Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

[Ronald Nolette]

The second beast, the man who performs miracles.





The same way it was done in Daniel.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

The beast with ten horns has always been a kingdom. It's always, always the next person who is identified in the story that is the AC, little horn in Daniel and FP in Rev.





Yes and eventually a dragon!



Actually I know exactly what they are doing because I have some Greek education. Neuter nouns are translated as it or him, usually him but that doesn't make the noun a human being nor male. We all know something that is neuter is neither male or female. The beast is neuter in the Greek because being male or female is irrelevant as it is merely symbolism for something else.

Well, the ten horns are ten kingdoms as well as ten kings.

I also have Greek education. Neuter nouns are neuter because they are not specifically male or female. If it is personal, context will determine if a personal or impersonal pronoun is used. Gobs and Gobs of Greek scholars who are far smarter than us have put a him there! so, you are saying those with masters and phds in Koine Greek are wrong! OK then.

Now you have the antichrist as the false prophet and the eleventh horn.. So you have the false prophet as a king who overthrows 3 kings and the other 7 kings give their allegiance to the false prophet.

The beast in Daniel is a him! You need to show why it is a concept and not a person.

Remember government (kingdom) is an incorporeal thing with no body or substance. It is a concept of power and governance. so how does government get a body?????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Please supply me the verse that proves a man rises from the sea

Also, I am repasting the below (from #120) since you did not respond to it.


First question, I’ve asked this before without a response:
Job 14:12
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

How does a resurrection of the dead and a rapture happen in Rev 4:1, according to Pre-TB, if the Heavens haven’t been removed and the first seal hasn’t been opened yet?

A commentary by Benson says,
That is, until the time of the general resurrection and restitution of all things, when these visible heavens shall pass away, and be no more, at least in the same form in which they are now.

I await your response.
Edit: You can view thru 2 Peter 3:7

I gave you the verse from Isaiah that shows the gentiles are as the roaring sea.

If you accept Job as the final authority, then John was a false prophet!

Again, I never i9mplied REv. 4:1 is either a resurrection or the rapture. I do not believe they are either---again.

But you have a problem.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

John definitely declares a first then a second resurrection!

As for Job it also denies this:

REv. 20:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 7th Trumpet has a starting point and a stopping point. Of course it stops sounding when God tells the angel to stop sounding.

What is not the 7th Trumpet?

Everything that happens with the vials. They are not the seventh trumpet.

Nowhere does it say teh seventh angel keeps on sounding.

Teh seventh angel introduces the seven vials just like the seventh seal introduced the seven trumpets.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It's not a literal lake of fire. It's symbolic. Notice what it says in this verse:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

How can death and Hades be literally thrown into the lake of fire? That's not possible. You're missing the symbolism and taking it too literally.

I guess Jesus didn't catch the symbolism either.

He warned about people being tormented in flames., John warns that those who take the mark will be tormented in flames.

The rich man in the account of Lazarus the beggar is tormented in flames. I will take their word over yours, sorry!

How death and teh grave are cast into teh lake of fire- I don't know. Neither do you.

If the lake of fire is symbolic, what is it symbolic of?

Why do these people suffer flames in the presence of angels and Jesus?

Who told teh unsaved what this non flame flame means?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Good stuff........Double reply, oh well.

He is indeed the 11th Horn (kind of) as per he is not of the 10 which doesn't mean 10 it means Completion. Thus we could say the Little Horn, is born AMONGST ( or born in the E.U.) the 10 which is the Complete European Nations Reunified. The 10 (Completion) now adds up to about 25 nations, so anyone looking for 10 is going to miss it.


Which still means Completion, this is also why we have a kingdom that is partly strong and partly weak, we have Latvia, Malta, Croatia, Luxemburg, Cypress etc. et. and we have Spain, Germany, England (maybe, or they could be the 3 kings who pull back), Belgium, France etc. So, w do not have a regular type of Beast Kingdom where one nation, led by one man brings the masses under his umbrella, this this becomes a factual prophetic utterance.

Dan. 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings (E.U. Reunified as one) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them;(A.C./Little Horn) and he shall be diverse from the first(Rome), and he shall subdue three kings.

See it? This MAN you speak of, will have a kingdom much different from Rome. Whereas Rome was a Kingdom won via Wars, this last beast will be given his power by other me via elections (the E.U. Parliament).

Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet;(no Beast Kingdom, means they only Conquer the Mediterranean Sea Region when they appoint the A.C.)but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

So, the E.U., unlike Rome who conquered everyone, will appoint a man via an Election, then they enter into Peace Agreements with Israel and MANY NATION (in the Mediterranean). That is when they conquer, from a strong base, meanwhile Rome had to conquer all of Europe before they conquered the Mediterranean. The Last Beast comes about not by old fashion ed Royalty, but via a vote in the E.U. Parliament.


You get it. But I really do not think he has a name that adds up to 666, God uses numbers to tell us stuff. he times numbers like 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 to emphasize Fulness x Completion. Here, I used to look for that number name also, but when I finally saw how God used numbers, the 10 Commandments are a stand in fir all God's laws and 10 Plagues bring complete Judgment etc. etc. I then understood that 666 is just God telling us the most important information about the Last Beast, that he is a Human Being, not a Kingdom like Rome, Babylon, Persia or Greece. And 6 is mans number, so 666 simply emphasizes that factoid, where we will not be hoodwinked, this we are all looking for a MAN. So, I think it worked. In Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 both passages tells us the Beast is a man who will be cast into hellfire.

Good answer. Just one mistake. the ten horns are not some new revived Roman Empire or EU.

Teh ten horns arise from the fourth beast, which has been in power since Rome. At one point the fourth beast will rule the world as per Daniel 7. this one world govt. will fail and from that will arise ten kings who rule the world and not just Europe.

That is a very common mistake among us dispensationalists.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I gave you the verse from Isaiah that shows the gentiles are as the roaring sea.

Where? I keep asking for the book and the Ch. and verse.
Isaiah what?

If you accept Job as the final authority, then John was a false prophet!

What type of copout is that? Job is just as useful as any other part of the Bible. Really, you're avoiding it because you cannot answer it.

Again, I never i9mplied REv. 4:1 is either a resurrection or the rapture. I do not believe they are either---again.

Thats good, but the majority Pre-TB proponents do. And that single verse, among others as well, demonstrate their idea of Rev 4:1 is false.

So, where do you place the resurrection and rapture?

John definitely declares a first then a second resurrection!

Not sure why you bring that up? We never debated it with each other. I agree, there are 2 resurrections as Revelation, Daniel and other places point out.

 

[No Pre-TB]

If the lake of fire is symbolic, what is it symbolic of?

How do you think sheol or the realm of dead spirits gets thrown into the lake of fire? You said earlier you understand proper hermeneutics. There are many different rules such as scripture validates scripture. If we take this literally and see nothing out of place as the words do not seem odd:

Do you think a literal realm of the dead will be physically moved and dropped into the lake of fire? Its an easy Yes or No.

 

[ewq1938]

Well, the ten horns are ten kingdoms as well as ten kings.

I also have Greek education. Neuter nouns are neuter because they are not specifically male or female. If it is personal, context will determine if a personal or impersonal pronoun is used. Gobs and Gobs of Greek scholars who are far smarter than us have put a him there! so, you are saying those with masters and phds in Koine Greek are wrong! OK then.

No, I am saying you are wrong. A personal pronoun does not equal a person being spoken of. If you had some Greek education you would know that already.

Now you have the antichrist as the false prophet and the eleventh horn..
So you have the false prophet as a king who overthrows 3 kings and the other 7 kings give their allegiance to the false prophet.

There is no 11th horn in Rev and there isn't any overthrowing of 3 of the 10 horns either. You are confusing Rev with Daniel. They don't prophecy the same things.

The beast in Daniel is a him! You need to show why it is a concept and not a person.

The 4 beasts in Daniel are kingdoms not 4 people. Only the little horn is a person in Daniel 7.

All you had to do is read Daniel to understand this:

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.


The 4th kingdom with ten horns is a kingdom! That means the Rev 13:1 ten horned beast is also a kingdom!

Remember government (kingdom) is an incorporeal thing with no body or substance. It is a concept of power and governance. so how does government get a body?????

Symbolism. That's how a river gets a mouth and wind has a voice etc.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Where? I keep asking for the book and the Ch. and verse.
Isaiah what?


What type of copout is that? Job is just as useful as any other part of the Bible. Really, you're avoiding it because you cannot answer it.


