Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[marks]

@marks

Believers are sanctified by the blood of Christ.

And:

“…Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

And @mailmandan will post a commentary about an alternate universe where being sanctified doesn’t necessarily mean saved.

No sooner do I give a response refuting one assertion, and instead of answering that, you skip off to the next one. There is no need to flag me on your posts, if it's not going to be a responsive, and I might add, respectful, discussion.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

People we also have to remember that this is an online forum with just the name “Christian” in it. I don’t even consider myself part of “Christian culture”, as a follower of Yeshua. There will be people who will lean into understanding and then there are people who will hold on to traditions taught by man. If you wanna know the Bible really well, one has to read it in context and try to understand the full scope of the reality pertaining to these matters…

The world is a proving ground as they say, and if it’s you, and your relationship with God, or without God and you can just go after the world rather than the things of the spirit.

Its no a word salad. Not all belief is the same and not all belief saves as I already thoroughly explained to you in post #609.

You teach salvation by works, sinless perfection and you deny that Jesis is God. Don't be that guy who promotes heresy.

I don’t believe he has said anything like this at all, here we go getting into the flesh again and judge, poke, and prod.

Wow, Judging someone who believes in the death, burial, and resurrection? Good on you bud. What good did you do for God just now by the spirit?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

No sooner do I give a response refuting one assertion, and instead of answering that, you skip off to the next one. There is no need to flag me on your posts, if it's not going to be a responsive, and I might add, respectful, discussion.

Much love!

I’m sorry the truth offends you.

Did I hurt your feelings?

 

[MatthewG]

Is it not amazing how quickly the word of God, can be used in terms of

“This my belief and if you don’t believe my way; you’re cut off from God”

It’s the gospel that one should believe in, and not what you say (scriptural quoting the Bible at someone); and seek for truth while seeking out God in faith.

 

[MatthewG]

AMEN, MG!

Which effectively dissolves assurance of God's determination to save us.

It's so ironic that what is supposed to give assurance of salvation actually gives none at all.

If I know that I could be deceived into thinking I am irrevocably saved once and for all and later return to a life of sin only to find that I was never saved, then all I have to rely on is what amounts to "righteousness by sincerity," which may be fine and dandy for type A personalities with strong wills but, for those of us with plenty of "frequent stumbler miles," we need a Saviour we can depend on to pick us up when we fall.

I believed in eternal security for 18 years and all it did for me was to have me thinking I could never be saved because I kept failing the "sincerity" test. I thought: "How many times can I pull this backsliding stunt before God just says " Ephraim is joined to idols—leave him alone" (Hosea 4:17)?

Now that I've learned to "die daily" (1 Corinthians 15:31), my stumblings are increasingly fewer and farther between and I love and trust Him more than ever, so I know God is working on me and now I can concentrate on blessing my family and friends instead of worrying about how I'm going to manage slipping my slimy carcass between a crack between one of those pearly grates.

My dad is still struggling and suffering with this (and he was "saved" when Amos 'n' Andy was still on the radio), so much so that the only preacher he'll listen to anymore is Joel Osteen because he doesn't drag out the "Are you sure you're saved?" routine every Sunday.

Folks are free to believe as they see fit, but:

False assurance? None for me, thanks.


.

Thinking on this, it reminds me of those who “may” enter into the Kingdom.

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

It’s a daily choice to put God first in one’s life. Thank you for chiming in.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are reconciled to God as long as:

“…ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23)

Not if “ye continue in deep faith”.

Your “type of beliefs” argument is irrelevant.

Keep trying to earn your salvation. Keep telling God his death was not enough..

Harden your heart.. Its your eternity, not mine

 

[marks]

I’m sorry the truth offends you.

Did I hurt your feelings?

Diving into ad hominem . . . I guess this means you are done discussing the Scriptures. OK, I understand.

Next time you choose to address one of my posts, maybe give a moment to reflect just how much you actually wish to engage in discussion with me first, and maybe not bother if you aren't actually interested in a real discussion.

Much love!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dude, I have refuted those verses for you so many times I lost count.

But you are a man follower. Not a follower of the word. So i would not expect you to counter the truth that I said about what Jesus said.

You call him a liar. But refuse to acknowledge it because again, your a man follower

This is hilarious coming from a Protestant . . .

Two of your main doctrinal pillars (Sola Scriptura & Sola Fide) are man-made, 16th century inventions that were never taught by the historic Christian Church. Neither are they taught in Scripture.

As for countering the “truth” about what YOU said that Jesus said –
You didn’t say ANYTHING. Not ONE verse of Scripture.
All you wrote in post #471 was:
“Its not a myth,
If it is God lied.”

