Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

[ewq1938]

The beast is the eleventh horn!

Wrong. In Daniel, the 11th horn is another horn on a beast, not a beast itself.

Teh beast of Rev. 13 is a man. Even His number declares He is a man.

There are two beasts of Rev 13. The man is the second beast while the first beast is a kingdom as Daniel 7 makes obvious.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Biblical genealogy and history suggest Adam was created around 4,000 B.C. The first believers thought the millennium would come after a six thousand year reign of Man. This timing suggests that the End is imminent. Here are 7 factors to consider.

Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

The key sign to the timing of the Rapture is:
Matthew 24:14
This has recently been accomplished, all nations have heard of Christ, not every person though, but likely every tribe even has been reached.
Also an important key is in defining the "LAST TRUMPET". Is it the 7th in Rev..11:15 or the last trumpet of the last Feast of trumpets? Ot says "trump of God" not a shofar blown by a man. And since there happens to be 7 angels blowing 7 trumpets in the end time story we might expect it to be that one.
If the Post-Tribbers were right, it would ƙbe the 8th trumpet, because that would be the end of the GT/wrath on earth.
I submit to you that the 7th Trumpet (Rev. 11:15) is the last. Why?
Many things happen at that time which would correlate to the rapture/resurrection :
* The mystery of God is revealed;
(which is Christ's Appearance, every eye sees Him)
*The kingdoms of the world become the Lord's
* The dead are resurrected and judged
* WE receive rewards (that confirms that we were just ressurrected)
* The Temple in Heaven is open
* The Bowls of God's wrath are released (meaning it is not over yet).
When you examine the events of the bowls, you will notice that from that time on, no one repents, they curse God and gather to war against Him.
We also notice that these events don't just happen in one day, they develop and accumulate over some time which may only be weeks or months. It takes time to get foul sores affecting all men, the sea turning to blood and life in the sea dying, for the rivers and springs to turn to blood, for the sun to scorch men with fire and the Euphrates river to dry up to allow forces from the east to cross and invade. Invade who? Israel, the Jews, who are still there. A great worldwide earthquake shakes the entire planet and all buildings, mountains and islands are leveled; 100 pound hailstones fall.
"And the winepress was trodden outside the city and blood came out from the winepress up to the horses bridles for a distance of two hundred miles." Rev. 14:20 This is symbolic language that represents hundreds of millions of dead people (Armageddon), which takes Israel seven months to bury.

Much of this tribulation is putting Israel through the fire, testing them; but the Church will also be tested for a portion of this tribulation -scripture proves it.
I believe that when Jesus returns, every eye will see Him and the Jews will realize He is the Messiah whom they have been waiting for. They will mourn. The two witnesses evangelize some of them prior to this event and I would imagine that the majority (2/3 of the population of the world) take the mark of the beast, so a remnant 1/3 is saved.

But one must take note that at the 5th Seal, the multitude who just had been slain just arrived in Heaven, came "out of" the Great Tribulation, that is still going on. "They called out in a loud voice, How long Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" This is not the raptured church, these are Christians that died during the Great Tribulation. And btw, Christ is with them in Heaven - He still hasn't come down yet. "...They were told to wait a little longer until the number of their fellow servants and brothers ( being persecuted by The Antichrist) who were to be killed as they had been was completed." Rev. 6:10, 11

"In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin". Rev. 18:17
This may be that hour that God promised to keep His faithful Church from.
We go through the seals and trumpets til the last trumpet.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

No, you’re saying that. Scripture says the dead rises first. The dead and the living do not rise together. You can try to spin it, but going to the clouds isn’t the blink of an eye. The change to immortality is the blink of an eye. The living go AFTER the dead and how much time is in between? We arnt told and I will not guess it.

