The gods of amil.

[David in NJ]

I would agree, and I also believe the resurrection of the church is with the two witnesses in Rev 11. What comes after that is the Lord's bombardment of plagues on earth, in preparation for His D-day landing on the Mt, when He will slaughter the fielded armies around Armageddon.


Wouldn't be the first time on earth, but just the last. Once Jesus is King over all nations, none of His people will ever suffer persecution again. When Gog and Magog gather around the camp of the saints, He'll just have His fire of God come down to wipe them out out of hand.

This occurs in Revelation chapter 11 after the Two Witness Resurrect

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:
“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”

In the previous chapter = Revelation 10:7 we are told this:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled,
just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.”

Get the Pitcure!

 

[Gilligan]

We have not been physically resurrected yet.

True. Jesus has, and none of His saints are.

That will occur at the second coming.

True again.

We have been spiritually resurrected from the grave of sin upon salvation.

False. Being raised spiritually from the death of sinning, is not being resurrected from the dead. There is no 'spirit-only' resurrection, coming again of Christ, nor Millennium on earth.

That's been proven in another thread.

As I have shown you, Christians are spiritually reigning now in Christ

False again. There is no spirit-only reigning in Christ on earth, especially not over others.

Even in our own life, there is no such thing as spiritually reigning only, as though faith alone weren't dead without works. If we're not doing the truth of Jesus, then we are not believing nor reigning with Him.

Spirituality without righteousness and godliness, is new age style guruship, of divine imagination only.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord. According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

There is no divine spiritual power just resting between our ears, like a heavenly cherub over a do-nothing mercy seat.;)

Christians are now reigning over the invisible spiritual realm "in Christ."

Your reign is as invisible, that's for sure. Only you know about it too.

Send one of your invisible angels to tell me otherwise.

They are here to dethrone Christ in the lives of the ungodly through the glorious Gospel of Christ.

Christ can be dethroned. Strange talk from someone who likes to accuse others of belittling His power.

Jesus just can't sit and sup with anyone that doesn't have enough faith to obey His voice and open the door to Him. Nor does He stay seated around any table where the devil is also made welcome.

Anyone sinning with the devil doesn't dethrone Christ from anything. They just have Him leave for a time, and He does so. He knows when He's not wanted.

 

[jeffweeder]

Of course not. They don't believe in a millennial reign at all. That's why it's called a-millennialism.

Spirit-only pseudo millennialism is just legendary rule of one's own mind.

The millennium clearly has a beginning and an end and it begins with Jesus victory on the cross and the born again of the SPIRIT experience for those who believe.
It now is.

Jn 5
24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

25 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, a time is coming and is [here] now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear it will live.


This is followed by the Bodily resurrection when the Lord comes again in judgment at the end of the age.


26 For just as the Father has life in Himself [and is self-existent], even so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself [and be self-existent]. 27 And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is a Son of Man [sinless humanity, qualifying Him to sit in judgment over mankind]. 28 Do not be surprised at this; for a time is coming when all those who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and they will come out—those who did good things [will come out] to a resurrection of [new] life, but those who did evil things [will come out] to a resurrection of judgment [that is, to be sentenced].


That is what Rev 20 is referring to. The time NOW IS to partake of the power of the Lords own resurrection and not come into the judgment.

God bless.

 

[David in NJ]

The millennium clearly has a beginning and an end and it begins with Jesus victory on the cross and the born again of the SPIRIT experience for those who believe.
It now is.

Jn 5
24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

25 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, a time is coming and is [here] now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear it will live.


This is followed by the Bodily resurrection when the Lord comes again in judgment at the end of the age.


26 For just as the Father has life in Himself [and is self-existent], even so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself [and be self-existent]. 27 And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is a Son of Man [sinless humanity, qualifying Him to sit in judgment over mankind]. 28 Do not be surprised at this; for a time is coming when all those who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and they will come out—those who did good things [will come out] to a resurrection of [new] life, but those who did evil things [will come out] to a resurrection of judgment [that is, to be sentenced].


That is what Rev 20 is referring to. The time NOW IS to partake of the power of the Lords own resurrection and not come into the judgment.

God bless.

AGREE - Every Blood Washed Saint will experience TWO Resurrections.

