The Doctrine of Millennialism is destroy by Personal Symbolizing of Scripture.

[marks]

That's part of it, but you also are not specific in what you're saying a lot of the time. So, I'd be surprised if anyone can understand some of the things you say.


It's completely up to you what you want to respond to or not. It's very clear we will never come anywhere close to agreeing on these things. I don't think that makes them not worth discussing. But, I don't personally have anything more to add right now to what I've already said, so I'm fine to just agree to disagree at this point.

We can always come back to it should we wish.

Not to mention, regardless of other considerations, I don't just ignore and forget things you've say, I continue to consider these things.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

8 were saved, that is the point I'm making here. They were saved by God from the flood.

Much love!

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[robert derrick]

Please give me an example or two of someone doing this. I don't believe anyone here has done that, so you should back this up with an example or two or else I will just assume that you're making this up.

I don't bother supplying examples of what others do.

If you want to think I'm making something up, go ahead.

 

[robert derrick]

Do you take the following literally? Please tell me how you interpret this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Already have. Go back and review for yourself, if you want to take my responses seriously.

 

[robert derrick]

So much for you taking scripture literally.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Already responded to this.

 

[robert derrick]

You don't have to see the sword as being literal in order to also see the destruction as being literal. You are so childish. The sword coming out of His mouth is clearly not literal. It's ludicrous for anyone to think so. But, the destruction is real. He will destroy His enemies when He returns because other scriptures teach that as well. It just so happens that it's described in a symbolic way in Revelation 19 as opposed to a passage like 2 Peter 3:10-12. So what? Who is saying that the whole thing is symbolic, anyway? Seems like you're making a straw man argument here.

His enemies at Armageddon will be slaughtered without mercy.

The goats will be executed, and the natural sheep will remain alive at the beginning of His kingdom rule on earth.

I've said this several times now to you, and you don't address it, much less disprove it, but continue repeated your own mantra.

We are drawing to a close, unless you come up with something new to look at.

 

[robert derrick]

You are talking about His glorified eternal perfect kingdom that arrives on the new earth when He comes. It is free of all the bondage of corruption.

In the end after the final judgment yes, when New Jerusalem descends. Not before.

 

[robert derrick]

Not to! You're adding on to Scripture again. You have to. Armageddon is not even mentioned in Revelation 19. You force it in there. The flesh of men both bond and free relates to all those who are against Christ - all the wicked, who spiritually take the beast's mark. One is either in God's army at the end or the devil's army. That is the pattern of Scripture. You cannot take Scripture after Scripture literal as it exposes your teaching. What is more, you have nothing to support your faulty opinion of, and fixation with, Revelation 20.

Rev 16, 17, and 19 give the full revelation of the armies gathered at Armageddon on earth, to make war with the Lamb and His armies, and the Lord of Lords will overcome them without mercy.

And then the fowls of the whole earth are called to eat their flesh.

They are not consumed by fire from God out of heaven.

That will be Gog and Magog after Christ's kingdom reign on earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't bother supplying examples of what others do.

So, you don't see any need to back up things that you say. I see.

If you want to think I'm making something up, go ahead.

Okay, I will. And I do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Already have. Go back and review for yourself, if you want to take my responses seriously.

Do you know how many posts are in this thread? I'm not going to go back and look for it. I tried to search for it and don't see anything. Do you know which post number it was?

 

[robert derrick]

Premils avoid the most important resurrection to let their opinion fit. There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

There are two Greek words used in the NT that are used to describe the resurrection of Christ, and that are significantly, in turn, purposely equated to mankind; they are egeiro (Strong’s 1453) and anastasis (Strong’s 386).

Jesus said in Matthew 12:41-42, “The men of Nineveh shall rise [Gr. anistemi] in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”

The righteous Old Testament Gentile saint – the queen of the south – is raised at the same time as the wicked Pharisees of Christ’s day to stand before the same judgment seat of Christ.

This is further impressed in the parallel portion in Luke 11:31, only with an additional example, saying, “The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro] in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh shall rise up [Gr. anistemi] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.”

Here, the two main words used throughout the New Testament for resurrection are applied to the general resurrection that occurs on Judgment Day when the Old Testament time saints and wicked join the New Testament saints and wicked at the judgment. Remember the queen of the south and Nineveh are presented as Old Testament Gentile saints that will “rise up in the judgment with” the wicked unbelieving Jews of Christ’s day. There is no prolonged parenthesis period separating the resurrection of the wicked dead and the resurrection of the righteous dead. They both “rise up” at the same time. The Old Testament Gentile city of Nineveh is shown to “rise up in the judgment with” (or meta) the religious Jewish world of Christ’s day and “condemn it.” The Greek word meta (3326) is described in Strong’s concordance as “a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; ‘amid’.”

Amillennialists therefore maintain that there is one general resurrection, of the just and unjust, at the second advent of Christ. The righteous then inherit the earth in an eternal state. Premils understanding of Revelation 20 conflict with numerous Scripture.

Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Please notice “the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” We are not just looking at the righteous, we are looking at both the righteous and the wicked. The passage goes on to confirm: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” All that are in the graves will come forth when He comes. The righteous will be ushered into His glorious kingdom, the wicked shall be damned for all eternity in the lake of fire.

The righteous and wicked dead all rise in response to the same sovereign voice - Christ's. Christ’s description of the resurrection depicts a unitary event, albeit in two parts. Part 1 is the elect; Part 2 is the wicked. Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” Evidently there is only one resurrection albeit involving two separated aspects: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

There is no 1,000 years’ separation mentioned or hinted at in here.