Thats good, but the majority Pre-TB proponents do. And that single verse, among others as well, demonstrate their idea of Rev 4:1 is false.

So, where do you place the resurrection and rapture?


Not sure why you bring that up? We never debated it with each other. I agree, there are 2 resurrections as Revelation, Daniel and other places point out.

Revelation 17:15

King James Version

​

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.


JOb and John on the surface disagree. so John is wrong if you accept Job as literal. It is you that is copping out for not seeing that.

I do not care how many pre tribbers use John being caught up as a symbol of the rapture. Majority doesn't make right. Right makes right.

The rapture can happen anytime between now and the signing of the 7 year covenant between the AC and the many of Israel. The resurrection of church saints take place at the rapture. Of trib saints after jesus returns, of the lost, at the end of the thousand years, exactly as told in Scripture.

rules such as scripture validates scripture. If we take this literally and see nothing out of place as the words do not seem odd:

Do you think a literal realm of the dead will be physically moved and dropped into the lake of fire? Its an easy Yes or No.

Revelation 20:12-14

King James Version

​

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Well answer me first what the lake of fire is symbolic of. I asked that. then we can move on to how death and hell can be destroyed by the lake of fire. Where do the lost go to suffer for eternity if the lake of fire is symbolic?

 

[No Pre-TB]

so John is wrong if you accept Job as literal.

That verse does not say men rise from the sea as opposed to the earth. What verse says verbatim men “rise from the sea” as shown in Daniel 7 and elsewhere men/kings/false prophet “rise from the earth”!

The rapture can happen anytime between now and the signing of the 7 year covenant between the AC and the many of Israel.

The idea of immanence is proven false. How could Christ come any day if Peter had known how he’d die. Surely there was no imminent return till after that. And how is it imminent if a apostasia must come first and the man of sin revealed? No immanence there either. How it he imminent if the restoration hasn’t happened yet?
How is he imminent if Paul said rest with us when he will be revealed in flaming fire if Paul is dead? The only rest Paul could speak of would be the resurrection cause none of them is alive and the 2nd Advent hasn’t happened yet.

The resurrection of church saints take place at the rapture.

No. The resurrection of saints happens at the resurrection of the just. The rapture of those alive and who remain, another word for survive, is after it. First resurrection, THEN harpazo.

Well answer me first what the lake of fire is symbolic of. I asked that. then we can move on to how death and hell can be destroyed by the lake of fire. Where do the lost go to suffer for eternity if the lake of fire is symbolic?

I asked you a question and instead you sidestep and ask me instead. Ok Ronald. The lake of fire resembles final destruction or final removal of wickedness. Death and Hades thrown into it demonstrate their finality and removal. It is the means of punishment and complete removal of impurity. It stands in contrast to the pit where the souls still exist; the lake of fire as an emblem of final removal. Fire is always an emblem of purifying or of burning till nothing is left but ash.

 

[Timtofly]

Everything that happens with the vials. They are not the seventh trumpet.

Nowhere does it say teh seventh angel keeps on sounding.

Teh seventh angel introduces the seven vials just like the seventh seal introduced the seven trumpets.

The 7th Seal is not split into two halves. The 7th Seal is not a week long event. The 7th Seal is not Daniel 9:27.

The 7th Trumpet is all those things.

If the week of the 7th Trumpet is not split into 2 halves, the 7 vials never even happen.

 

[Timtofly]

How do you think sheol or the realm of dead spirits gets thrown into the lake of fire? You said earlier you understand proper hermeneutics. There are many different rules such as scripture validates scripture. If we take this literally and see nothing out of place as the words do not seem odd:

Do you think a literal realm of the dead will be physically moved and dropped into the lake of fire? Its an easy Yes or No.

What realm:

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

In the 4th Seal "your realms" are riding around on horses as "singular males". Certainly as individuals, John sees them both cast into the LOF. If they are locations, they certainly are not fixed in one spot, but seem to be very mobile.

But then again John sees Paradise descending as the New Jerusalem. This is a very large city coming down from the firmament. God can manipulate creation as He sees fit would be my interpretation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That verse does not say men rise from the sea as opposed to the earth. What verse says verbatim men “rise from the sea” as shown in Daniel 7 and elsewhere men/kings/false prophet “rise from the earth”!