Ahhh, in the Blink of an eye, lol, look up how long it takes for an eye blink and you will see the humor, and that you do not understand what Paul was doing. Paul said I will be ALL THINGS, to win souls for Christ. So, if they feared their loved ones was left behind, it was Paul's job to keep them in the faith, he was no a Prophet who brought "Thus saith the Lord" doctrine, he was a pastor to flocks he needed to uplift. IMHO, anyone who sees the "Blink of an Eye" and can't understand it is really the SAME TIME, just are not using common sense logic here. Look up how long it takes for an eye to blink, do it, then come back and make a real argument that the dead in Christ and living are not raised at the exact same time. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between "Thus Saith the Lord" prophets and a Pastor to a flock writing "Letters" to uplift and encourage them. Both happen at the exact same time, them MEET IN THE AIR !! To go be with Jesus in Heaven for 7 years, as the 70th week happens on earth we marry the Lamb Jesus in Heaven.

The problem is people do not understand the difference. If you actually think God sees the blink of an eye as a different tines then you see what you want to see.

THINK !! Both happen at the Last Trump.

1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So, you still want to make a case for it doesn't happen at the exact same time? Paul says this, not me. Paul some time used spin, but overall his understanding was correct because he was taught this up in the 3rd Heaven. We just have to dissect the SPIN/Encouragement and the actual events. What I do not do is just accept men's traditions, I plow down until I get the nuggets many others always seem to miss.

I use ALL THE SCRIPTURES to tie it all together, that is why I get it right: SEE BELOW:

1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, it happens at the same time, even if we are raised 5 minutes later, it is ONE TRIP, Jesus is not going to raise the dead, wait suspended in the air a few days, then CHANGE the living, as they wait a few days hanging around up in our atmosphere !! Common sense tells us these facts, Paul was trying to encourage his flocks, if its one moments difference or 5 minutes difference it is ONE EVENT, the Rapture of the Church which happens Pre Trib happens to both the Dead in Christ and the Living in Christ on the exact same day.

Mr Milan, we are not resurrected till after the heavens are no more per Job. That defeats a Pre-TB timeline without me posting numerous other reasons the Pre-TB theory is not workable. Secondly, Christ doesn’t leave heaven till the restoration of all things. That doesn’t work in a prewrath theory. If you know anything about the trumpets, understand by reading them, it’s unmaking the creation account. Genesis creates trees and grass, Revelation destroys them. Genesis creates life in the sea and rivers; Revelation destroys life in both when turned to blood. All things are removed to leave what cannot be shaken behind.

I agree with you that there is great spiritual darkness. And we need to be watchful and on guard. If you want numerous reasons why Pre-TB is not a solid working theory, I’ll happily present it. But don’t ask if you don’t care, ask if you’re curious and actually searching for truth. As you said, there’s false things everywhere. It can even be in ones church!

Now, you have very little choice but to say I am correct on this.

The ABOVE SCRIPTURES just proved this to be in error, the Dead and Living are all raised at the exact saw time, Pre Trib.

The Rapture being imminent does not fit with the Second Comings timing, we know when the Second Coming happens, 1260 days after the Beast comes to power.

I do not think you understand what "The Last Trump" means my friend. The Feast of Trumps always ended the Harvest (Think Church Age). Jesus will fulfill all 7 Feasts, they were called holy convocations (Dress Rehearsals). So, Israel were practicing these Feasts which were God telling them how the whole history of Israel and the world would play out. Jesus would/will fulfill all 7 of these Feasts.

Spring Feasts Jesus fulfilled

1.) Passover (Jesus' blood fulfills this of course)
2.) Unleavened Bread (Jesus knew no sin, he was unleavened)
3.) First-fruits (Jesus was the first-fruits of the grave, he overcame death)

Summer Harvest (Church Age)

4.) Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/Summer Harvest/Church Age ( This feast was all alone on the calendar, just like the Gentile Church Age is all alone in these 7 Feasts. Jesus is the head or high priest, we are the body saving or harvesting souls for God. The Feast of Trumps always ended the Summer Harvest!! But the DETAILS are enthralling!! It has to do with what "The Last Trump" actually means, not what most think it means. So, there was a reason Jesus stated that no one can know the Exact DAY nor HOUR of him rapturing the Church, that is because the Church Age Harvest is ended by the Last Trump (think Feast of Trumps) and Paul was referring unto this. So, how did the Summer Harvest always end? Well, since Israel was on a Lunar Calendar (God Time) they could not know the exact day nor hour in which the New Moon would usher in the New Year and thus end the Summer Harvest !! Get it now? On the Gregorian Calendar all of these things are a known entity, but not on the Lunar Calendar. They could know THE SEASON but not the exact day nor hour.

