Will Judas Iscariot be Saved?

[BeyondET]

Mar 14:44
And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.

I don't know if at the time Judas understood fully that Jesus was to be put to death.
take him, and lead him away safely.
What an odd thing to say if you are seeking his death.

Luk 22:48
But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

2Co 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Mat 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Mat 27:4
Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Mat 27:5
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Psa 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Judas was given a mission to fulfill prophecy.
If Satan filled Judas with his own spirit, where was Judas' spirit?
Judas didn't do this thing from his own heart. This was put in him to do.
Only after the betrayal was complete did Judas realize he had condemned innocent blood.
It was Satan who betrayed Jesus. Judas was just the vessel used to fulfill it.

And then he went and hanged himself.
Did Judas know? Did Judas have faith?
He knew he was condemned under the law.

Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

of redemption:
Lev 25:47
And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:
Lev 25:48
After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him:

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Do you believe God won't forgive Judas for being used as a vessel to fulfill prophecy???

Luk 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Mat 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself,

I think this is one of those tests in the bible where you have to determine the log in your own eye before removing the splinter from your brothers eye.
Judge not lest ye be judged.

None of the disciples were perfect. Each one was called for God's purpose.

Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Is God's mercy to short to reach Judas?

Judas condemned himself, I believe the Lord redeemed him with his own blood.

Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Lot of people today committing suicide out of great despair. Do you believe there is no hope for them?
I don't. I trust God's mercy.

Hugs

Is there hope for all people who self murder, that's a head scratcher.

 

[NayborBear]

Will Judas Iscariot be saved? Yes, eventually this Judas will believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and be saved permanently. And yes, I am aware that this Judas committed suicide.

I myself believe that Judas was murdered. If not by the Pharasetic priests? Then by one or ones' hired by them to keep him silent. As he was not only a Disciple of Christ, he also had "connections" within the religious community of the jewry. With which had to be silenced!

I believe Judas repented from the betrayal of Christ, when he threw those 30 pieces of silver to the floor of the Synagouge.

 

[Harold]

I believe Judas repented from the betrayal of Christ, when he threw those 30 pieces of silver to the floor of the Synagouge.

Interesting. For me, repentance is defined as a recognition of sins.

Is there hope for all people who self murder, that's a head scratcher.

For the ECT believers, Judas would be saved if he believed in Christ before he committed suicide.
For the UR believers, Judas would be saved even after suicide, because in Sheol, the realm of the dead, He would have a chance to believe in Christ. (my personal camp)
Psalm 16:10 You will not leave my soul in Sheol.

Also, interesting discussion everyone on the thread is having. My blessings to you all It can be hard to find a place to "pop in" so to speak.

 

[Lambano]

I myself believe that Judas was murdered. If not by the Pharasetic priests?

My theory is that St. Simon the Zealot slit his throat in some Jerusalem back alley. The Zealots knew how to handle traitors.

 

[Johann]

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none."

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or this way.

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

Jesus Himself described those who had experienced incredible spiritual power but failed to experience Jesus Himself…

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does (present tense - HABITUALLY, NOT PERFECTION BUT AT LEAST "DIRECTION" - AKA "HEAVENWARD" AND NOT THE CONVERSE) the will of My Father who is in heaven.

22 "Many (NOTE THIS SAD WORD "MANY") will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' (NOTE: HE DOES NOT DISPUTE THAT THEY DID THESE THINGS - WE KNOW JUDAS CARRIED OUT SUPERNATURAL ACTS BUT HE WAS NOT SAVED. CLEARLY SUPERNATURAL ACTS DO NOT SAVE. ONLY GENUINE FAITH IN JESUS SAVES!)

23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE (present tense = as their habitual practice, they have never manifested any evidence or fruit of a changed behavior in keeping with true repentance and faith.) LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:21; 7:22; 7:23)
Act 1:16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
Act 1:18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
Act 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”

Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and (Psa_109:8) His bishopric [ episkopeen (G1984) 'office' or 'charge'] let another take , [ labetoo (G2983), not laboi (G2983), of the Received Text]. The language of two eminently Messianic Psalms is here combined, with a slight verbal variation in the former member of it, but with none in the latter. In both quotations, however, the plural is converted into the singular, for the purpose of singling out Judas from among all the predicted enemies of Messiah. For as the apostle discerned in those psalms a greater than David, so he saw a worse than Ahitophel and his fellow-conspirators against their rightful king.
JFB

J.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Actually, I think you might need to reconsider. There were no JEWS in the Pentetuch. There was no 'tribe of Judah' from which the term Jew came from until after Jacob..

