What is "OSAS"?

[Taken]

I'll ask it a different, even simpler way, Scott. Do you believe you no longer sin, that you are now sinless?

Grace and peace.

Saved and Quicken men ARE establish-ed ‘sons of God” and sin NO MORE.

No human IS SINLESS, until the manifestation of their glorified Body has come into fruition.

From out of the dust God formed a thing and called it MAN. That form (BODY) MUST DIE, must return to the Earth.

Mean time- souls, spirits within the body are (for some) being restored, born again, WITHOUT human eyes observation.

When the day for Judgement arrives, ALL body’s shall be raised up.

Some raised in a new glorious, sinless body, some not.

So no, Bodys are not sinless…
saved souls and quicken spirits…applies to the soul being ‘restored’ and the natural spirit born of a mans seed, being reborn of Gods Seed…
The Body’s sin is forgiven, covered, remembered no more, but has not disappeared, UNTIL the body is risen up in glory.

 

[amigo de christo]

Saved and Quicken men ARE establish-ed ‘sons of God” and sin NO MORE.

No human IS SINLESS, until the manifestation of their glorified Body has come into fruition.

From out of the dust God formed a thing and called it MAN. That form (BODY) MUST DIE, must return to the Earth.

Mean time- souls, spirits within the body are (for some) being restored, born again, WITHOUT human eyes observation.

When the day for Judgement arrives, ALL body’s shall be raised up.

Some raised in a new glorious, sinless body, some not.

So no, Bodys are not sinless…
saved souls and quicken spirits…applies to the soul being ‘restored’ and the natural spirit born of a mans seed, being reborn of Gods Seed…
The Body’s sin is forgiven, covered, remembered no more, but has not disappeared, UNTIL the body is risen up in glory.

many wont be liking what they get told on that day either .
My advice remains . WE BESS preach JESUS CHRIST , not jesus , not some other gospel
not some mindset that gives muslims buddits , atheist some other get of jail card by lovey do either .
Hey taken , many are gonna tell you that them other religoins DO LOVE GOD , if they do good .
BUT DONT BUY THAT LIE .
YOU SEE , IF ONE TRULY LOVED GOD , THEY WOULD HAVE LOVED CHRIST JESUS , NOT DENIED HIM as the CHRIST .
Those who deny HIM as the CHRIST , they are anti christ . ALWAYS remember that . WE GOTTA POINT TO JESUS CHRIST
we gotta remind all YE MUST BELIEVE . cause , well all else is vain .
GOTTA remember cornelious . CORNELIOUS is a very good example which should all show and tell and remind us of something .
YOU SEE CORNELIOUS did DO MUCH GOOD , had much love for the poor , DID many prayers too .
BUT TO BE SAVED , WELL HE HAD TO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST .
IF CORNELIOUS , who did much good , HAD TO HEAR THE GOSPEL and BELEIVE to be saved
I GOT NEWS , NO ONE ELSE IS GONNA GET A LOVEY DO FREE PASS TO GOD .
GOTTA BELIEVE . GOTTA BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND . JESUS IS THE CHRIST , THE ONLY NAME
whereby one may be saved . TO GIVE OUT any other hope under guise of lovey do good works , IS VAINITY
and it wont bode well for those who helped sell that lie either . WE GOTTA BELEIVE . NOW take that TO THE GRAVE my friend

 

[Jack]

Once saved always saved? I don't get the point. If Christians can NEVER be unsaved why preach it?

 

[Taken]

Once saved always saved? I don't get the point. If Christians can NEVER be unsaved why preach it?

Misconceptions.

To NEVER be UNSAVED is not determined by a person calling themselves a Christian.

Converted IN Christ is the key…not a person calling themselves a Christian.

Ever hear of men storing up riches on Earth for themselves?
Ever see a U-haul loaded with a mans riches being pulled by a hearse carrying that mans body?