So, the Israeli leaders sent up two witnesses to spy out when the new moon came in, as soon as they saw it they sent ack word, then the Israeli leaders sent word to start blowing the Trumps or Shofars via the Feast of Trumps. They blew in 9 sets of 11, or 99 times, then on the "Last Trump" the Shofar blew LONGER & LOUDER than the other 99 and this officially ended the Summer Harvest (Think Church Age). So, the Last Trump Paul was referring unto is not even understood by most tbh. Basically the Last Trump ends the Church Age. Jesus is fulfilling the Harvest of Souls which will be his bride, via the Gentile Church Age period, and then he also fulfills the Feast of Trumps by calling the Church home (see Rev. 4:1).

Fall Feasts soon to be fulfilled

5.) Feast of Trumps (Jesus fulfills this also, he ends the Summer Harvest and the Feast of Trumps signifies that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacles are nigh at hand.)

6.) Feast of Atonement (Who needs to Atone before the 70th week can end according to Daniel 9:24-27? Israel of course, and Zechariah 13:8-9 shows that 1/3 (5 million) repents just BEFORE the Day of the Lord arrives in Zechariah 14:1. So, Jesus' blood now fulfills this Feast also, just like he fulfilled the other five feasts before this.)

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (to tabernacle simply means to DWELL with God, and since Jesus rules from Jerusalem for 1000 years and he is God I would say that qualifies for TABERNACLING with God wouldn't you? So, Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts, and the Last Trump is really nothing like you actually think. )

As pe the Pre Trib Rapture, that is the most easy understanding to me, the TIMING of nothing else comes even close to working. I have been called unto Prophecy 37 years. If I only know one thing in all of life it is End Time Eschatology.

God Bless.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Paul's job to keep them in the faith, he was no a Prophet who brought "Thus saith the Lord" doctrine, he was a pastor to flocks he needed to uplift.

What? All scripture is GOD'S WORD, EVERY WORD. PAUL was a prophet. God spoke through him.. Paul gave us future prophesies as well.

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between "Thus Saith the Lord" prophets and a Pastor to a flock writing "Letters" to uplift and encourage them

The huge difference exists in your mind.
"knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:20-21

 

[No Pre-TB]

So, it happens at the same time, even if we are raised 5 minutes later,

Mr Milam,

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

First: firstly (in time, place, order, or importance)
Brown puts it:
it simply stands in opposition to "then," 1Th 4:17. FIRST, "the dead in Christ" shall rise, THEN the living shall be caught up. The Lord's people alone are spoken of here.

There is an order to the event. First signifies the dead rise and are changed first before the living. It is not simultaneous. Then, after the dead have risen and changed, only then and sometime after them will the alive be changed and:
caught up together with them in the clouds,

The dead are already risen in the clouds, we meet them in the clouds and form the completed body of Christ to whom we meet together; the living and dead. There is nothing about a simultaneous resurrection and rapture.

the Dead and Living are all raised at the exact saw time, Pre Trib.

No, as I just shown they are not. The words "first" take precedent over the following word "then" showing an order.

As pe the Pre Trib Rapture, that is the most easy understanding to me, the TIMING of nothing else comes even close to working. I have been called unto Prophecy 37 years. If I only know one thing in all of life it is End Time Eschatology.

That is because people have not written well defined books on other things. I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree with your last statement. There are countless reasons why Pre-TB is wrong. I am currently discussing this with the other Ronald (Nolette). Feel free to read that discourse.

Edit: On the previous mention of in a twinkling of an eye,

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

The change happens in an instant. It's not we go up in the air in an instant. Please understand that.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ronald Milam,

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Cor. 3:16-17

>> We are already a new creature, a spiritual creature. God doesn’t live in our flesh, He lives with us in our spirit. We are alive in Christ so when our physical bodies die, we are still alive in Christ, conscious beings, new creatures, in heaven.

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Rom. 8:9-11

>> We are not in the flesh, we are in the Spirit and the Spirit is in us, just also Jesus said the Father is in Him and He in the Father. It is the spiritual realm. You can’t be very spiritual if you don’t believe you have a spirit that is not your physical body. Your spirit does not sleep.