I think you are being a little pedantic with the semantics there ....but you are quite correct....there were Israelites, all descendants of Jacob, (later divided into the 10 tribe kingdom and the 2 tribe kingdom) in later times called Jews. Judaism was the religion Jesus was born into.
So the one thing I don't think I got wrong was the Hebrew Pentateuch, written by Moses.....which were given to all Israel after their liberation from Egypt.....the tribe of Judah included. So Israel as a collective all received the writings of Moses.

You are reasoning well, but I would ask to consider adding Ultimate Reconciliation to the true doctrine which was also lost in that very "apostasy" which you just mentioned.

What "ultimate reconciliation, to what true doctrine" is this? I am again in a blur of interpretation.

I agree we are not a dichotomy of a spirit and body which equals a "living soul". Scripture is plain that we are triune just like the Godhead was and just like Jesus was. We are "spirit, soul, body".1Thes 5:23 But, only the "sinful flesh" body of Jesus is what "the Word" of God became.

I have brought to the attention of many who have made this claim concerning this verse, that it is not speaking about a triune form in individual humans. If you read that verse in context, Paul is addressing his fellow brothers collectively....
Here is the verse in context....
"Now we request you, brothers, to show respect for those who are working hard among you and presiding over you in the Lord and admonishing you; 13 and to give them extraordinary consideration in love because of their work. Be peaceable with one another. 14 On the other hand, we urge you, brothers, to warn the disorderly, speak consolingly to those who are depressed, support the weak, be patient toward all. 15 See that no one repays injury for injury to anyone, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others.
16 Always be rejoicing. 17 Pray constantly. 18 Give thanks for everything. This is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. 19 Do not put out the fire of the spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. 22 Abstain from every form of wickedness.
23 May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. And may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers, sound in every respect, be preserved blameless at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who is calling you is faithful, and he will surely do so."

The spirit is the animating force of this body....the soul is the life of them as a collective....and the body is their collective anointing as God's "elect" or "chosen ones".

Joh 1:14 And the Word became FLESH and dwelt among us.

Read in Greek this verse does not say what is translated into English. "Ho logos" became flesh but "ho logos" is not "ho theos".

ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of SINFUL FLESH, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
But Jesus also had a spirit and soul. And at Gethsemene His "spirit was willing" to die but His "flesh was weak" and His "soul was sorrowful unto death.

At Gethsemane it was his apostles who demonstrated that "the spirit was willing but the flesh was weak" in that they succumbed to sleep at the time when Jesus was about to be betrayed. He had asked them to stay awake and pray.

IMO Christian's souls and bodies have been dying for 2,000 years. Why? Because they have been sinning for 2,000 years.

Yep, but a human soul is the only thing that lives. There is nothing that is alive at death. Death is the very opposite of life.....it is not a continuation of it in some other place. It was the devil who suggested that lie in Eden when he said to Eve...."you surely will not die"....
It was Jehovah who said they would....so who lied? Jesus named the culprit.....he said to the Pharisees....

"You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44)

 

[Aunty Jane]

What 'I see' is that the spirit gives animating life force to the body and the soul (mind, will, emotions) give 'motivating life' force to the body (I will, I won't, I can, I can't). And, in agreement with you above all the people who were resurreceted by Jesus during his life and at his crucifixion....all still died again. Would you agree?

Yes, and it is interesting that all who died before Jesus did not receive "the heavenly calling". (John 3:13; Hebrews 3:1) That anointing was bestowed at Pentecost with the outpouring of the holy spirit. Jesus' death opened the way to heaven earning him the title "firstborn from the dead". (Col 1:15-17)
He was certainly not the first to be resurrected, but in each case, he changed the destiny of the one he raised. Lazarus would join his sisters in a heavenly assignment. Before Jesus had fulfilled his role as Messiah, Lazarus had only an earthly hope, but since he was raised by Jesus and died after Jesus, his place in heaven is assured.

