A polite question for pretribbers

[Spiritual Israelite]

It won't make sense to a person who has tunnel vision.

LOL. If you are not able to clearly explain your doctrine, then that says a lot about your doctrine. The truth is not meant to be difficult to explain.

The First Resurrection is ALL OF THE RIGHTEOUS, you are the one hung up on timing, this universe was created for us with its Space Time Continuum, there is no time in Eternity. God lives in all time at once.

Such nonsense. The first resurrection is just that. The first one in order. To say it's anything else is a case of twisting scripture to fit your doctrine. In your doctrine the first resurrection is not really the first resurrection in any sense.

There are 2 Resurrections, the first one happens over 7 years because the Bride must be raise, and then those who had to go through the tribulation have to be raised. You are the one who can not discern the simple stuff.

Show me where this is taught in scripture. I'm sure you will be able to show that to me clearly since it's such "simple stuff".

You get hung up on first and second. Again, doesn't a baseball gane have nine innings?

Yes, a baseball game has nine innings. The first inning comes before the second inning and so on. So, a first resurrection implies a second resurrection. But you combine multiple resurrections into the first resurrection. That makes no sense at all.

Pretribs have no clear scripture they can point to that supports their doctrine. They have to twist scripture all over the place to get it to fit their doctrine.

 

[atpollard]

Thank you, by the way, for giving me any thoughts about it I may not have seen.

I have no clue.
... This is why I have no strong opinions on the details except "Revelations is a VISION", so it needs to be handled with caution when assigning LITERAL meanings to things in a vision. [Will Jesus really have an actual sword sticking out of His mouth ... or was John trying to communicate some other "Spiritual Truth"?]

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And so it begins again. It’s always the same few. Lol.

You did say in your OP ("That doesn’t mean you can’t post another boxing match, just that I won’t read it. Lol). But, I guess you are reading it. LOL.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You did say in your OP ("That doesn’t mean you can’t post another boxing match, just that I won’t read it. Lol). But, I guess you are reading it. LOL.

Yes I did. Carry on.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. I am simply connecting the dots. Why do Christians frequently fail to connect the dots?

Why are you connecting imaginary dots? In 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 Paul indicated that Christ's resurrection itself is the first resurrection and then at His future coming there will be a resurrection of the dead in Christ. Any other resurrections of believers that you come up with are not taught in scripture. Paul knew what he was talking about.

The very fact that Revelation speaks of the resurrection of those who were beheaded for refusing to take the Mark of the Beast, and this is connected to the Millennium should be sufficient.

That they are specifically mentioned there does not mean that is a different resurrection than the one referenced in passages like 1 Thess 4:14-17, 1 Cor 15:22-23 and 1 Cor 15:50-54. You have a mass resurrection of believers taking place even before the first resurrection. In what sense is the first resurrection actually the first in your view?

Christ comes from Heaven with ALL His saints and angels, destroys the Beast and the False Prophet (along with all His enemies) and then sets up His Millennial Kingdom (Rev 19 and 20). That is when these Tribulation saints are resurrected to live and reign with Him for 1,000 years. At the same time they are also connected with "the First Resurrection", since they are the last phase of that "First Resurrection".

Last phase of the first resurrection? It is not taught anywhere in scripture that there are phases to the first resurrection. Do you see that in 1 Cor 15:22-23 where Paul gives the order of resurrections? No, you don't. So, why are you making things up and contradicting what Paul taught?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes I did. Carry on.

I will.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I will.

We know you will.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sorry, I have to butt in. The 'implied' second resurrection is ANOTHER ONE UNTO LIFE in Christ Jesus.

The "first resurrection" is for Christ's faithful elect Church from both OT and NT, and particularly those not deceived at the end and did not fall away to the coming pseudo-Christ Jesus warned about. In John 5:28-29 Lord Jesus showed ALL... in the graves will resurrect on the day of His future coming. Some will go into the "resurrection of life" (the 1st resurrection), and the rest will go into the "resurrection of damnation". Then the same kind of division will happen with those that are still alive when He comes and are 'changed' to the resurrection body type.

Then after... the thousand years, the books are opened, including the Book of Life again (see Revelation 20:12).

WHY... is that Book of Life opened again and names looked for in it after... that thousand years? I mean, are only those of the "first resurrection" the ONLY ONES saved in Christ Jesus? The answer to that is NO.

Everyone will be in a resurrection type body (a "spiritual body" Paul taught) when Jesus returns, and the dead are raised, and those alive are 'changed'. I mean, what does one think Paul meant one will be 'changed' to on that "last trump"? Use common sense, think for yourself. It's not that difficult.