>>> What scriptures meant was a reference to the lifeless physical body and soul _ asleep _ and waiting for the resurrection. Remember also that when Jesus referred to them sleeping, their spirit was still dead, they were not yet born again, a new creature prior to His resurrection and Pentacost <<<

And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Acts 7:59

>> Stephen went directly to be with the Lord.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15:53

>> We have put on immortality. There is no unconsious period of time after death, we are alive, there is no spiritual sleep state.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:8-10

>> We have been saved, (past tense, a done deal) we are His workmanship, we have life and death does not separate us from eternal life.

having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”Peter 1:23

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

>> We have eternal life now, we do not have to go to sleep and go out of existence.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. John 11:25

>> We die physically and still have eternal spiritual life.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald, I am not reinterpreting anything. I’m taking into account what is written, looking into the context, the Greek and parallel scriptures to understand and prayer. I also attend a church that styles itself as a “Fundamental Bible Believing Baptist Church”, though I agree on most things in my church (98%?), eschatology is one I do not.

Well I do the same and it is funny we come to vastly differing conclusions. But if you did take Scripture as written, you would not ccome to the ose conclusions we differ on. There is just no room unless one allegorizes or moves scriptures about inn their order.

I wasn’t aware we were racing against each other
I’m not a spring chicken either Ronald.

We aren't!1 You suggested I study other perspectives and I was showing you I do! At one time I had over 60 books on Eschatology that I had read!

Can you please show me scripturally where men rise from the sea? Because I’ve already showed you men rise from the earth and kingdoms from the sea.

And I showed you that when sea is used symbolically- it speaks off the gentiles. so this beast rises out of the gentiles. If you wish to kw the summary of this man.

He has powers from these ancient kingdoms.

1. Babylon mouth of lion
2. Medeo Persia- feet of a bear
3. beast leopard like -Greece
4. 10 horns- the ten kings who yield to him as the eleventh horn.

Reasons why it cannot be a govt. or empire.

Satan already has given his power and authority to many kingdoms through history.
What kingdom or govt (7 heads) was killed and revived!
This beast is cast alive with the false prophet into the lake of fire. Only people and spirit beings will be cast into the lake of fire- no govts. will.

Dan. 9 and Matt. 24 both speakk of a man commencing the great tribulation period (the last 42 months.) In rev. 13 we see someone (not thing)
speak great things agaainst god for 42 months.

How does one make and image of a govt. come alive??????????????????????? How does one make it speak????????

And Sorry, but your proof texts that men only arise out of the earth is flawed. The four beasts arise from both the sea and the earth ion Dan. 7.

The final form of the gentile rule Jesus called as the time of the gentiles culminates in the Antichrist who is the final world ruler.

He vanquishes three of the previous ten horns (He being the eleventh) and rules the world spiritually as well as militarily and politically.

But if you insist it being a form of govt. The which of the seven heads was wounded to death?

also:

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Since the final govt. rules the e world, it is a foolish statement to say th efalse prophet exercises the powwer of the first beast before him. for Everywhere on earth would be before Him and this statement does limit the false prophets power to certain geography! When He is in the presence of the first beast.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wrong. In Daniel, the 11th horn is another horn on a beast, not a beast itself.




There are two beasts of Rev 13. The man is the second beast while the first beast is a kingdom as Daniel 7 makes obvious.

So you do not believe there will be a man known as the antichrist? that it is a govt. and not a man?

 

[ewq1938]

So you do not believe there will be a man known as the antichrist? that it is a govt. and not a man?

Are you not reading my posts? I said, "The man is the second beast while the first beast is a kingdom as Daniel 7 makes obvious."

 

[Taken]

Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider
OP^

I would say that God likely considered...
* The New Earth size, (void of Oceans)
Currently is approx. 196,900,000 sq mi. (Including Oceans)
* Number of all people ever born, Few shall be saved.
* Number of all Saved people.
* Number of Each Saved person’s Land allotment.
* Abraham’s Promised Land is approx. 60,000 sq miles.
...^^ Christ Jesus’ Inheritance. (“Sons earthly Kingdom”)
* After millennial reign...Gods Kingdom ON Earth & Heaven.