1st is the Spirit Birth/Born Again = John chapter 3 , Ephesians 2:1-10 , Hebrews 9:24-26

2nd is the Glorified Immortal Body - John 11:17-27 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor chapter 15 , 1 John 3:1-3 , Hebrews 9:28

 

[Gilligan]

This occurs in Revelation chapter 11 after the Two Witness Resurrect

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:
“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”

In the previous chapter = Revelation 10:7 we are told this:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled,
just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.”

Get the Pitcure!

I do. Rev 11 is the resurrection of the church at Christ's second coming. While still in the air, all nations of the earth are now inmherited by the Lord as prophesied.

All that remains is the slaughter in Judea, and execution of the goats. In the meantime, it will be the Lord's turn to recompense tribulation upon the earth.

However long between the rapture, and the Lord's standing on the earth, is still a matter of conjecture for me.

 

[Gilligan]

The millennium clearly has a beginning and an end and it begins with Jesus victory on the cross and the born again of the SPIRIT experience for those who believe.
It now is.

Jn 5
24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

25 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, a time is coming and is [here] now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear it will live.


This is followed by the Bodily resurrection when the Lord comes again in judgment at the end of the age.


26 For just as the Father has life in Himself [and is self-existent], even so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself [and be self-existent]. 27 And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is a Son of Man [sinless humanity, qualifying Him to sit in judgment over mankind]. 28 Do not be surprised at this; for a time is coming when all those who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and they will come out—those who did good things [will come out] to a resurrection of [new] life, but those who did evil things [will come out] to a resurrection of judgment [that is, to be sentenced].


That is what Rev 20 is referring to. The time NOW IS to partake of the power of the Lords own resurrection and not come into the judgment.

God bless.

Already challenged this stuff, with no response.

There is no spirit-only second coming, resurrection, and millennium on earth.

Nor does the Lord come again to condemn and punish all. Precondemned judgment is a hypocritical show trial.

 

[jeffweeder]

Cop out.

Already challenged this stuff, with no response.

Really. Not with me you havent.

Nor does the Lord come again to condemn and punish all. Precondemned judgment is a hypocritical show trial.

God calls every human since the cross to repent.....as he has fixed a certain day in the future.


Act 17
26 And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands and territories. 27 This was so that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grasp for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being], as even some of [f]your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29 So then, being God’s children, we should not think that the Divine Nature (deity) is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination or skill of man. 30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”


That fixed day will be his sudden coming to glorify us in a twinkling of an eye...,

Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 I was naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me [with help and ministering care]; I was in prison, and you came to Me [ignoring personal danger].’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it for Me.’

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons); 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me [with help and ministering care].’ 44 Then they also [in their turn] will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will reply to them, ‘I assure you and most solemnly say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these [my followers], you did not do it for Me.’ 46 Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”

2thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of [c]everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

 

[Gilligan]

Cop out.



Really. Not with me you havent.

God calls every human since the cross to repent.....as he has fixed a certain day in the future.

True. Every person will die if they live long enough. And He will come again a second time to earth. He hasn't yet.

That fixed day will be his sudden coming to glorify us in a twinkling of an eye...,

If we're not found sinning with the world at the time. Hypocrites remain with the hypocrites on earth.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[Gilligan]

Cop out.



Really. Not with me you havent.

It's all the same, whether you or one of your other spiritual millennialists.

 

[Truth7t7]

The millennium clearly has a beginning and an end and it begins with Jesus victory on the cross and the born again of the SPIRIT experience for those who believe.
It now is.

"False" reformed eschatology

The word "Millennium" dosent exist in my English Holy Bible, just like the word "Trinity"

The words (Thousand Years) in Revelation 20:4-6 is doing nothing more than show that God's eternal realm is outside of time, one day is a thousand years "No Literal Time", that seen in Revelation 20:4-6 is God's eternal spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

Today the words (Billion/Zillion Years) could be used, it's not literal earthly time with a start and stop point as reformed eschatology falsely claims

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The amil doctrine slyly prophecies the serpent's promise of becoming as gods in heaven and on earth. They do so from the side door, much like how the serpent may have entered the garden.