A Converted mans riches are earned ON Earth and are stored up in heaven.
How are such riches earned?
By the mans “works” of Glorifying God.
How does a man DO “works” to Glorify God?
Continually Speaking Gods Truth, sharing Gods Truth, that others may also Believe and elect to become Converted.
What is the big deal for a man to become Converted?
A converted man becomes Gods inheritance.
A converted man WHO does Glorify God, is taking part in securing Gods inheritance.
That mans works becomes a debt unto God.
God repays that debt with REWARDS.
The rewards are given the man When Jesus returns to Earth.
What are the rewards?
Crowns.
What do crowns represent?
Authority.
Shall there be a hierarchy in Christ Jesus’ Kingdom? Yes.
The hierarchy is determined by those willing to have faithfully served the Lord, Glorifying Him, before His return, despite the hardships, hate, tribulations, men OF the Earth, (not IN Christ, deniers Of Christ), heap upon the Converted.
The highest of the hierarchy begins with the the faithful Apostles, they continuing to Glorify God, despite threats, hate, hardships and some suffering gruesome deaths.
Such “works” of Glorifying God, do not save a man. They establish a Saved mans worthiness be of high service in Christ’s Kingdom.

It boils down to if a man wants to be a proven Faithful Servant (unto the Lord) in this world despite hardships … how worthy shall a Faithful Servant be, without the hardships.

Do not be amiss. Plenty of men shall barely (last minute) enter into the Lords Kingdom, having not spent their natural lives Glorifying God. Their reward shall be less.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Marymog]

I have a RC Bible and Doctrines never once did i read about mans good works ever being portrayed as in relation to God or Christ Jesus !
I was shocked to see people who were RC make such claims as their works will get them into Heaven !

Hi Reggie,

Those Catholics that claimed that by works alone they will obtain eternal salvation are not practicing what The Church teaches.

Thank you for your input....Mary

 

[Marymog]

I said regarding what we are/were talking about here, namely soteriology, the doctrine of salvation. Many would agree with you, in the same vein as Pelagius and Jacobus Arminius, as I said. Not nearly all Protestants ~ especially here in the West ~ follow the principles of the Reformation or are reformed in their beliefs with regard to soteriology.


That's a bit strange that you would characterize it that way; the purpose of Martin Luther in nailing his ninety-five theses to the door of Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany and Reformers like John Calvin who followed shortly thereafter) was certainly not to divide, but to expose abuse and corruption by Catholic clergy, who were selling "plenary indulgences," certificates supposed to reduce the temporal punishment in purgatory for sins committed by the purchasers or their loved ones... and more generally to return Christianity to the truths of the Word of God.

Grace and peace to you.

Thanks for the clarification PinSeeker. Now that you clarified your "soteriology" thought process it helps me get the gist of your point.

I characterize it that way because it is true. Look at the big picture and you will see that Luther rejected some long-taught beliefs and offered a few new beliefs of his own. He wasn't just fighting corruption and plenary indulgences. Calvin and the other English Reformers wanted changes to the teachings (changes of doctrine) of The Church also. They weren't just fighting corruption in The Church; they wanted changes to doctrines and they disagreed with each other on what those changes should be so the result was a fissiparous Protestantism. One of the few things they could agree on was to oppose “the Pope of Rome.”

If the only thing they wanted was to expose abuse and corruption, then once they broke away from The Church and started their own church they would have kept the same doctrines and teaching. They didn't do that. They started an entire new teaching of salvific beliefs. Other men that used to follow them then broke away from their teachings and started their own church. On and on and on for 500 years Satan keeps deceiving men.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

That is not the conclusion that I would advocate. But rather that certainly the saved know they are saved, while the unsaved are simply unsure in spite of many of them being hopeful...which is not the same thing.

Hey Scott,

Well, now you lost me. Even the Apostle Paul didn't "know" that he was saved so I am not sure how any other Christian can "know" they are saved.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Marymog said:
Hey Scott,

You have articulated your interpretation of that passage (1 John 3:9) very well. Thank you.