When...probably when person quota is realized.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Are you not reading my posts? I said, "The man is the second beast while the first beast is a kingdom as Daniel 7 makes obvious."

So describe for me in Revelation who is the antichrist!

And how does God throw a kingdom into the lake of fire?

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Throws a man and a kingdom?

God calls the beast him 3X why won't you? You think God and all them Greek scholars don't know what they do?

 

[ewq1938]

So describe for me in Revelation who is the antichrist!

The second beast, the man who performs miracles.

And how does God throw a kingdom into the lake of fire?

The same way it was done in Daniel.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

The beast with ten horns has always been a kingdom. It's always, always the next person who is identified in the story that is the AC, little horn in Daniel and FP in Rev.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Throws a man and a kingdom?

Yes and eventually a dragon!

God calls the beast him 3X why won't you? You think God and all them Greek scholars don't know what they do?

Actually I know exactly what they are doing because I have some Greek education. Neuter nouns are translated as it or him, usually him but that doesn't make the noun a human being nor male. We all know something that is neuter is neither male or female. The beast is neuter in the Greek because being male or female is irrelevant as it is merely symbolism for something else.

 

[Taken]

Hahaha!!!!!
1970’s fail. Goal post moved

1980’s fail. Goal post moved

2018 fail. No 70yr fig tree birth. Goal post moved. You can still google it and find that garbage.

2028? Waiting on the 80yr fail. Will be here for it. Let’s “move that goal post one more time”. Thanks Brittany

@WPM

A lot of pre-mils guessing the dates of the Rapture? No doubt men have wondered WHEN since Jesus’ Day on earth....the Guessing and Silliness to Name the Year...
more so fringe groups.

 

[No Pre-TB]

And I showed you that when sea is used symbolically- it speaks off the gentiles.

Please supply me the verse that proves a man rises from the sea

Also, I am repasting the below (from #120) since you did not respond to it.


First question, I’ve asked this before without a response:
Job 14:12
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

How does a resurrection of the dead and a rapture happen in Rev 4:1, according to Pre-TB, if the Heavens haven’t been removed and the first seal hasn’t been opened yet?

A commentary by Benson says,
That is, until the time of the general resurrection and restitution of all things, when these visible heavens shall pass away, and be no more, at least in the same form in which they are now.

I await your response.
Edit: You can view thru 2 Peter 3:7

 

[ewq1938]

Please supply me the verse that proves a man rises from the sea

They are ignoring the origin of John's ten horned beast from Daniel 7, which is a kingdom not a man. This same kingdom is alive, is killed, and given to flame in the text. Kingdoms can be alive and be killed in a symbolic sense. One has to ignore all of Daniel 7 to come up with a ten horned beast being a man not a kingdom.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

The use of "his body" here does not make this 4th kingdom a human being.

 

[No Pre-TB]

They are ignoring the origin of John's ten horned beast from Daniel 7, which is a kingdom not a man. This same kingdom is alive, is killed, and given to flame in the text. Kingdoms can be alive and be killed in a symbolic sense. One has to ignore all of Daniel 7 to come up with a ten horned beast being a man not a kingdom.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

The use of "his body" here does not make this 4th kingdom a human being.

I dont understand how people cannot see it. I know we all didnt see it till we did, including you and I. But it was never painted for me by someone. We are presenting it just as scripture says it and people are blind to it. It amazes me.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes and that is not the sounding of the seventh trumpet.

The church stays in heaven for that is where Jesus promised we would be!

According to Scripture it does stop sounding. Check the verbs in Greek and understand.

The 7th Trumpet has a starting point and a stopping point. Of course it stops sounding when God tells the angel to stop sounding.

What is not the 7th Trumpet?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So describe for me in Revelation who is the antichrist!

And how does God throw a kingdom into the lake of fire?

It's not a literal lake of fire. It's symbolic. Notice what it says in this verse:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

How can death and Hades be literally thrown into the lake of fire? That's not possible. You're missing the symbolism and taking it too literally.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The beast is the eleventh horn!

The beast is the eleventh horn!

Good stuff........Double reply, oh well.