I have a different POV. Jesus was talking about Lazarus' soul sleeping while his body was dead because his spirit left his body .

Lazarus "slept", in a completely unconscious state....in keeping with the statements made by Solomon in Eccl 9:5,6,10.....
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun . . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going."

LUK 8:53 And they laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But taking her by the hand he called, saying, "Child, arise." 55 And her spirit returned, and she got up at once;

JAM 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead,
Animating life comes from the spirit!!!

The spirit is indeed the animating force, but it is not separate from the body.
The Greek pneuʹma (spirit) comes from pneʹo, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ruʹach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ruʹach and pneuʹma, then, basically mean “breath”.
What made Adam a "soul"? It was the "breath (spirit) of life". Adam's life started when he took his first breath.
"Spirit" in the scriptures, is that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion. God breathed life into Adam.

The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s holy spirit."

Lazarus' body was awaiting the resurrection of all from the grave to appear before the judgment seat of Christ for the things DONE IN THE SINFUL FLESH while he was living. All the soul does is measure the degree of maturity one attains spiritually after being born again in their spirit.

Since the highest penalty one could pay under God' law (for any crime) was death, those who have died have "paid sin's wages". Consequently, Romans 6:7 says..."For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin." So at the resurrection, the dead are raised with a clean slate....they will be judged on how they live after their resurrection, that will determine whether they get to keep living...or not during the thousand year reign of Christ and his elect.

OK, I just went down as big a rabbit hole as I am going to address for now. I'm assuming you should have lots to think about, given the paradigm you've shared so far, concerning 'your opinion.

I do think a lot, which is why I find Bible study so satisfying.....we have so many resources available to us in these last days, that there is really no reason or excuse for any sincere Christian to reject the truth, or to believe the doctrines of a counterfeit faith that has existed for centuries.....but first you have to understand the treasure is buried.....and only those who put in the effort to dig deeper, are going to find the gems.

 

[n2thelight]

Is Judas saved? Only God can truly look at the conditions of the heart to know if someone believed in Jesus Christ with faith alone and gained permanent salvation. As it is the Holy Spirit, who is God, that is inside a person dwelling that makes a person clean of all sins.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,



Let’s get more specific, and know that I am referring to Judas Iscariot here

Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.



However, if we assume that this Judas, of Iscariot, is not saved, then arises another question.



Will Judas Iscariot be saved? Yes, eventually this Judas will believe in Jesus Christ with faith alone and be saved permanently. And yes, I am aware that this Judas committed suicide.

Matthew 27:1 5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.



And yes I am aware that Judas Iscariot was the one who betrayed Jesus Christ.

Luke 22:47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”



And you’re probably wondering how a traitor like Judas can receive salvation? When his act of betrayal became so popular that it has a whole Wikipedia page on it?



Kiss of Judas - Wikipedia

Justus Knecht comments on Judas' kiss writing,

He did not refuse his treacherous kiss: He suffered His sacred Face to be touched by the lips of this vile traitor, and He even called him: “Friend!” “I have always treated you as My friend”, He meant to imply, “why therefore do you come now at the head of My enemies, and betray Me to them by a kiss!” This loving treatment on the part of our Lord was to the ungrateful traitor a last hour of grace. Jesus gave him to understand that He still loved him in spite of his vile crime, and was ready to forgive him.



Despite this treacherous kiss, Jesus was ready to forgive Judas! And Jesus Christ is still ready, waiting with open arms, ready to forgive Judas Iscariot. All people will become righteous friends of the Lord, like how Abraham believed in the Lord and was seen as a friend of righteousness.

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”



When his act of betrayal became so noteworthy that it appears on the dictionary? Literally as something specifically defined as “deceitful and treacherous”.

Judas kiss



Judas kiss

Also found in: Idioms, Wikipedia.

a deceitful and treacherous kiss.

an act appearing to be an act of friendship, which is in fact harmful to the recipient.



The term “Judas Kiss” has even gone beyond the Biblical Christianity and has been used to describe “treacherous natures” in general by the general masses, such as with the fictional (aka fake, false) human made Japanese danmaku 弾幕 だんまく series “Touhou” 東方 Though I do enjoy this series, like the music.