Then show me a verse that says verbatim that men rise from th eearth.

But look at verse 3 of Dan. 7 and compare it to verse 17!

Teh four beasts are four kings and they arise out of teh sea and earth- deal with it and accept it.

Well I am off for about a week. Have to pack my computer for our big move.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 7th Seal is not split into two halves. The 7th Seal is not a week long event. The 7th Seal is not Daniel 9:27.

The 7th Trumpet is all those things.

If the week of the 7th Trumpet is not split into 2 halves, the 7 vials never even happen.

According to you but not according to the Bible.

I said the seventh seal introduces the seven trumpets.

Teh seventh seal like the 7th trumpet and the seventh bowl are all singular space/time events. Teh seventh trumpet does not keep blowing for 3 1/2 years.

I never said the 7th seal is split into halves. You should read what Ii write and not insert your own bias into my words.

Teh sixth seal starts the 70th week of Daniel when the AC signs the covenant with the many of Israel.

Well I am off for about a week. OUr big move begins tomorrow so I have to pack my electronics.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Let's look at this logically.

Let's look at this logically.

If the beast of the sea is the 11th horn as you contend, then the beast of the sea is also the 1st horn, the 2nd horn...all 10 horns. Why is that? Its sounds crazy!

I answered this yesterday and it got wiped out when my google went off, there is no save feature here I guess like on some others, so I just skipped it, that frustrates me and I want to be sharp when speaking of God not frustrated.

As I stated, it is KIND OF like the 11th, its not the 11th because there is NO TEN, the ten simply stands for Completion, thus the 10 meant a certain number when the E.U. came into being, it means 27 until England left (if they really did) now it would mean 3 less nations, I think Scotland wants to remain but who knows. But overall you miss the 11th Horns meaning, it simply means he is born AMONGST the 10 or in the E.U. The Little Horn means a Small Beast Power, unlike the other 6 who were Nation Beasts this Beast who AROSE like the 4 Kings in Dan. 7 to be Beasts, this Beast/King never passes his kingdom on to another, so he is a Little Horn or MAN BEAST. Many Kings on a kingdom makes them a Nation Beast, he is a one man show Beast, he both ARISES an d FALLS as a Bast NONE of the other Beasts did this. Now if you reread Rev. 17 you can get the riddle, there are 7 Mountains (Powers) who ARISE 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece) ONE IS (was at John's time) and that was Rome, and Rome of course fell, then there was ONE YET TO COME (Anti-Christ) and when he comes he continues a short space (3.5 years) as the Beast then Jesus casts him into hell, so he both ARISES and FALLS as a Beast none of the others did this, that the whole riddle of Rev. 17's 7 Mountains, it has ZERO to do with 7 hills and one city having those 7 hills. The fact people continue to say this when it SPECIFICALLY SAYS that these are 7 Kings and 5 have fallen, and ONE IS just kind of makes me SMH.

So, the 11th Horn is not really an 11th, I just say that to show he's NOT OF the 10, he is born into the 10 (E.U.) or amongst them because he comes up (is born) after the 10 (Complete Europe) comes together as a nation. He is one of the 7 Heads in actuality. Notice the Rev. 12 Dragon has CROWNS on the 7 Heads. The Rev. 13 Beast has CROWNS on the 10 Horns, meaning he is OVER THEM, just like Satan the Dragon is OVER HIM, who is one of the 7 Beast Heads. Rev. chapter 17 is the Scarlet Colored Beast, he has NO CROWNS, because his kingdom is the Bottomless Pit, he is Apollyon. He has no earthly kingdom because he is not a human being, and he is not Satan, whose Kingdom is over the earth. Thus he can be OF THE 7..........and be an 8th (Bottomless Pit King). God loves his riddles.

Because all 10 horns are on the beast of the sea, as also the 11th will be. If you're adamant about the beast of the sea being the 11th horn, he is also the first 10 horns as well which doesn't make sense.