You need to repent of your lying ways or you are going to end up in hell. You can't say you haven't been warned. If you have no conscience about lying, as seems to be the case, then what does that say about you? It says that you have no interest in obeying God and pursuing righteousness. We're not perfect as Christians, but if you are not sorry for your sins and don't have a desire to pursue righteousness, then that is a clear sign that you are not a true Christian.

The Amil doctrine absolutely does NOT teach that we are "as gods in heaven and on earth". That is a lie and nothing more. Why do you feel the need to lie about Amil? Because you know you can't refute what Amils actually believe with scripture? That must be the case.

1. Amil says the first resurrection is Jesus' bodily resurrection.

Because scripture teaches that.

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

It then says Christians already have part in it.

Because scripture teaches that.

Ephesians 2: 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Since the first resurrection is confirmed as bodily, and not spiritual only, then in effect amil teaches we already have part in first bodily resurrection.

It teaches that we spiritually have part in Jesus's bodily resurrection. Stop trying to twist what we believe. That's what people do when they know they can't refute what someone believes. They misrepresent what others believe.

2. That is also added to the amil teaching, that we are now reigning in heaven, as well as on earth. That means we are now in heaven reigning with God.

Amil does NOT teach that. We who are alive are obviously not reigning in heaven literally. According to Paul, we reign with Christ in heavenly places in a spiritual and figurative sense, but not literally. We believe that the souls of the dead in Christ are literally in heaven now and reign with Christ there.

This is the heresy of the resurrection is past, that Paul rebukes, because they believed they were now rulers in heaven, while on earth.

We don't claim that the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ is past. That would be heretical. That is what full preterists believe, not amillennialists.

And no Christian is ever ruling with God in heaven, before or after the resurrection of the dead. The only place Christians reign and rule with Christ is on earth.

Do you believe in soul sleep? Why couldn't the souls of the dead in Christ be reigning with Christ in heaven?

No Scripture ever teaches that there are 'co-rulers', i.e. co-ruling gods, with God the Father and Son on His throne, nor with God and the Lamb in New Jerusalem. Being seated in heavenly places has nothing to do with reigning and ruling over heaven. Those heavenly seats are only in our hearts, where the Lord sups with us on earth. That is when we behold the kingdom of God is within us, not we are now in heaven, and certainly not ruling over it.

We don't claim that we are literally in heaven now. Where did you come up with this nonsense? Certainly not from any Amils.

3. Finally, along with this rule of nations on earth, amil exhorts the modern church militant of making war with others and other nations, to establish the Lord's kingdom rule on earth.

Another flat out lie. Do you have no conscience when it comes to lying? What is wrong with you? You have serious issues and are in serious danger of ending up in hell. No one who has no conscience regarding sin will inherit the kingdom of God.

Amil absolutely does NOT exhort "the modern church militant of making war with others and other nations, to establish the Lord's kingdom rule on earth". Where in the world did you come up with that? How can you just lie like this and think nothing of it?

The combination of these three teachings, is of resurrected immortal gods reigning in heaven and on earth. Combined with OSAS, their godship is immortal forever in their own right, that can never fail to be ruling over heaven and earth.

What are you talking about? No Amil has ever said these things. You're making up lies against Amil. Why? I can only conclude that it's because you are completely unable to refute what we actually believe.

And with all the amil infighting with non-amil heretics, it certainly sounds like the immortal gods are still alive and kicking as always.

I just wonder how many others, whether Christian, Jew, or Muslim, are now being ruling over on earth. Should we declare ourselves rulers of the universe, including heaven and earth, and start telling others what to do for Christ's kingdom come? Or how many angels are we now ruling over in heaven? Do we offer sage counsel to the Son on the throne, Who may pass it on to the Father?

Most of this stuff is merely over spiritualization of physical things prophesied. But declaring ourselves to be ruling over heaven with God at this time, is across the line immortal gods stuff.

What a bunch of nonsense. You should be embarrassed for telling lies like this. There is something very wrong with you.

Now, if we have also come down to earth to reign, after we were resurrected, then that would be heavenly icing on the delusional cake.

The only delusional one here is you because you are the one making things up.

 

[Truth7t7]

Because scripture teaches that.