Touhou PC-98 東方 5 Kaikidan ~ Mystic Square怪綺談 とうほうかいきだんMai's マイTheme: Treacherous Maiden ~ Judas Kiss. 裏切りの少女Released 1998-12-30 (Comiket 55)

The creator of Touhou, Jun’ya “ZUN” Ōta 太田 順也, and of this music track describes it 東方幻想的音楽 as

This is "Treacherous Maiden ~ Judas Kiss" from Mystic Square. … I was thinking of arranging in Biblical style as the title implies(kiss of Judas), but what's Biblical style in the first place? I seem to have gained a bit of its conscious later on (^ ^;.

Mystic Square/Music



So even those outside of Christianity can recognize that Judas is treacherous. Then, how can this person be saved, who committed such a deceitful, treacherous betrayal against our Lord and Saviour, how can he possibly be saved? Well, the same way that all of us are saved…

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.



By believing in Jesus Christ with faith alone. His sacrifice, the blood on the cross, is sufficient to wash away all sins. Even if Judas is in Sheol, the realm of the dead, after his suicide, he can still believe in Christ Jesus and have the Holy Spirit enter his body, so he can be made clean to go to Heaven. This will happen, as the Bible tells us that Christ shall be all in all! Yes, even in the most treacherous of traitors!

1 Corinthians 15:22-28 All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all His enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all.



All traitors in the whole world will become believers in Christ and be washed of all their sins! This includes Judas Iscariot! Everyone, ever, that has existed, exists, will exist, thus will guaranteed become believers in Jesus and all of them will have permanent life! Each and every one of those who have committed any act of betrayal will be washed of their sin by the holy blood of Christ and therefore allowed to enter the gates of Heaven into the holy city of New Jerusalem.

Psalm 30:5 For his anger is but for a moment, and his favor is for a lifetime. Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning.

Judas Iscariot may have been weeping, battered by grief for a moment. This weeping may have led him to suicide. But eventually, he will be saved. He will have faith in Christ Jesus as the saviour for his sins.

Luke 15:4: "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?"

Judas Iscariot is like that lost sheep. Even if 99% of people on Earth are saved, if Judas Iscariot, if even the most treacherous traitors are not saved, Jesus Christ will not stop saving people until 100% of 100% of people on Earth are saved. All = all. 100% = 100%. We are all sheep to the Lord, and He is our Holy Shepard. We will all have faith in Him, the Lord of Hosts, and be washed from death, and be made clean with permanent life.

Revelation 5:13: "And I [John] heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, `To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!"'

He repented

 

[n2thelight]

There are several scriptures that leave us in little doubt as to the fate of Christ's betrayer.....he committed the unforgivable sin.
He was a partaker of the gifts of God's spirit as all of the apostles were, but he deliberately betrayed his master for money. Jesus knew he had been stealing from the treasury box. (John 12:5-6)

Matthew 27:3 "Then Judas, which had betrayed Him, when he saw that He was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,"

Judas is the one that betrayed Jesus for the thirty pieces of silver. Judas saw what these religious leaders had done in condemning Jesus by trial, and bringing Him to Pilate to be crucified, and Judas was sorry for what he had done. Now don't read over this. JUDAS REPENTED HIMSELF. This was not the unforgivable sin that Judas committed, and upon repentance there is forgiveness.

 

[NayborBear]

My theory is that St. Simon the Zealot slit his throat in some Jerusalem back alley. The Zealots knew how to handle traitors.

Well?.....Yeah? But, Judas recognizing his being used to bring about the fulfillment of prophecy would be more extremely detrimental to the religious organization/s as they had become which brought about God's only begotten to be sacrificed?

But yeah? I could see Peter doin' it as well I suppose.

Interesting sidebar/s nonetheless.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matthew 27:3 "Then Judas, which had betrayed Him, when he saw that He was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,"

Judas is the one that betrayed Jesus for the thirty pieces of silver. Judas saw what these religious leaders had done in condemning Jesus by trial, and bringing Him to Pilate to be crucified, and Judas was sorry for what he had done. Now don't read over this. JUDAS REPENTED HIMSELF. This was not the unforgivable sin that Judas committed, and upon repentance there is forgiveness.