How does the Antichrist equal 10 men and not 1? With your logic, it makes no sense. You still refuse to look at scripture objectively and and notice that we are told in Daniel 7, the beast that rises from the sea is a kingdom per Daniel 7:23 and you still refuse to see that the people that rule these kingdoms (4 beast's of the sea) rise from the earth as shown in Daniel 7:17

The 10 are Europe, the Little Horn is not of the 10, he is born in the 10, that's why I use the 11th to show he's different, but he's really just one of the 7 Beast Heads. The Anti-Christ is this born in the E.U. via Greece, he has to be born in Greece, Dan. 8:9 MANDATES THIS !! The reason we are told the 4 Kings ARISE from the earth is because before they were Beasts over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region they arose as Great Kings in their own regions first. So, they arose from the Earth, THEN.........Conquered the Mediterranean Sea Region later.........

1. Babylonian Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (Nebuchadnezzar)
2. Persian Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (Cyrus)
3. Grecian Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (Antiochus Epiphanes)
4. Future Kingdom (Beast of the sea), Ruled by a Beast of the earth (False Prophet)

There is only 1 beast of the sea in Revelation and only 1 beast that rises from the earth to rule that Kingdom.

There are not Four Beasts in Daniel, there are 5. You skipped Rome. The Little Horn is ONE MAN, Dan. 7:23-25 says HE is different from the First (Rome). Telling us there are two Beasts that arise from Europe and both conquer Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region.

Yes, the 10 Horns are Europe, not 10 Beasts, they freely give their kingdoms unto him.

 

[No Pre-TB]

the ten simply stands for Completion,

Except it doesn't because 7 means completion and we are dealing with 10 Kings.

But overall you miss the 11th Horns meaning, it simply means he is born AMONGST the 10 or in the E.U.

Nope, I didn't miss it. It's not what you say it is.

Now if you reread Rev. 17 you can get the riddle, there are 7 Mountains (Powers) who ARISE 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece) ONE IS (was at John's time) and that was Rome, and Rome of course fell, then there was ONE YET TO COME (Anti-Christ) and when he comes he continues a short space (3.5 years) as the Beast then Jesus casts him into hell, so he both ARISES and FALLS as a Beast none of the others did this, that the whole riddle of Rev. 17's 7 Mountains, it has ZERO to do with 7 hills and one city having those 7 hills.

Oh Boy! You read too much internet junk.
Let me get this straight, you said 1 "is" and that was under the Kingdom of Rome...ok and 1 was to come. 7 heads right?

So how is the 7th head the Antichrist when the other 6 heads were kingdoms and not men?
And how is the 7th head the future kingdom if the man of sin is a horn ON the beast with 7 heads and all 7 heads have no crowns? Yet you make the 7th head alive with a crown distorting scripture. Sorry but no, that is wrong. All 7 heads are slain and their crowns removed. The crowns then go to the horns ON the beast. The beast (itself), not the 7 previous heads, then becomes the 8th and is of the 7. The 8th is the final kingdom ruled by a king. Hence when you have a beast of the sea and a beast of the earth and Daniel 7 explains that.

The 10 are Europe

Unproved fantasies of men. We don't know. Don't guess and create conspiracy theories.

There are not Four Beasts in Daniel, there are 5.

No, there are 4.

Daniel 7:3
And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

What is the 4th one?

Daniel 7:19
Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

Is it a Kingdom?

Daniel 7:23
The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Then show me a verse that says verbatim that men rise from th eearth.

But look at verse 3 of Dan. 7 and compare it to verse 17!

Teh four beasts are four kings and they arise out of teh sea and earth- deal with it and accept it.

Well I am off for about a week. Have to pack my computer for our big move.

What he doesn't quite get is the lingo used here, they have to arise out of their own Homelands (Earth) before they can Conquer the Mediterranean Sea Region. The Old English translated Hebrew and Chaldean which Daniel wrote in. Look at it like this.

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts(OR these Four Beasts I am being shown), which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. (Are four kings who arise out of OTHER LANDS first, not the Sea Region which makes them a Beast).

They only become Beast by conquering Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. They are just kings when they arise, when they conquer Israel and the MSR they are then Beasts out of the Sea via God's reference unto the Region they conquered, Israel and the MSR..

 

[No Pre-TB]

Then show me a verse that says verbatim that men rise from th eearth.

Here is my response:

1 Corinthians 50:47-48
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

We are all born of the earth first.

Daniel 7:17
These great beasts, which are four kings, shall arise out of the earth.

Four beasts rise from the earth. These 4 beasts that rise from the earth are called Kings. Each one of these beasts that rise from the earth, Kings, are a component to a beast of the sea because there are 4 of those to match them.