There is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation. Acts 24:15 says, “there shall be a resurrection of the dead (singular), both of the just and unjust.”

This verse speaks of a singular “resurrection of the dead” not multiple resurrections (plural) of the dead as the Premillennialist would try and intimate. The fact that Paul differentiates between the wicked and the righteous in no way proves that these are two separate resurrections coming at the end of two separate ages split by 1,000 years+ of history (filled with all the produce of the curse – sin, death and corruption). No, it simply demonstrates that there are two types of resurrection in the one final resurrection of the dead at the end. In fact, for Premils to insist on their concept is to force something into the passage that doesn’t truly exist. Scripture constantly distinguishes between the wicked and the righteous even though they are found participating in the same event at the same time. Why would anyone think it strange that the Holy Spirit would identify the two different parties that take part in the general “resurrection of the dead”? After all, it is a normal biblical procedure to distinguish between these two conflicting camps. Although to suggest that the identifying of these two distinct parties indicates two separate events at two separate times is illogical.

Once again, there is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation.

Back to false reports and mantra with much gilded scholarship.

Don't reply to me personally, when it has nothing to do with me.

You can do your stuff independently all you like.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

His enemies at Armageddon will be slaughtered without mercy.

The goats will be executed, and the natural sheep will remain alive at the beginning of His kingdom rule on earth.

You have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God which is a blatant contradiction of 1 Corinthians 15:50 which says that mortal flesh and blood will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Your unwillingness to address this and alter your understanding accordingly says it all about you.

I've said this several times now to you, and you don't address it, much less disprove it, but continue repeated your own mantra.

We are drawing to a close, unless you come up with something new to look at.

You are not one to talk about not addressing things. I don't have anything else to add to what I've already said. I find your argument to be extremely weak. That's the last thing I have to say about this discussion.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Back to false reports and mantra with much gilded scholarship.

Don't reply to me personally, when it has nothing to do with me.

You can do your stuff independently all you like.

His post was excellent. It's not surprising that you would choose not to address anything he said since he absolutely destroyed your doctrine using scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 16, 17, and 19 give the full revelation of the armies gathered at Armageddon on earth, to make war with the Lamb and His armies, and the Lord of Lords will overcome them without mercy.

And then the fowls of the whole earth are called to eat their flesh.

They are not consumed by fire from God out of heaven.

That will be Gog and Magog after Christ's kingdom reign on earth.

So, they will eat the flesh of those who were slain with a literal sword coming out of Christ's mouth, right?

 

[WPM]

In the end after the final judgment yes, when New Jerusalem descends. Not before.

That is at the second coming (not some imaginary non-corroborated Premil future millennium). That is the end!

 

[WPM]

Back to false reports and mantra with much gilded scholarship.

Don't reply to me personally, when it has nothing to do with me.

You can do your stuff independently all you like.

Your pattern is to avoid the evidence. All you have is your ad hominem and your avoidance. That is what we have to deal with on these forums. Your avoidance supports the Amil thesis.

 

[WPM]

Rev 16, 17, and 19 give the full revelation of the armies gathered at Armageddon on earth, to make war with the Lamb and His armies, and the Lord of Lords will overcome them without mercy.

And then the fowls of the whole earth are called to eat their flesh.

They are not consumed by fire from God out of heaven.

That will be Gog and Magog after Christ's kingdom reign on earth.

Yes. It is total destruction. No one survives. I have shown you that and you have avoided that. You have to. There are no survivors to enter your imaginary future millennium.

 

[robert derrick]

Do you know how many posts are in this thread? I'm not going to go back and look for it. I tried to search for it and don't see anything. Do you know which post number it was?

No, which is why I'm not going to do your work for you.

I'll tell you what. Let's try to do this in a more specifically defined way.

You state one challenge. I will respond to your specifics to agree or disagree. You then respond to my response specifically. Once we see we don't see the same Scripture the same way, and have a different sense of it, then we can go on to a new challenge.

Here is your challenge:



"Do you take the following literally? Please tell me how you interpret this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."

Yes it is literal. This day of the Lord is the third one prophesied in Scripture: the first was Jesus Christ coming in the flesh and resurrected from the dead, which Peter confirmed from Joel. (acts 2:17-21)

The second is His second coming to earth, which Paul confirmed for receiving His people to Himself by resurrection of their bodies into the air, and judging all the earth with His rule. (2 Thess 2:1-3)

The third day of the Lord will be at the end of His reign on earth and fire from God upon all the earth destroying all of wicked Gog and Magog. This is preached by Peter and confirmed in Rev 20:7-9.

To say there is only one day of the Lord, is to reject Peter confirming it from Joel at His first coming to earth, and His second coming in the air, also called the day of Christ.

Therefore, the last day of the Lord is neither the first nor the second.

 

[Timtofly]

Where do you get this from? The sheep inherit "eternal life" in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34,46). You believe they will inherit a temporary kingdom, not an eternal one.

You seem to be the only one that insists 1,000 years is more temporary than 6,000. If the kingdom was from the foundation of the world, and the world already had a finite life span, insisting eternal was already ambushed from the very beginning. So any time is still part of eternity, but part of each and every creation within eternity. No creation is eternity itself. You have no proof any creation is forever, nor that the next creation is infinite. The kingdom will be eternal but a kingdom cannot exist without a finite creation.

 

[robert derrick]

You have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God

You either have no honesty in reading others' teachings, or your symbolic manner of reading Scripture, blinds you to making difference between the spiritual kingdom of God, and the kingdom of Christ the King on earth.