The word used in the scriptures is “metamelomai” and it means to “regret” an action that you have done.
Regret can turn to repentance, but in Judas’ case his regret did not turn to repentance, but to suicide when he realised the gravity of what he had done.

To use an illustration.....under God’s law, if a person committed murder, mitigating circumstances were taken into consideration. For example, if the action was pre-meditated, the murderer was to be put to death immediately because he harboured malice and forethought to commit the crime....no mercy was to be shown. But if it was a spur of the moment act of anger, without intent to murder, the manslayer could be shown mercy, but still held accountable for his actions. He would be sentenced to life in captivity in one of the six “cities of refuge” located in Israel. He was to stay in the city until the death of the High Priest, after which he could return to his home. The actual period of incarceration was not pre-determined. If he ventured outside of that city, the next of kin of the deceased had a right to take his life to avenge their death.

Because Judas’ crime was pre-meditated, and Jesus said that Judas was “destroyed”...it means that there was no basis upon which to forgive him. Jesus said that those in “gehenna” are “destroyed”...it is an everlasting punishment. (Matt 10:28) Judas had no legitimate excuse for his actions which led to the murder of an innocent man under Jewish law....let alone the murder of God’s own son. He would have to pay with his own life....and he did away with himself.

If he had been forgiven, the same Holy Spirit from the Father, that had allowed him a share in the miracles of his Master, would have given him the conviction of his forgiveness. His suicide proves that was not the case.

 

[Hillsage]

I think you are being a little pedantic with the semantics there ....but you are quite correct....there were Israelites, all descendants of Jacob, (later divided into the 10 tribe kingdom and the 2 tribe kingdom) in later times called Jews. Judaism was the religion Jesus was born into.
So the one thing I don't think I got wrong was the Hebrew Pentateuch, written by Moses.....which were given to all Israel after their liberation from Egypt.....the tribe of Judah included. So Israel as a collective all received the writings of Moses.

A 'bit' pedantic is probably true. But look at how the church has 'slowly' morphed over the last 2,000 years. As a pilot I learned that a small course deviation ends bad.

What "ultimate reconciliation, to what true doctrine" is this? I am again in a blur of interpretation.

Ultimate Reconciliation is the belief that God has no problem with the 'eternal' consequence of sin because that price was paid for on the cross. God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself. But that is only half of the message. Ultimate Reconciliation is 'the world' accepting the fact that God has paid the price through Jesus. We don't accept Jesus to BE FORGIVEN....We accept Him and what He did to FEEL the forgiveness that God atoned and paid for through Jesus.

2CO 5:17 Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19* that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

I have brought to the attention of many who have made this claim concerning this verse, that it is not speaking about a triune form in individual humans. If you read that verse in context, Paul is addressing his fellow brothers collectively....
Here is the verse in context....
"Now we request you, brothers, to show respect for those who are working hard among you and presiding over you in the Lord and admonishing you; 13 and to give them extraordinary consideration in love because of their work. Be peaceable with one another. 14 On the other hand, we urge you, brothers, to warn the disorderly, speak consolingly to those who are depressed, support the weak, be patient toward all. 15 See that no one repays injury for injury to anyone, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others.
16 Always be rejoicing. 17 Pray constantly. 18 Give thanks for everything. This is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. 19 Do not put out the fire of the spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. 22 Abstain from every form of wickedness.
23 May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. And may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers, sound in every respect, be preserved blameless at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who is calling you is faithful, and he will surely do so."

The spirit is the animating force of this body....the soul is the life of them as a collective....and the body is their collective anointing as God's "elect" or "chosen ones".

HEB 4:12 For the word/logos of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, (body)…

LUK 1:46-47 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord (praise), 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour (worship).

I'd still say; God is triune we as individuals are triune and as you have shared abovej, an exegesis I must admit I have not seen before. But, as you can see from my TWO posted verses in Heb. and Luke the triune man is still supported.

Read in Greek this verse does not say what is translated into English. "Ho logos" became flesh but "ho logos" is not "ho theos".