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

(First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:4-6 pertains to the "Fact" that (The Dead In Christ Shall Rise "First"), it's has no association to Jesus being the first fruit of the resurrection as you claim

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

(First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:4-6 pertains to the "Fact" that (The Dead In Christ Shall Rise "First"), it's has no association to Jesus being the first fruit of the resurrection as you claim

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This really illustrates your lack of interpreting scripture in context. Paul was not referring to the order of resurrections in 1 Thess 4:16. If you look at the context of that verse you should see that Paul was saying that before all who are in Christ (including those who are alive and remain until His second coming) are caught up to meet Him in the air, the dead in Christ will be resurrected first before that happens.

So, the order he was giving there was not an order of resurrections, but rather an order of what will happen after Jesus descends from heaven. First, the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Then, those who are still alive at that point will be caught up with the resurrected (formerly) dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. And, of course, we will all be changed to have immortal bodies at that time as well (1 Cor 15:50-54).

 

[Truth7t7]

This really illustrates your lack of interpreting scripture in context. Paul was not referring to the order of resurrections in 1 Thess 4:16. If you look at the context of that verse you should see that Paul was saying that before all who are in Christ (including those who are alive and remain until His second coming) are caught up to meet Him in the air, the dead in Christ will be resurrected first before that happens.

So, the order he was giving there was not an order of resurrections, but rather an order of what will happen after Jesus descends from heaven. First, the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Then, those who are still alive at that point will be caught up with the resurrected (formerly) dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. And, of course, we will all be changed to have immortal bodies at that time as well (1 Cor 15:50-54).

The first order at the second coming is, "the dead in Christ rise first" to eternal life, the wicked rise after this in judgement to the lake of fire

The Lord first gathers the wheat into his barn, after this the chaff is burnt with unquenchable fire

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The first order at the second coming is, "the dead in Christ rise first" to eternal life, the wicked rise after this in judgement to the lake of fire

But, that is not the context of what Paul was saying, as I showed you. Did you read what I showed you? Are you willing to learn something for once? You're not even thinking here. Revelation 20 is very clear that those who have part in the first resurrection reign with Christ for a thousand years (Rev 20:4-6) which we Amils see as referring to a long, undefined amount of time rather than a literal thousand years. If the first resurrection doesn't even occur until His second coming, then, from an Amil perspective, how can those who have part in the first resurrection reign with Christ for a thousand years (a long time) after that? That isn't possible from the Amil perspective. So, why are you Amil?

Your particular doctrine is all messed up. You mix elements of Amil and Premil together and it's just a complete contradictory mess.

 

[Truth7t7]

But, that is not the context of what Paul was saying, as I showed you. Did you read what I showed you? Are you willing to learn something for once? You're not even thinking here. Revelation 20 is very clear that those who have part in the first resurrection reign with Christ for a thousand years (Rev 20:4-6) which we Amils see as referring to a long, undefined amount of time rather than a literal thousand years. If the first resurrection doesn't even occur until His second coming, then, from an Amil perspective, how can those who have part in the first resurrection reign with Christ for a thousand years (a long time) after that? That isn't possible from the Amil perspective. So, why are you Amil?

Your particular doctrine is all messed up. You mix elements of Amil and Premil together and it's just a complete contradictory mess.

Im Ahmill, but not of the reformed preterist persuasions that you seem to follow

The words (Thousand Years) in Revelation 20:4-6 is doing nothing more than showing those seen are in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm where one day is a thousand years, no literal time "Eternal"

If a tribulation Saint were to die one day before the second coming, he enters into this non literal (Thousand Years)

Today the expression could be said (Billion Years) its not literal earthly time

Reformed eschatology falsely places this upon the living in Christ, when Revelation 20:4-6 clearly teaches those seen are (The Souls) and (The Dead) in the Lord's eternal spiritual

The $600 dollar question is, why does reformed eschatology falsely place this (Thousand Years) in Revelation 20:4-6 on those living in Christ, 100% out of context regarding what is written (The Souls) (The Dead)?

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Im Ahmill, but not of the reformed preterist persuasions that you seem to follow

Don't start this nonsense with me again unless you just want to go back on my Ignore list. It's up to you whether you want to be a child or an adult.