Daniel 7:3
And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Here in verse 3, we have 4 beasts that rise from the sea, different then the 4 that rise from the earth. Now its already told us the 4 from the earth are Kings. What are the ones from the sea?

In verse 2 we begin to see that the first Beast of the sea is Babylonian

Daniel 7:4
The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:

Next we see the 2nd beast of the sea was Media and Persian

Daniel 7:5
And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

So far, the first beast of the sea (Lion) and the 2nd beast of the sea (Bear) are not men, but Kingdoms. So what about the third beast of the sea?

Daniel 7:6
After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

The 3rd beast of the sea, also a Kingdom, was Grecian. And the 4 wings on its back symbolized the 4 Kingdoms it would be parceled out to the North, South, East and West. And notice this 3rd Kingdom had 4 heads. Each head becomes a Kingdom and each Kingdom ruled by a King.

Not one of the beast of the sea was noted as a man, but all were and are Kingdoms. Kingdoms rise from the sea and Men rise from the earth.

Kingdoms are called Beasts of the Sea and Men are called Beast of the Earth. And lastly, the 4 Beasts of the Earth are the Kings OVER the Kingdoms called the beasts of the sea.

Now Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

This is the 4th beast of the sea. Notice this beast no longer has crowns on its head, instead the horns wear the crowns.

Revelation 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Notice how the beast of the sea Kingdom has parts of the 3 previous kingdoms in it. Lion, Bear and leopard. All verbatim from Daniel 7's 3 of the 4 beasts of the sea. A man doesn't come from 3 previous Kingdoms. This 4th Kingdom is a composite of the previous 3. It rises from the sea and is ruled by a beast that rises from the earth as its King.

Revelation 13:11
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;

Here is the beast that rises out of the earth. And viewing Daniel 7:17, it is a King or ruler over the beast of the sea.

Now, let's look at similarities:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

This Man of sin also known as the Antichrist to some, comes in using:
1. After the working of Satan with all power
2. Uses Signs: a sign, miracle, indication, mark, token.
3. Lying Wonders: marvelous falsehood

Now look at Revelation 13, how the False Prophet is characterized:
1. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, (the dragon gave him his power,)
2. And he doeth great wonders,
3. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do

All of it matches perfectly. Then why do churches have confusion? Easy, its 1 statement that does it in Revelation 13.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

People read that and say, the beast of the sea is the Antichrist. They don't realize what changed. I'll highlight it and add brackets to explain below:

And there was given unto him [The beast of the sea] a mouth [It's King as its mouthpiece] speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him [the mouthpiece] to continue forty and two months.
And he [the mouthpiece of this kingdom] opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him [The King of this Kingdom] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The mouthpiece is the False Prophet that is later identified. First introduced is the Kingdom rising from the sea. The sea is turbulent and has commotions in it due to politics and disturbances etc. It brings forth an evil beast from the sea. A leader will guide this Kingdom and be its spokesman; the mouthpiece. He is the one that does all the things Paul's man of sin does and here he is named the False Prophet. Just as Daniel had 4 beasts that rose from the sea and they were all Kingdoms, there were also 4 beasts that rose from the earth as Kings over these Kingdoms.

**I hope you took time to actually read thru it all. I don't like posting much because people normally skip it. I hope your trip/travel was a safe one Ronald. Till I hear from you in a week, stay safe.

 

[Rapture and End Times]

We never expected that this straight-forward article could generate so much controversy. I recommend reading the original post for clarification:

For yet in a very little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay. (Hebrews 10:37)

Biblical genealogy and history suggest Adam was created around 4,000 B.C. The first believers thought the millennium would come after a six thousand year reign of Man. This timing suggests that the End is imminent. Here are 7 factors to consider...​

Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

 

[No Pre-TB]

We never expected that this straight-forward article could generate so much controversy. I recommend reading the original post for clarification:

For yet in a very little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay. (Hebrews 10:37)

Biblical genealogy and history suggest Adam was created around 4,000 B.C. The first believers thought the millennium would come after a six thousand year reign of Man. This timing suggests that the End is imminent. Here are 7 factors to consider...​

Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

You don't need to calculate anything. The resurrection of the dead is in there if you study, you would know its location.