The difference between the 1st resurrection and the unsaved during the thousand years will be that the unsaved will still have souls that are in a liable to die condition, being without Jesus Christ.

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be loosed one final time to tempt those unsaved nations. And THEN... after that, the GWT Judgment, with the books opened to see if any names (of those nations) are found. And IF... there are, just what KIND of condition do they go to?

Thus the 2nd implied resurrection only happens AFTER the thousand years, and is ANOTHER RESURRECTION LIKE THE 1ST ONE, UNTO CHRIST JESUS!

This is complete nonsense. The only thing you get right is that all of the dead will be raised on the day of Jesus's future coming.

What you get very wrong is that you have the unsaved being resurrected with mortal bodies. Scripture never teaches that. Jesus said in John 5:28-29 that the unsaved will "rise to be condemned". You have them still living on the earth for 1,000+ years after that! That is ridiculous. What would be the point of that? No, they will "rise to be condemned" as Jesus said. They will immediately stand before the throne to give an account of themselves after being resurrected and then they will be cast into the lake of fire. This scenario is portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We know you will.

I know that you all know I will.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol. You’re a spitfire.

 

[The Light]

LOL. You are the one in way over your head. The truth is not nearly as convoluted as you make it out to be.

You don't know what truth is. You have your truth. That's the truth of a foolish virgin.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You don't know what truth is. You have your truth. That's the truth of a foolish virgin.

Blah blah blah. Let me know when you are able to explain your view in a way that makes sense, if that ever happens.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lol. You’re a spitfire.

I had to look up what that word means. No, I'm really not. But, whatever.

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes they do and I have already proven it. "first resurrection" and "rise first" is speaking of the same exact event of the dead in Christ coming back to physical life.

God`s word says differently.

First resurrection - is to LIFE.
Second resurrection - is to condemnation. (John 5: 29)

The law of first mention applies. So, whenever someone is resurrected it can be ONLY to life or to condemnation. It means the TYPE of resurrection not an order. Always good to see how God explains what He means.

 

[Jay Ross]

God`s word says differently.

First resurrection - is to LIFE.
Second resurrection - is to condemnation. (John 5: 29)

The law of first mention applies. So, whenever someone is resurrected it can be ONLY to life or to condemnation. It means the TYPE of resurrection not an order. Always good to see how God explains what He means.

Everybody, whether saint or sinner, is resurrected to face the final judgement.

The outcome of the judgement happens after the resurrection happen. The resurrected bodies are either judged to be righteous or unrighteous. The judged righteous, enter into their inheritance. The unrighteous enter into the lake of fire.

As Daniel stated: - Dan 12:2: -
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

NKJV​

Those who are asleep shall awake first with renewed bodies, then the decision as to their fate is decided.
Those who are alive are also given renewed bodies as well before the decision as to their fate is decided.

Shalom

 

[Marilyn C]

Everybody, whether saint or sinner, is resurrected to face the final judgement.

The outcome of the judgement happens after the resurrection happen. The resurrected bodies are either judged to be righteous or unrighteous. The judged righteous, enter into their inheritance. The unrighteous enter into the lake of fire.

As Daniel stated: - Dan 12:2: -
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

NKJV​

Those who are asleep shall awake first with renewed bodies, then the decision as to their fate is decided.
Those who are alive are also given renewed bodies as well before the decision as to their fate is decided.

Shalom

Those in the Body of Christ DO NOT face judgment. That is what the Lord did for us. That is our salvation. saved from judgment!!!!!!

Daniel is talking about Israel.

`At that time Michael shall stand up, the great Prince who stands watch over the SONS OF YOUR PEOPLE:...` (Dan. 12 1)

Always good to read the CONTEXT.

 

[The Light]

I had to look up what that word means. No, I'm really not. But, whatever.

Wow Spitfire huh? I don't think she realizes that the Word of God along with factual truth, has ripped the heart and soul out of your religion. Who wouldn't be upset to learn what they believe has been served up on a plate of misinformation and falsified facts. Maybe firebrand?

 

[The Light]

As Daniel stated: - Dan 12:2: -
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

NKJV​

Those who are asleep shall awake first with renewed bodies, then the decision as to their fate is decided.
Those who are alive are also given renewed bodies as well before the decision as to their fate is decided.

The question is, Why aren't all of them that sleep in the ground raised then. Why MANY of them?

 

[ewq1938]

God`s word says differently.

No, it doesn't.

 

[ewq1938]

Those in the Body of Christ DO NOT face judgment.

1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?