It seems many THINK they are saved, but they really may not be AND we will never know IF we are saved until our last day.

Mary,, where did youi get that from? its not Bible at all it reads that we may know we have eternal life -->

1 John 5:13-15​

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King James Version​

​

​

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him , that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


yes we can know if we have eternal life.

Hey Ezra,

I was telling Scott what I thought he meant in his post. I wasn't necessarily agreeing with him; I was interpreting his post.

None the less, Scripture says A LOT more on what one must do to obtain eternal life. Your use of one passage as proof that you are right is dangerous. If you read 1 John 1:9 you will see that IF we confess our sins, he will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. To be saved one must first believe (John 3:16, Acts 16:31). They must be repentant and get baptized (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21). To be saved one must declare with your mouth (Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9). In the end we will be judged and justified by our works (Romans 2:6, James 2:24). So, as you can see when all of Scripture is taken into context, we really won't know until the end and we have to do A LOT more than just "believe".


Keeping it real with all of Scripture......Mary

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Can someone please explain OSAS for me?

Which denominations or churches teach, preach and believe OSAS ?
Perseverance of the Saints - "Once Saved, Always Saved" (a common expression, with the relative acronym OSAS): a doctrine of Calvinist conceptions (and of Free Grace Protestant conceptions) of the Protestant Christian faith.

Some I found that believe OSAS.• Reformed Christianity.

Plymouth Brethren.

Free grace theology.

Molinism.

Hyper-Grace.

Catholicism.

Orthodoxy.

Lutheranism.

Looking at the doctrine of ‘once saved, always saved’ | Camden News

The doctrine of “once saved, always saved” teaches that it is not possible for a child of God to sin in such a way that he will be lost. Many people, who undoubtedly are very si

www.camdenarknews.com

 

[Marymog]

Once saved always saved? I don't get the point. If Christians can NEVER be unsaved why preach it?

@Taken @ScottA theory and the teaching on OSAS is that some THINK they are saved..... but they really aren't.

Some KNOW they are saved, and they really truly are because once they are saved, they can never be unsaved.

Once saved you can never sin again.....translation: you predict the future and KNOW that you will never sin again.

The OSAS theory doesn't really explain how one KNOWS they are saved and will never sin again......it's just a self-diagnosed feeling. An angel doesn't come down and tell you. There aren't like 50 check marks that one has to check off to KNOW.....you just kind of know.....in your head and heart. You don't go in front of a panel of elders and tell them what you have done to be OSAS and they agree with you or tell you that you have to do 5 more things. Or 10 more things if you go to a different group of elders. It's fluid....

The most important thing to remember Jack is if you disagree with an OSAS person you then KNOW that you are not saved. If you agree with them then you KNOW you are saved. So just agree with them so you will be saved.

Hope that helps....Mary

 

[Taken]

@Taken @ScottA theory and the teaching on OSAS is that some THINK they are saved..... but they really aren't.

Some KNOW they are saved, and they really truly are because once they are saved, they can never be unsaved.

Once saved you can never sin again.....translation: you predict the future and KNOW that you will never sin again.

The OSAS theory doesn't really explain how one KNOWS they are saved and will never sin again......it's just a self-diagnosed feeling. An angel doesn't come down and tell you. There aren't like 50 check marks that one has to check off to KNOW.....you just kind of know.....in your head and heart. You don't go in front of a panel of elders and tell them what you have done to be OSAS and they agree with you or tell you that you have to do 5 more things. Or 10 more things if you go to a different group of elders. It's fluid....

The most important thing to remember Jack is if you disagree with an OSAS person you then KNOW that you are not saved. If you agree with them then you KNOW you are saved. So just agree with them so you will be saved.

Hope that helps....Mary

Mary ~

You desperately trying to MAKE Gods Gift of Baptism of the Holy Spirit given to an individual person, BE dependent upon other mens thoughts, okay’s, agreements is ridiculous…and sad.

