and the exact representation of God’s nature. The Greek word here rendered “image” is eikon meaning the resemblance or profile of God. Again, Christ is the physical manifestation of God. He is the Creator: “he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
Jesus Christ alone is Immanuel - "God with us." God has revealed Himself to mankind physically.
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What a joke. You clearly will twist any scripture presented to you that shows Jesus is God.
It says "the Word (logos) was God". So, you're trying to tell me that it says "God's plan, his script, his promise" was God? LOL. This is shameful and disgusting. May God have mercy on your soul for blatantly twisting His holy word like this.
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