Romans 11:25-27. New prophecy about the future or old prophecy about an ongoing reality?

[covenantee]

You got the wrong word. Theos is a different word than Theotetos.

One place where "theos" doesn't refer to the Father in heaven, is John 10:34 where Jesus quotes a Psalm. That Psalm refers to royalty as "gods". theoi (plural for theos)

You got the wrong word. Colossians 2:9 is theotés, not theós.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What a joke. You clearly will twist any scripture presented to you that shows Jesus is God.

It says "the Word (logos) was God". So, you're trying to tell me that it says "God's plan, his script, his promise" was God? LOL. This is shameful and disgusting. May God have mercy on your soul for blatantly twisting His holy word like this.

It says that the logos was God. We differ on what that means. You mistakenly believe that "logos" is somebody's name, like God and logos were having coffee one day and logos says to God, how about I go down and die for the sins of the world?" How about that for twisting the word?

Your interpretation is NOT based on what it says, You are reading your creed INTO the text. Get it? You seem unwilling or unable to allow "logos" to connote or denote what it does everywhere else it appears in scripture. You FORCE logos to take novel meaning to satisfy a creed, devised by sinful men, instead of developing a creed from what the Bible says.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Answer the question, and stop playing games.

That's my line.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If Jesus is not God then how was He able to forgive sins?

I didn't say Jesus was not God. I said he is not "fully God" as you claim.

 

[WPM]

That's my line.

No wonder you will not answer. You have a lot to hide. Nothing that you are claiming lines up with the Word of God. It is heresy and blasphemy.

 

[WPM]

I didn't say Jesus was not God. I said he is not "fully God" as you claim.

You did say that! You have spent days trying to disprove that biblical fact. So, is Jesus partially God?

What does "God incarnate" mean to you?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Where does scripture say it is okay for us to worship/bow the knee to anyone but God?

I don't know if such a scripture exists. That is, while the Bible doesn't seem to say one way or the other whether someone ought to bow the knee to anyone other than God, many scriptures mention the fact. We ought to worship God alone, of course. But one can not argue, from scripture that the word "worship" refers exclusively to the worship of God. Exodus 32:8 comes to mind.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No wonder you will not answer. You have a lot to hide. Nothing that you are claiming lines up with the Word of God. It is heresy and blasphemy.

Why do you make up a person with which to argue? If I had something to hide would I have responded to hundreds of posts on the subject, clearly teaching heresy according to you? You words are not rational.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I have been reading your claims, you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, now you claim he didn't exist prior to the Virgin birth, suggesting he is a human created being, it appears that you have wandered into the realm of heresy IMO

Yes, I understand. From your perspective I have wandered into the realm of heresy. But in reality, I began there. I didn't wander into it, I simply never believed the creeds as they pertain to the quiddity of Jesus. No one can be fully God and fully man because it is a logical contradiction. And I am not one to accept a contradiction for the sake of a religion.

I know some will say that it isn't supposed to make sense or that it is beyond our comprehension. Well, I studied the issue thoroughly and I read many written works by many faithful, believing Christians, who attempted to defend the Trinity Doctrine and these men firmly believed it was comprehensible and argued as if it was. None of these great theologians ever said that it was a mystery or incompressible. But after careful study I was not convinced. And once I jettisoned the creeds, my eyes were open to what the Bible was actually teaching about Jesus.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Please render Colossians 2:9 for us, substituting all of your foregoing interpretations.

Without claiming that every believer is (a) God.

But if that is in fact what you believe, then don't hesitate to express it.

Where did I say that every believer is a God?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not so. Wrong again. Anything to support your Unitarianism. You have rendered text after text meaningless in order to support your heresy and blasphemy. These texts prove the deity of Christ. He is talking about a real relationship He had with His Father before Bethlehem and He is talking about real authority He possessed before Bethlehem and before Abraham. This exposes your error.

Rumpelstiltskin syndrome.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, I understand. From your perspective I have wandered into the realm of heresy. But in reality, I began there. I didn't wander into it, I simply never believed the creeds as they pertain to the quiddity of Jesus. No one can be fully God and fully man because it is a logical contradiction. And I am not one to accept a contradiction for the sake of a religion.

I know some will say that it isn't supposed to make sense or that it is beyond our comprehension. Well, I studied the issue thoroughly and I read many written works by many faithful, believing Christians, who attempted to defend the Trinity Doctrine and these men firmly believed it was comprehensible and argued as if it was. None of these great theologians ever said that it was a mystery or incompressible. But after careful study I was not convinced. And once I jettisoned the creeds, my eyes were open to what the Bible was actually teaching about Jesus.

I appreciate you candid honesty, however I strongly disagree with your claims. I would stand with WPM and Israelite on their several post concerning their questioning and comments that I have read

In my opinion your in the realm of Jehovahs Witnesses, couple that with the many other claims made, your theology and eschatology is out of the ball park, not to be taken seriously

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It says that the logos was God. We differ on what that means. You mistakenly believe that "logos" is somebody's name, like God and logos were having coffee one day and logos says to God, how about I go down and die for the sins of the world?" How about that for twisting the word?

Your interpretation is NOT based on what it says, You are reading your creed INTO the text. Get it? You seem unwilling or unable to allow "logos" to connote or denote what it does everywhere else it appears in scripture. You FORCE logos to take novel meaning to satisfy a creed, devised by sinful men, instead of developing a creed from what the Bible says.

