So Gods part wasnt enough to effect full complete reconciliation of all parties involved ? Yes or No
How Jesus has ALREADY Reconciled Us and the World unto God.
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No. You want to believe that God imposes salvation on some and damns the rest to hell. What a terrible thing to believe about God. I believe that it is blaspheme.
The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation !2
Now 1 Pet 2:24-25 , this passage shows us if we have eyes to see, how that the death of Christ in Vs 24, called there His Stripes, how that it caused them He took the stripes for, or died for, to return to the Bishop and Shepherd of their Souls in Vs 25 because His Stripes healed them 1 Pet 2:24-25
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
The proof or evidence of the Healing is their return to God, which is also reconciliation of them to Him. The word returned here in the greek is epistrephó and means:
I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself. However its an aorist indicative passive, meaning the person who is turning or returning is being turned, acted upon, its the efficaciousness of the Stripes of Christ that causes the person to turn, who was once gone astray ! Thats the end desired and purposed by God for the death of Christ, to return the lost sheep back to Him, and it was very successful !
The proof of the healing is the sinners being returned to God as exemplified here in the prodigal son Lk 15:18, 20
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
This is evidence from the scripture that Christ's Death also reconciles those gone astray , estranged men and women who are His Sheep, they are brought back to God or again as the Apostle Peter writes 1 Pet 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
That's reconciliation also ! His suffering for our sins, was for the purpose of bringing us back to God if indeed we were of His Sheep or Elect ! 7
Now 1 Pet 2:24-25 , this passage shows us if we have eyes to see, how that the death of Christ in Vs 24, called there His Stripes, how that it caused them He took the stripes for, or died for, to return to the Bishop and Shepherd of their Souls in Vs 25 because His Stripes healed them 1 Pet 2:24-25
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
The proof or evidence of the Healing is their return to God, which is also reconciliation of them to Him. The word returned here in the greek is epistrephó and means:
I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself. However its an aorist indicative passive, meaning the person who is turning or returning is being turned, acted upon, its the efficaciousness of the Stripes of Christ that causes the person to turn, who was once gone astray ! Thats the end desired and purposed by God for the death of Christ, to return the lost sheep back to Him, and it was very successful !
The proof of the healing is the sinners being returned to God as exemplified here in the prodigal son Lk 15:18, 20
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
This is evidence from the scripture that Christ's Death also reconciles those gone astray , estranged men and women who are His Sheep, they are brought back to God or again as the Apostle Peter writes 1 Pet 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
That's reconciliation also ! His suffering for our sins, was for the purpose of bringing us back to God if indeed we were of His Sheep or Elect ! 7
Thats Blaspheme to say Gods part wasnt enough to reconciled men to God. You also deny the Gospel 2 Cor 5:18-19
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
You are overlooking the fact that the scripture says that the whole world has been reconciled to God, "God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19. The world means everyone. However, the reconciliation must be received by faith.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
2Pe 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Think on this..
Hugs
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Think on this..
Hugs
The whole world reconciled to God ? Thats universalism ! Thats not scriptural, but a false teaching. Then you say it can be lost if the whole world doesnt receive it by faith. So you teach universalism and then turn around and teach one can lose their reconciliation that God established. Thats not scriptural
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I agree, and that certainly fits my understanding of verse 20.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2 Corinthians 5:20)
I know a young man who is dying way too soon who is angry at God for a lifetime of suffering and indignities and abuse and now incurable cancer. Question (and yes, it IS blasphemous in a sense): If God through Christ has forgiven Man, does man also need to forgive God?
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I am sorry for your friend. I have lost family to cancer... slowly, and it is painful to watch.
Did God create the cancer or is it from man's neglect and abuse of what he produces in this world that brings cancer?
There is an ad that runs all the time on tv. It concerns a lawsuit against Camp Lejuene where the water supply had been contaminated by man putting chemicals in the water. Many people who lived in Camp LeJuene now have many types of cancers.
My daughter's MIL is suffering from lung cancer and many other ailments and is also being considered in the class action lawsuit for damages done to her.
Is it fair to blame God for man's mistakes?
That's a hard situation Lambano.
I will be praying.
Hugs
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Reconciliation to God is two sided, however Christs death effects both sides. Christs reconciliation effects harmony between God and the reconciled sinner Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
That word reconcile is the greek word apokatallassō:
- to reconcile completely
- to reconcile back again
- bring back a former state of harmony
Harmony denotes all parties, parts involved,
It means to reconcile completely. Now if those for whom Christ died havent been reconciled to God, and He to them, then the Cross failed, scripture is false.