Your failure to KNOW what an individual mans SIN Against God is…sad.

Your failure to KNOW God has offered ALL men a WAY (according to Gods Way) HOW TO BECOME ‘set apart’ (Sanctified), and WITH the Lord God Almighty ONCE and FOR EVER is…BEFORE the mans physical Death…is sad.

Your failure to KNOW it is the individual mans choice to accept Gods offering, and Become MADE (by the Power of God), with the Lord God Forever and KEPT (by the Power of God) with the Lord God Forever….is sad.

Further it is … sad; For you, that does not apply to you.
:-(

 

[Taken]

@Marymog

A) Some ARE sanctified…already accomplishED.
(OSAS)

B) Some are NOT sanctified.

C) Some hope they SHALL be sanctified.

D)Some shall NEVER be sanctified.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I am in the (A) category.
How about you Mary? By your comments Against those who ARE sanctified…appears your standing is in the B, C, or D category.

 

[ScottA]

Hey Scott,

Well, now you lost me. Even the Apostle Paul didn't "know" that he was saved so I am not sure how any other Christian can "know" they are saved.

Mary

When reading Paul's writings, it should be clear that he walked and taught on the cusp of salvation principles and truth. This is why he even came to say that the word of truth must be "rightly divided." So, yes, Paul often spoke as one not knowing in full, seeing only dimly and in weakness; and yet every word from him is true if reconciled according to those it applies. The danger, is that not being of any greater knowledge of the Spirit than he, we too are prone to speak and believe what is not fully clear, even misrepresenting what is actually true by mistranslation and conjecture. But not turning to the right or to the left, keeping silent in church, and allowing the Spirit alone to speak, the truth continues to come "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little" until the end.

Even so, the saved even knowing only in part, know, if only in spirit. Assume nothing.

 

[dev553344]

Can someone please explain OSAS for me?

The only true OSAS is written in the bible:

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

That is what is written about God's chosen that cannot perish save for their own choices.

What that means is that mankind nor Satan and his devils can snatch God's chosen out of his hand. But they can choose to perish.

 

[Taken]

When reading Paul's writings, it should be clear that he walked and taught on the cusp of salvation principles and truth. This is why he even came to say that the word of truth must be "rightly divided." So, yes, Paul often spoke as one not knowing in full, seeing only dimly and in weakness; and yet every word from him is true if reconciled according to those it applies. The danger, is that not being of any greater knowledge of the Spirit than he, we too are prone to speak and believe what is not fully clear, even misrepresenting what is actually true by mistranslation and conjecture. But not turning to the right or to the left, keeping silent in church, and allowing the Spirit alone to speak, the truth continues to come "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little" until the end.

Even so, the saved even knowing only in part, know, if only in spirit. Assume nothing.

Saul / Paul’s personal history in unique.
His heritage, both Greek and Jewish.
A Roman citizen by birth right.
(via his dad a Gentile)
A Jew by birth right.
(Via his mom a Jew)

His own history reveals he was highly educated in Jewish Law, Jewish Traditions, even holding office within the Jewish Religious leaders, as a Jewish Pharisee.

In Saul’s day:
Gentiles were divided…some believing in the Jewish God AND Christ Jesus the Son of God, being the Jewish Messiah. Some not.

In Saul’s day:
Jews were divided…some believing in the Jewish God AND Christ Jesus the Son of God, being the Jewish Messiah. Some not.

Saul was in agreement with the Jewish Pharisees’ and the all of the Jewish Sanhedrin’s (except one named Joseph)…

That Jews who were following and believing
Jesus was the Christ Messiah….SHOULD BE rounded up and Killed, as a preventive measure to STOP the Divide among Jews.

And Saul was by all appearances a strong leader and participant in personally seeking Jews believing In Christ Jesus, rounding them up, and sending them to be killed.

