The Case for the Sinless Ever-Virgin Mary.

[Soulx3]

1 Peter 2:21-22
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth";

ONLY Jesus was sinless!

Nowhere in Scripture do we read, "only Jesus committed no sin," but rather "Christ ... Who committed no sin" (1. Pet. 2:21-22). Jesus was God Incarnate, fully divine but also fully human, Who experienced temptations of evil, and through His will in cooperation with God the Father's help, He did not sin. He was a human exception to the "all have sinned" (Rom. 3:22), and there's no scriptural verse that prohibits the exception from applying to anyone else, including Mary, and thus Rom. 3:22 can't be used as proof Mary was with sin.

 

[Soulx3]

He could have but he didn't.

Now follow your own standard and provide the scriptural verse from the Bible that proves your statement: "God could have preserved Mary's soul from inheriting the stain of original sin, but He didn't."

Yes, God could have created Mary apart from Adam, but He didn't.

Now follow your own standard and provide the scriptural verse from the Bible that proves your statement: "God could have created Mary apart from Adam, but He didn't."

 

[Rita]

Nowhere in Scripture do we read, "only Jesus committed no sin," but rather "Christ ... Who committed no sin" (1. Pet. 2:21-22). Jesus was God Incarnate, fully divine but also fully human, Who experienced temptations of evil, and through His will in cooperation with God the Father's help, He did not sin. He was a human exception to the "all have sinned" (Rom. 3:22), and there's no scriptural verse that prohibits the exception from applying to anyone else, including Mary, and thus Rom. 3:22 can't be used as proof Mary was with si

Mary will always be respected for the fact that she was willing to be used in a special way, but that doesn’t make her any less human than anyone other than Jesus because she had two earthly parents, Jesus didn’t. ( Isn’t that the difference in reality )

 

[Soulx3]

Mary will always be respected for the fact that she was willing to be used in a special way, but that doesn’t make her any less human than anyone other than Jesus because she had two earthly parents, Jesus didn’t. ( Isn’t that the difference in reality )

Do you believe that God, in advance, could have Thought of creating the soul that was to be the soul of the Mother of God Incarnate, and because He knew Her soul would've been subject to the law of Adam and thus inherit the stain of original sin, He preserved it from inheriting the stain of original sin, and thus it became an immaculate soul capable of possessing the fullness of His Grace, then He infused it into the embryo at the moment of Her conception? Do you believe that these factors, coupled with being conceived by and born of two Just human parents and having a natural good will, could have resulted in Mary being without sin, and thus a worthy dwelling place for God Incarnate, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Savior, the most Holy and Perfect One, to be conceived and take form in, and live a divinely Holy life with in Spirit and Body on earth and in Heaven?

 

[Jack]

Nowhere in Scripture do we read, "only Jesus committed no sin," but rather "Christ ... Who committed no sin" (1. Pet. 2:21-22). Jesus was God Incarnate, fully divine but also fully human, Who experienced temptations of evil, and through His will in cooperation with God the Father's help, He did not sin. He was a human exception to the "all have sinned" (Rom. 3:22), and there's no scriptural verse that prohibits the exception from applying to anyone else, including Mary, and thus Rom. 3:22 can't be used as proof Mary was with sin.

Then why can't you find even one Scripture that says Mary was "without sin", "did no sin"? Hmm? Not even one! "All have sinned" includes Mary!

 

[Soulx3]

IOW, you want to avoid the Christian Bible. Got it!

Incorrect. You asked for information that is found in scriptural writings that make up the The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V. Before I do, let me know if you limit the knowledge of God to the Bible, so I don't waste my time revealing words of Jesus that you'll reject.

I never said or implied any such thing!

I didn't say you did. I said Jesus and Paul spoke of death as in a physical one, not a spiritual death, because the soul is immortal and thus alive, but one day their soul and body will reunite, and they'll be alive in their physical body again as well.

 

[Soulx3]

Then why can't you find even one Scripture that says Mary was "without sin", "did no sin"? Hmm? Not even one! "All have sinned" includes Mary!

The fact Mary was the Mother of God Incarnate shows She had to be without sin (Lk. 1:35). It is also explicity stated in Scripture by Jesus Himself, it's just found in another book which you reject, because you limit knowledge of God to the book the Bible. Nowhere in Scripture do we read, "only Jesus committed no sin," but rather "Christ ... Who committed no sin" (1. Pet. 2:21-22). Jesus was God Incarnate, fully divine but also fully human, Who experienced temptations of evil, and through His will in cooperation with God the Father's help, He did not sin. He was a human exception to the "all have sinned" (Rom. 3:22), and there's no scriptural verse that prohibits the exception from applying to anyone else, including Mary, and thus Rom. 3:22 can't be used as proof Mary was with sin.