No, the WORD was not THE triune God. But in the communion of the Godhead (in this verse) the three are equally submitted together and I'd liken it to this; The Father/soul thought it, the Word/pre incarnate spoke it, and the Holy Spirit created it. In the Greek they were all three "pros ton theos".

4314 pros: a prep. of direction; forward to, i.e. toward (with the genit. the side of, i.e. pertaining to; usually with the accus. the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, i.e. whither or for which it is predicated)

Or facing toward each other in this ELOHIM creative beginning. "Let US make man in OUR image, and after sin did become like "ONE" of the triune Godhead.
GEN 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil:

At Gethsemane it was his apostles who demonstrated that "the spirit was willing but the flesh was weak" in that they succumbed to sleep at the time when Jesus was about to be betrayed. He had asked them to stay awake and pray.

The spirit IN JESUS was the spirit of "the Christ". And 'that' spirit was committed to the Father's will. And it is that same spirit of Christ which is in us after our spirits become "a new creation" in us. Our soul wasn't 'born again/regenerated'.

His body was so stressed He sweat blood. His "soul was exceedingly sorrowful unto DEATH" (dealing with that consequence)

LUK 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened/sunecho/PRESSED/ till it be accomplished!
And Jesus was "PRESSED/sunecho by his spirit just like Paul was "pressed" by his "spirit";

ACT 18:5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed/sunecho in the spirit,
Note'; not his soul or his body, but his spirit.

Yep, but a human soul is the only thing that lives. There is nothing that is alive at death. Death is the very opposite of life.....it is not a continuation of it in some other place. It was the devil who suggested that lie in Eden when he said to Eve...."you surely will not die"....
It was Jehovah who said they would....so who lied? Jesus named the culprit.....he said to the Pharisees....

"You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44)

I presented the verses saying the spirit is what gives life to this 'bucket of dust/flesh' that WE LIVE IN, just like Paul said;

2CO 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Here indeed we groan, and long to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 so that by putting it on we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we sigh with anxiety; not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always of good courage; we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord,

Though our 'spirit' got saved (OSAS) at the new birth, we still had/have an unsaved soul and an unsaved body. We are "working out the salvation (of our soul) with fear and trembling." We await the salvation of our body so that we may have a glorified tabernacle/tent/body.

 

[Hillsage]

Yes, and it is interesting that all who died before Jesus did not receive "the heavenly calling". (John 3:13; Hebrews 3:1) That anointing was bestowed at Pentecost with the outpouring of the holy spirit. Jesus' death opened the way to heaven earning him the title "firstborn from the dead". (Col 1:15-17)

Before Jesus died...there was no "calling" available to "receive". Jesus wasn't "firstborn from the dead" until after He died.

He was certainly not the first to be resurrected, but in each case, he changed the destiny of the one he raised. Lazarus would join his sisters in a heavenly assignment. Before Jesus had fulfilled his role as Messiah, Lazarus had only an earthly hope, but since he was raised by Jesus and died after Jesus, his place in heaven is assured.

Jesus was 'the first to be resurrected" in a GLORIFIED body. Temporal resurrections assured you of nothing IMO. Though it would give one more time to continue to 'work out the salvation of their souls'.

Lazarus "slept", in a completely unconscious state....in keeping with the statements made by Solomon in Eccl 9:5,6,10.....
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun . . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going."

His soul was 'unconscious'/"sleeps", but his body was mortally dead. His spirit???? The JEws believed that the spirit remained 'around' for 3 days before returning to the "Father of all spirits" "God of the spirits of all flesh". That's what made the resurrectrion of Lazarus a bigger miracle than most understand. Jesus "waited" 2 days before even going to raise Lazarus.

The spirit is indeed the animating force, but it is not separate from the body.

Your 'opinion'? ?? MY scripture ....
ECC 12:7 Then shall the dust/BODY return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

LUK 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The Greek pneuʹma (spirit) comes from pneʹo, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ruʹach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ruʹach and pneuʹma, then, basically mean “breath”.

Spirit is not "breath". Spirit is the animating life force that causes the brain to 'function'. The flesh brain then tells the diaphram muscle (via flesh nerves) to contract therefore causing 'inspiration' or a breathing IN. When the spirit departs exepneusen "gave up the ghost" your/Jesus brain quits functioning and you 'breath your last'....or 'expire' AIR OUT. But that is 'after' the spirit left.