2 Cor 5:20 is the divine call to the reconciled, regenerated, a call converting them to Faith in what Christ has already done.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
And the whole world is reconciled to God.
I can see that, I watch the news and everyone is so loving and caring and giving.
No one has to lift a finger, no one has to repent.
Because the whole world is reconciled with God.
Did the cross fail then?
Not to those who humbled themselves and came to the cross and repented of their sins and asked for forgiveness, and died to self, was born again, has faith and believes in the saviour and our Lord Jesus Christ.
I should keep watching the news.. maybe I'm missing something...
(sarcasm.. it's in my dna ugh)
I can see that, I watch the news and everyone is so loving and caring and giving.
No one has to lift a finger, no one has to repent.
Because the whole world is reconciled with God.
Did the cross fail then?
Not to those who humbled themselves and came to the cross and repented of their sins and asked for forgiveness, and died to self, was born again, has faith and believes in the saviour and our Lord Jesus Christ.
I should keep watching the news.. maybe I'm missing something...
(sarcasm.. it's in my dna ugh)
Your theology is flawed because you cannot believe that Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Paul said that the world has been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. Are you calling Paul a liar?
Some people are born with birth defects because their parents were dope addicts or alcoholics. Whose should they curse?
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Nope, Paul isn't lying. Your just leaving out some very important verses along the way,
2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
See that "may be" ? that doesn't mean definately will....
If you take the time to read it all in context, there are certain things we must do. (ah no here comes grace v law) my bad
Listen:
2Co 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
HERE IS THE FIRST IF:
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
And here is the other DO:
2Co 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Paul is literally begging people to reconcile themselves to God.
This is a two-way street brother.
That's what Paul says.
First God reconciled the Apostles.. these be the firstfruits. Then he sent them on a mission to spread the word of reconciliation to the world.
Now, you can either recieve it or reject it. But Paul is BEGGING.. WE PRAY YOU...PLEASE.. be reconciled to God.
And by sending out the Apostles to the world, it was by this means, that God was in the PROCESS of reconciling the world unto himself.
I have my issues with Paul, But in this, he spoke no lie.
Hugs
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
You cannot read and believe scripture. Your Calvinist God has blinded you to the truth.
"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.
The false teaching of one sided Reconciliation !3
Another scripture passage that proves that Christ's death reconciles the estranged sinner back to God is here Col 1:20-22
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Notice for emphasis "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled"
And how was that Paul ? "In the body of his flesh through death"
Folks what can be more plainer than that, that the Apostle here attributes the reconciliation of the ones " that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,"
He attributes their reconciliation to God to Christ's Death !!!! He writes that it was through Death ! The word through dia means " on the account of"
This tells us that His death is the causative basis for being reconciled to God experimentally from our enmity and estrangement that we naturally have with Him !
Also the word reconcile here apokatallasso literally means :
to reconcile COMPLETELY, to change from one state of feeling [enmity] to another, to bring back to a former state of harmony, harmonious relations, this depicts the relation man had in Adam with God after his Creation and prior to his fall and disobedience.
The Death of Christ reinstates, restores that harmony with God but on a Higher Level through Spiritual Life given by Christ through New Birth. This was effected through His Death or was on the account of it, for the sake of it !
So with this in mind, whosoever among us who teaches that #1 Christ's Death alone does not effect the complete Salvation of the Ones He died, or #2 That the Reconciliation of His Death is ONLY ONESIDED Reconciliation, they are false witnesses and against Christ, and this what we have here proves it !
Another scripture passage that proves that Christ's death reconciles the estranged sinner back to God is here Col 1:20-22
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Notice for emphasis "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled"
And how was that Paul ? "In the body of his flesh through death"
Folks what can be more plainer than that, that the Apostle here attributes the reconciliation of the ones " that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,"
He attributes their reconciliation to God to Christ's Death !!!! He writes that it was through Death ! The word through dia means " on the account of"
This tells us that His death is the causative basis for being reconciled to God experimentally from our enmity and estrangement that we naturally have with Him !
Also the word reconcile here apokatallasso literally means :
to reconcile COMPLETELY, to change from one state of feeling [enmity] to another, to bring back to a former state of harmony, harmonious relations, this depicts the relation man had in Adam with God after his Creation and prior to his fall and disobedience.
The Death of Christ reinstates, restores that harmony with God but on a Higher Level through Spiritual Life given by Christ through New Birth. This was effected through His Death or was on the account of it, for the sake of it !
So with this in mind, whosoever among us who teaches that #1 Christ's Death alone does not effect the complete Salvation of the Ones He died, or #2 That the Reconciliation of His Death is ONLY ONESIDED Reconciliation, they are false witnesses and against Christ, and this what we have here proves it !
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