I don't put people on ignore, but I'm done with you. Just so you know. You are a false teacher and you shamefully deny that Jesus is God which shows that you don't know Him. I don't want anything to do with you. So, don't waste any more of your time talking to me. Your lies have been exposed thoroughly already, so I'm done with this nonsense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You did say that! You have spent days trying to disprove that biblical fact. So, is Jesus partially God?

What does "God incarnate" mean to you?

Now he's backtracking. He's trying to ignore his conscience but he knows deep down that he's wrong about this.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus is not an "abstract concept." He is a person.

That's my point exactly. But logos is an abstract concept. Therefore, John is NOT saying that "logos" is a pre-existent being.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Answer the question, and stop playing games.

I am not playing games. It is obvious to me by your responses that you have no idea what the word means.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Now he's backtracking. He's trying to ignore his conscience but he knows deep down that he's wrong about this.

I am not backtracking. I have never changed my mind on this issue.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You got the wrong word. Colossians 2:9 is theotés, not theós.

I wasn't talking about Colossians 2:9.

 

[WPM]

That's my point exactly. But logos is an abstract concept. Therefore, John is NOT saying that "logos" is a pre-existent being.

There is nothing in the scriptures saying that Jesus is divine.
He is the Word. Hello! The Word was made flesh. Hello! And the Word was God. Hello! You cannot deal with that. It totally demolishes your heresy and blasphemy.

John 1:1, 2&14 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God … And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

Here we see that the Word (Christ) was “made flesh.” The Son of God became a man. He took on human flesh to identify with man and live the life he couldn’t live. Whilst the Word existed “in the beginning with God” it was manifested physically in the person of Jesus Christ.

As the son of man Christ was born in Bethlehem, but as the Son of God He always existed.'

Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and my Father are one.”

They were one in nature, one in essence, well in heart, one in perfection, and one in power.



I Corinthians 8:6 says: “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

Read the text: all things exist through and by Jesus Christ the Son of God. The inspired text refutes your claims. He is Lord, meaning God. He carries sovereign authority and dominion over all creation and every creature. That is because he is the Creator. In Acts 10:36 Paul significantly said of “Jesus Christ,” that “he is Lord of all.”



This is a common trait performed by the cults when engaging with them. They change the original words to mean the opposite to what they are. They butcher the original language. The Greek word dia is actually a primary preposition denoting: "the channel of an act" (Strong's). Jesus was the channel whom the Father worked through. He was the Creator. How do you sleep at night knowing you are going to have to face Jesus some day and account for twisting the Word of God and deceiving people?

Hebrews 1:2 &10 says, “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom (or dia hos) also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.”

Firstly, as Strong’s correctly explains: the word dia (which is rightly interpreted “by” here) is “a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act.” In the case we are looking at it tells us that it was through the channel or agency of the “Son” that God “made the worlds.” This is clear and simple for those that don’t need to reinterpret it. The word hos (rendered “whom”) is simply “the relatively (sometimes demonstrative) pronoun, who, which, what, that.” There is absolutely no ground to negate the meaning of the commonly used Greek words. They show what repeated Scripture tells us that Jesus is God/Creator.

Finally, the word for “made” here is the popular Greek word poieo which simply and consistently means ‘to make or do’. These verses show the pre-existence of Christ the Son of God the Creator.

This is the only time in the Bible that this word is found.

The phrase “express image” derives from the lone Greek word charakter which means what it says: “character.” Christ is “the brightness of” God’s “glory” and the “charakter of his person.” Christ is the physical manifestation or representation of the invisible God. He is indeed the “express image” of Almighty God. Jesus is God. God physically is expressed in the person of Christ.

Hebrews 2:9-10 declares: “we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings."

Revelation 3:14 declares: “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”

The designation “faithful and true” belongs to Christ. We see that in the depiction of the Second Coming in Revelation 19:11: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.”

Revelation 4:10-11 declares: “The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.”




You are indeed a Unitarian. Stop denying it.

You can think anything you want. I am not a Unitarian. I do not belong to a church. I don't follow a denomination. If you continue calling me a unitarian or a JW or a Mormon, from this point forward you are not telling the truth about me.

You better sort out your HTML.

So, why have you got a pastor's link at the bottom of your posts if you are not a pastor and do not attend a church that promotes your Unitarian beliefs?

 

[CadyandZoe]

You did say that! You have spent days trying to disprove that biblical fact. So, is Jesus partially God?

I told you a long time ago, we are not talking about the quiddity of God. For some reason you wrongly believe that a denial of Jesus' deity is also a denial of his identity, i.e. God. Do you understand the difference between quiddity and identity?

The New Testament teaches us that Jesus is God incarnate. This does NOT mean that Jesus is God in a man suit. It does NOT mean that he is both fully God and fully man. This is all rubbish based on Greek philosophy.

quiddity = the "what" of a thing. When the New Testament teaches you that Jesus is God, it isn't teaching you WHAT is Jesus. It is teaching you WHO is Jesus. I deny the deity of Christ because he is a man, born to Mary in Bethlehem. He is a male human being. That is WHAT he is. The New Testament teaches you that Jesus is God. That is WHO he is. Jesus and God are not identical substance. Contrary to the creed, they are not of the same essence. Jesus and God share another kind of identity. The New Testament teaches you that Jesus is the expression of God in the medium of humanity.

To claim the deity of Jesus is to deny his humanity.