What made Adam a "soul"? It was the "breath (spirit) of life". Adam's life started when he took his first breath.
"Spirit" in the scriptures, is that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion. God breathed life into Adam.

No, soul is not breathing, soul was the 'functioning brain' and the Greek word for soul is PSUCHE the word from which we get Psychology, Psychosomatic, Psych ward. That has nothing to do with your spirit/pneuma a word from which we get Pneumothorax, pneumatic or things pertaining to air. An scripture doesn't say God is oxygen, it says His spirit is like oxygen/wind which blows where 'it' will and you can't 'see it'. You only see the results of what it may be doing. In this case, the spirit gives the 'lifeforce' to make the brain function and cause Adam to be a "breathing/chay creature/nephesh" just like all the animals in Genesis were "living/chay creatures/nephesh".

The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s holy spirit."

You are calling the 'figurative' definition the 'literal' interpretation. It is not. The spirit is literal and the wind is analogous.

Since the highest penalty one could pay under God' law (for any crime) was death, those who have died have "paid sin's wages". Consequently, Romans 6:7 says..."For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin." So at the resurrection, the dead are raised with a clean slate....they will be judged on how they live after their resurrection, that will determine whether they get to keep living...or not during the thousand year reign of Christ and his elect.

Not according to scripture. They will be judged for those things that they DID while in the flesh

2CO 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1PE 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

I do think a lot, which is why I find Bible study so satisfying.....we have so many resources available to us in these last days, that there is really no reason or excuse for any sincere Christian to reject the truth, or to believe the doctrines of a counterfeit faith that has existed for centuries.....but first you have to understand the treasure is buried.....and only those who put in the effort to dig deeper, are going to find the gems.

Most aren't willing to plumb the depths. I think too many have their ETERNAL HELL fire insurance and use 'greasy grace' as an excuse to live like hell.

 

[Hillsage]

That's your opinion--you might also be Hell bound AND use "greasy grace"

So, I'm not entitled to 'MY OPINION' and yet that's all you've offered above?????? Just maybe...my 74 years on this earth, 23 years as an unsaved Roman Catholic and then 51 years as a born again, water baptized and tongue speaking Spirit baptized believer have given me a little bit more OBSERVATION than you too....Just maybe.

 

[Johann]

So, I'm not entitled to 'MY OPINION' and yet that's all you've offered above?????? Just maybe...my 74 years on this earth, 23 years as an unsaved Roman Catholic and then 51 years as a born again, water baptized and tongue speaking Spirit baptized believer have given me a little bit more OBSERVATION than you too....Just maybe.

I'm not trying to pick a fight--enough of that going on.

 

[Johann]

He repented

...not to Jesus

 

[ButterflyJones]

I think he was saved. From the cross Jesus forgave all responsible for his crucifixion. Because they didn't know they were actually following God's plan for bringing Salvation.

 

[BeyondET]

Yep, but a human soul is the only thing that lives. There is nothing that is alive at death. Death is the very opposite of life.....it is not a continuation of it in some other place. It was the devil who suggested that lie in Eden when he said to Eve...."you surely will not die"....
It was Jehovah who said they would....so who lied? Jesus named the culprit.....he said to the Pharisees....

It's complicated stem cells can live up to 17 days after the breath departure.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It's complicated stem cells can live up to 17 days after the breath departure.

A stem cell isn't "life"...its a building block....a component of life...one of many that makes a "living soul" as Adam was.

Just as the component of a computer is just a component.....it will never be a computer.

 

[BeyondET]

A stem cell isn't "life"...its a building block....a component of life...one of many that makes a "living soul" as Adam was.

Just as the component of a computer is just a component.....it will never be a computer.

Stem cells are living and is life. Its the reason why organs can be transplanted to another human body because the stem cells are alive for awhile.

Are you saying that after death the cells that keep living for awhile is part of the soul?. No not a chance a transplanted organ doesn't have any remnant of a person's soul in it.

Im taking about the human cells. not the 10,000 or so species the human body host