Saul’s encounter with the Voice of Jesus speaking directly to him, Instantly changed Saul’s perspective.
Saul immediately AGREED to turn away from Being Against Christ Jesus, and in fact, AGREED to Serve Christ Jesus, according to the Service Christ Jesus would set before him to Do.

Saul’s transition took him on a 3 year journey, away from his own homeland to Arabia, where he was taught of the Holy Spirit.
And eventually returning home, was a man called Paul, with a mission, and very hard task as his Service unto Christ Jesus.

Did Paul Struggle with Committing Sin?
No.
Did Paul Struggle with the atrocities of his Past Sins Against Christ Jesus, and cause for the death of so many Jews?
Yes.
Did Paul Often USE himself, AS Saul, as a shamed example when he was Preaching?
Yes.

What a hard task, to be the persecutor, then the promoter, and hope people will accept your efforts as genuine.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which denominations or churches teach, preach and believe OSAS ?
Perseverance of the Saints - "Once Saved, Always Saved" (a common expression, with the relative acronym OSAS): a doctrine of Calvinist conceptions (and of Free Grace Protestant conceptions) of the Protestant Christian faith.

Some I found that believe OSAS.• Reformed Christianity.

Plymouth Brethren.

Free grace theology.

Molinism.

Hyper-Grace.

Catholicism.

Orthodoxy.

Lutheranism.

Looking at the doctrine of ‘once saved, always saved’ | Camden News

The doctrine of “once saved, always saved” teaches that it is not possible for a child of God to sin in such a way that he will be lost. Many people, who undoubtedly are very si

www.camdenarknews.com

While OSAS is generally referred to the calvinist doctrine that teach perseverance of the saints. it is False theology.

OSAS is also referred to a child of God. Who by their own free will have repented and come to the throne of grace as the tax collector. Where God begins a good work. And promises he will complete that work. We he has promised, we will never die, we will live forever. Or what most people call. Eternal security.

ps. Catholicism, orthodoxy and Lutherans do not believe in OSAS..

 

[Jack]

While OSAS is generally referred to the calvinist doctrine that teach perseverance of the saints. it is False theology.

OSAS is also referred to a child of God. Who by their own free will have repented and come to the throne of grace as the tax collector. Where God begins a good work. And promises he will complete that work. We he has promised, we will never die, we will live forever. Or what most people call. Eternal security.

ps. Catholicism, orthodoxy and Lutherans do not believe in OSAS..

It almost sounds like OSASers are trying to convince each other. Am I wrong?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It almost sounds like OSASers are trying to convince each other. Am I wrong?

Convince each other of what?

I actually never heard the term OSAS really until I came into a christian chat room. I also did not know many people felt it came from the fatalistic view of Calvinism.

all the same, once a person is saved, they are always saved. It’s called eternal life, the seal of the spirit. The promise that we will never die, that we will be raised.

while people may not like the dotrine as proposed by calvinism, the fact remains, the words are in themselves apart from doctrine, factual.

Again, I think the reason all these fights happen is people are tryign to fight calvinism. Most people I know who believe in eternal security, are not calvinist. They reject fatalistic teachings. We believe in free will..

so again, I am not sure what your asking here.

 

[Jack]

Convince each other of what?

I actually never heard the term OSAS really until I came into a christian chat room. I also did not know many people felt it came from the fatalistic view of Calvinism.

all the same, once a person is saved, they are always saved. It’s called eternal life, the seal of the spirit. The promise that we will never die, that we will be raised.

while people may not like the dotrine as proposed by calvinism, the fact remains, the words are in themselves apart from doctrine, factual.

Again, I think the reason all these fights happen is people are tryign to fight calvinism. Most people I know who believe in eternal security, are not calvinist. They reject fatalistic teachings. We believe in free will..

so again, I am not sure what your asking here.

I was just trying to understand OSAS. I guess I should have kept quiet.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was just trying to understand OSAS. I guess I should have kept quiet.

Which OSAS

The doctrine as found by Calvin

or the words once saved always saved, or as most people call it, eternal security.

They are two different things…