The words (Thousand Years) in Revelation 20:4-6 is doing nothing more than showing those seen are in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm where one day is a thousand years, no literal time "Eternal"

It has to refer to an actual period of time with a beginning and ending rather than eternity or else the reference to Satan being loosed for a short time AFTER the thousand years has ended would not make any sense.

If a tribulation Saint were to die one day before the second coming, he enters into this non literal (Thousand Years)

Today the expression could be said (Billion Years) its not literal earthly time

I, of course, agree that it's not a literal thousand years. But, it's also not eternity. There are clear indications that the thousand years comes to an end and THEN Satan is loosed for a short time (little season).

Revelation 20:3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

How do you reconcile your view with these verses which clearly indicate that the thousand years will come to an end BEFORE time comes to an end? The thousand years CANNOT be eternal when it clearly will come to an end and be followed by a short time (Satan's little season) before the end of time comes.

 

[Truth7t7]

Don't start this nonsense with me again unless you just want to go back on my Ignore list. It's up to you whether you want to be a child or an adult.

It's my understanding you believe and teach preterist 70AD fulfillment, correct me if I'm wrong?

(Thousand Years) is symbolic and has no literal meaning, as you suggest a start and finish

(Thousand Years) expires is figurative speech, it isn't a literal concept to begin with

 

[Timtofly]

This really illustrates your lack of interpreting scripture in context. Paul was not referring to the order of resurrections in 1 Thess 4:16. If you look at the context of that verse you should see that Paul was saying that before all who are in Christ (including those who are alive and remain until His second coming) are caught up to meet Him in the air, the dead in Christ will be resurrected first before that happens.

So, the order he was giving there was not an order of resurrections, but rather an order of what will happen after Jesus descends from heaven. First, the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Then, those who are still alive at that point will be caught up with the resurrected (formerly) dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air. And, of course, we will all be changed to have immortal bodies at that time as well (1 Cor 15:50-54).

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Those already in Paradise Jesus brings with Him. They all have already risen first. No living person, not even in the first century, prevented their resurrection in the first century.

Jesus says the angels gather them from all over Paradise. Paradise is the heaven they are gathered from.

Paul states in 2 Corinthians 5:1, they already have a permanent physical body after the soul leaves this body to dissolve in death.

There was no more waiting in Abraham's bosom for the physical resurrection. That was available at the Cross.

If all are changed, then all are also resurrected. Those alive on earth will be resurrected out of Adam's state of death, this flesh, into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. The change has always been the moment the soul leaves Adam's dead flesh, for God's living physical body. The change is a resurrection, out of death into eternal life. The soul changes this outer garment for a different outer garment. The soul does not do the work, but God does the work of changing outfits.

Those in Paradise don't need to change their bodies. They would not be allowed in Paradise without God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Only those on earth at the Second Coming need to change the physical body.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's my understanding you believe and teach preterist 70AD fulfillment, correct me if I'm wrong?

Is there something wrong in your brain that prevents you from understanding things even after being told many times? I have told you many times that I am not a preterist. I will tell you what I believe. It's not your job to tell me what I believe.

A typical preterist believes that a coming of Jesus occurred in 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that a resurrection of the dead occurred in 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typcial preterist believes that all of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled by 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that at least most of the book of Revelation is already fulfilled. Everything up to the end of Revelation 19, at least. I do not believe that.

Just because I may agree with them on a couple of things does not make me a preterist. With that logic I would also be a futurist since I agree with futurists on some things, which would render these labels to be completely meaningless and pointless.

(Thousand Years) is symbolic and has no literal meaning, as you suggest a start and finish

It very specifically talks about the thousand years ending first and then Satan is loosed for a short time after the thousand years ends. It mentions that in both Revelation 20:3 and Revelation 20:7. Why would you deny something so obvious? You have a lot in common with many others here who are too stubborn to ever admit they are wrong even when it's blatantly obvious, such as in this case.

(Thousand Years) expires is figurative speech, it isn't a literal concept to begin with

It's figurative speech representing an indefinite amount of time. It doesn't represent eternity or else it would not talk about the thousand years ending, which it does in Rev 20:3 and Rev 20:7. When it ends it will be followed by what many call "Satan's little season". And then Jesus will return at the end of that "little season". He will be the One to put and end to it.