He is indeed the 11th Horn (kind of) as per he is not of the 10 which doesn't mean 10 it means Completion. Thus we could say the Little Horn, is born AMONGST ( or born in the E.U.) the 10 which is the Complete European Nations Reunified. The 10 (Completion) now adds up to about 25 nations, so anyone looking for 10 is going to miss it.

and the ten horns are ten kings!

Which still means Completion, this is also why we have a kingdom that is partly strong and partly weak, we have Latvia, Malta, Croatia, Luxemburg, Cypress etc. et. and we have Spain, Germany, England (maybe, or they could be the 3 kings who pull back), Belgium, France etc. So, we do not have a regular type of Beast Kingdom where one nation, led by one man brings the masses under his umbrella, this this becomes a factual prophetic utterance.

Dan. 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings (E.U. Reunified as one) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them;(A.C./Little Horn) and he shall be diverse from the first(Rome), and he shall subdue three kings.

See it? This MAN you speak of, will have a kingdom much different from Rome. Whereas Rome was a Kingdom won via Wars, this last beast will be given his power by other men via elections (the E.U. Parliament).

Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet;(no Beast Kingdom, means they only Conquer the Mediterranean Sea Region when they appoint the A.C.)but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

So, the E.U., unlike Rome who conquered everyone, will appoint a man via an Election, then they enter into Peace Agreements with Israel and MANY NATIONS (in the Mediterranean). That is when they conquer, from a strong base, meanwhile Rome had to conquer all of Europe before they conquered the Mediterranean. The Last Beast comes about not by old fashioned Royalty, but via a vote in the E.U. Parliament.

Teh beast of Rev. 13 is a man. Even His number declares He is a man.

You get it. But I really do not think he has a name that adds up to 666, God uses numbers to tell us stuff. He times numbers like 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 to emphasize Fulness x Completion. Here, I used to look for that number name also, but when I finally saw how God used numbers, the 10 Commandments are a stand in for all God's laws and 10 Plagues bring complete Judgment etc. etc. I then understood that 666 is just God telling us the most important information about the Last Beast, that he is a Human Being, not a Kingdom like Rome, Babylon, Persia or Greece. And 6 is mans number, so 666 simply emphasizes that factoid, where we will not be hoodwinked, thus we are all looking for a MAN. So, I think it worked. In Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 both passages tells us the Beast is a man who will be cast into hellfire.

 

[No Pre-TB]

He is indeed the 11th Horn

Let's look at this logically.

If the beast of the sea is the 11th horn as you contend, then the beast of the sea is also the 1st horn, the 2nd horn...all 10 horns. Why is that? Its sounds crazy!
Because all 10 horns are on the beast of the sea, as also the 11th will be. If you're adamant about the beast of the sea being the 11th horn, he is also the first 10 horns as well which doesn't make sense.

How does the Antichrist equal 10 men and not 1? With your logic, it makes no sense. You still refuse to look at scripture objectively and and notice that we are told in Daniel 7, the beast that rises from the sea is a kingdom per Daniel 7:23 and you still refuse to see that the people that rule these kingdoms (4 beast's of the sea) rise from the earth as shown in Daniel 7:17

What does it say?

These four great beasts are four kings who will arise from the earth.

These 4 beasts? Is it referring back to Daniel 7:3? No. The wording here in Daniel 7:17 is confusing in the KJV. The 4 beasts rise from the earth are the 4 kings that rule over the 4 beasts that rise from the sea.

You have 4 great beasts that rise from the sea identified as:
1. Babylonian Kingdom
2. Persian Kingdom
3. Grecian Kingdom
4. Future Kingdom

Then in Daniel 7:17 explains that there are also 4 kings, and they identify these kings as 4 beasts that rise from the earth (not the sea).
Therefore, we have 4 beasts that rise from the sea = Kingdoms
And we have 4 beasts that rise from the earth = Kings of these kingdoms

1. Babylonian Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (Nebuchadnezzar)
2. Persian Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (Cyrus)
3. Grecian Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (Antiochus Epiphanes)
4. Future Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (False Prophet)

There is only 1 beast of the sea in Revelation and only 1 beast that rises from the earth to rule that Kingdom.