You can cherry-pick verses that appear to teach OSAS, but in the context of Scripture - it is NEVER taught. Our security is always conditional.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Diving into ad hominem . . . I guess this means you are done discussing the Scriptures. OK, I understand.

Next time you choose to address one of my posts, maybe give a moment to reflect just how much you actually wish to engage in discussion with me first, and maybe not bother if you aren't actually interested in a real discussion.

Much love!

I don’t understand.

The scriptures speak for themselves.

There’s really no discussion.

We should be edifying one another.

If nobody would alter what the scriptures teach there’d be unity.

But the carnal mind devises many reasonings to protect itself.

 

[MatthewG]

This is hilarious coming from a Protestant . . .

Two of your main doctrinal pillars (Sola Scriptura & Sola Fide) are man-made, 16th century inventions that were never taught by the historic Christian Church. Neither are they taught in Scripture.

As for countering the “truth” about what YOU said that Jesus said –
You didn’t say ANYTHING. Not ONE verse of Scripture.
All you wrote in post #471 was:
“Its not a myth,
If it is God lied.”

You can cherry-pick verses that appear to teach OSAS, but in the context of Scripture - it is NEVER taught. Our security is always conditional.

Thank you for sharing and contributing with the thread. In the past I was under the sola scriptura bandwagon, until finally someone said there is something wrong here.

 

[mailmandan]

Anyone with that type of belief will be lost.

But that’s not all.

Those with enduring belief who fall away to sin again will be lost as well too!

At least you acknowledge there is shallow, temporary belief. Progress! How is it enduring belief if someone permanently falls away?

 

[mailmandan]

Luke 8:13 KJV
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Look at the parallel passage:

Matthew 13:5 KJV
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

And now Jesus' explanation:

Matthew 13:20-21 KJV
20) But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21) Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

"and immediately with joy receives it (the word)" . . . an emotional reception. But there is no root, and when affliction comes, that's it.

This is not a converted person. This is a person happy to hear the Gospel, but doesn't take it in, to take root, and grow.

Much love!

Amen and well said!

 

[marks]

We should be edifying one another.

If nobody would alter what the scriptures teach there’d be unity.

In this we are in absolute agreement!

The only way we will have unity in our interpretations of Scriptures will be to accept the plain saying, once we've understood the metaphors and similies, and we've understood how the particular words are used in the Bible.

Those who see allegory in passages where it's not presented as allegory will never be in harmony with those who see a passage non-allegorical unless presented as allegory, for instance.

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

“…mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.” (Romans 16:17-18)

You need to stop weaponizing isolated verses in a slanderous way in an effort to attack others character and instead present a legitimate rebuttal using scripture in a proper way.

 

[mailmandan]

I don’t believe he has said anything like this at all, here we go getting into the flesh again and judge, poke, and prod.

Wow, Judging someone who believes in the death, burial, and resurrection? Good on you bud. What good did you do for God just now by the spispirit

He has not covered sinless perfection and the deity of Christ in this particular discussion but he has in many other discussions. Ask him what he believes about sinless perfection and also if he believes that Jesus is God. He has demonstrated that he teaches type 2 works salvation in this discussion though. I'm not judging him unjustly. I've had numerous discussions with him on this forum and on Christian Chat. I know what he believes in that regard. This is not my first rodeo with him.

 

[MatthewG]

He has not covered sinless perfection and the deity of Christ in this particular discussion but he has in many other discussions. Ask him what he believes about sinless perfection and also if he believes that Jesus is God. He has demonstrated that he teaches type 2 works salvation in this discussion though. I'm not judging him unjustly. I've had numerous discussions with him on this forum and on Christian Chat. I know what he believes in that regard. This is not my first rodeo with him.

Don’t care. It’s just rude. Why the hell do you think I care for this information!? I haven’t seen it personally, he is always been about allowing the works of God which are done through you. At least that is my opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

@mailmandan does love count wrongs against others? If they are in the wrong?

(Love)
1 Corinthians 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

 

[mailmandan]

Don’t care. It’s just rude. Why the hell do you think I care for this information!? I haven’t seen it personally, he is always been about allowing the works of God which are done through you. At least that is my opinion.

No need for profanity. Why so hostile? His slanderous remarks are rude, but I'm a grown man and can take it.

 

[MatthewG]

@mailmandan because it’s people who try to snide and be act as a judge against them as though you are God to say such things. Where do you get your personal authority? That kind of stuff does piss me off.

 

[mailmandan]

@mailmandan does love count wrongs against others? If they are in the wrong?

(Love)
1 Corinthians 13:5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

We are to share the truth in love yet false doctrine needs to be exposed.