 

[Ritajanice]

The fact Mary was the Mother of God Incarnate shows She had to be without sin (Lk. 1:35). It is also explicity stated in Scripture by Jesus Himself, it's just found in another book which you reject, because you limit knowledge of God to the book the Bible. Nowhere in Scripture do we read, "only Jesus committed no sin," but rather "Christ ... Who committed no sin" (1. Pet. 2:21-22). Jesus was God Incarnate, fully divine but also fully human, Who experienced temptations of evil, and through His will in cooperation with God the Father's help, He did not sin. He was a human exception to the "all have sinned" (Rom. 3:22), and there's no scriptural verse that prohibits the exception from applying to anyone else, including Mary, and thus Rom. 3:22 can't be used as proof Mary was with sin.

There is no where in this scripture that says Mary was without sin.

Luke 1:35

New International Version

​

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.

 

[Jack]

The fact Mary was the Mother of God Incarnate shows She had to be without sin (Lk. 1:35).

No it doesn't.

It is also explicity stated in Scripture by Jesus Himself, it's just found in another book which you reject, because you limit knowledge of God to the book the Bible. Nowhere in Scripture do we read, "only Jesus committed no sin," but rather "Christ ... Who committed no sin" (1. Pet. 2:21-22). Jesus was God Incarnate, fully divine but also fully human, Who experienced temptations of evil, and through His will in cooperation with God the Father's help, He did not sin. He was a human exception to the "all have sinned" (Rom. 3:22), and there's no scriptural verse that prohibits the exception from applying to anyone else, including Mary, and thus Rom. 3:22 can't be used as proof Mary was with sin.

None of which even hints that Mary was sinless! Yeah, I'll stick with the Christian Bible that says "all have sinned" except Jesus.

 

[Jack]

There is no where in this scripture that says Mary was without sin.

That's a FACT!

 

[Ritajanice]

​

Was Mary sinless?​

ANSWER

Mary the mother of Jesus was a godly and blessed woman, but she was not without sin. Jesus was the only human without sin. Jesus “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). “In him is no sin” (1 John 3:5). Nothing of the sort is ever said of Mary or anyone else. Jesus Christ is fully human, but He is also fully God (John 1:1). He is the Lamb of God, “without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19), a title and description no other person can claim.

As an ordinary part of the human race, born into the world the ordinary way, Mary was not without sin. Romans 3:23 teaches that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Mary was an exception to this rule. The apostle John wrote, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us” (1 John 1:8–10). The “we” in this passage includes Mary, the mother of Jesus. To claim Mary is without sin is an example of “deceit.”

 

[Rita]

Do you believe that God, in advance, could have Thought of creating the soul that was to be the soul of the Mother of God Incarnate, and because He knew Her soul would've been subject to the law of Adam and thus inherit the stain of original sin, He preserved it from inheriting the stain of original sin, and thus it became an immaculate soul capable of possessing the fullness of His Grace, then He infused it into the embryo at the moment of Her conception? Do you believe that these factors, coupled with being conceived by and born of two Just human parents and having a natural good will, could have resulted in Mary being without sin, and thus a worthy dwelling place for God Incarnate, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Savior, the most Holy and Perfect One, to be conceived and take form in, and live a divinely Holy life with in Spirit and Body on earth and in Heaven?

Ok, the words ‘ could have ‘ are relevant because it means that it is speculation. For me personally it makes no difference because Jesus is my saviour, and it’s him I pray to and it’s him that intercedes, it’s Jesus that saved me, not Mary. I equally don’t need priests, or the apostles to pray to, I have Jesus.
I have an issue when something is speculation and it becomes a fact that is then proclaimed as relevant and solid and must be adhered to and worshipped. I have absolutely no reason before God to bow down and pray to Mary. I respect her as the mother of the Lord Jesus and for her faith and trust, but that is equally aligned to many within history.
kind regards
Rita

 

[Adrift]

Your foundationless mantra of "So mote it be!" is weak in the knees. I can sense that you honestly believe that Mary was sinless. The reality is different than what you desire. I really wouldn't have a huge problem with it if it were true. It isn't. Mary was created by a sinning father and mother just like you and I. The Bible speaks of no Godly change intervention or dispension. I believe that the physical joining of Jesus to a common human was in the plan and is perhaps germaine to God's intended message. Of course, your free to continue believing that is you choose. I pray that the Holy Spirit will help pull you into the light on this subject.

 

[RedFan]

When you agree that it's possible She is without sin, but you do not accept it, then you must still believe it's possible for Her to be of sin. Therefore, you're suggesting both scenarios could be true, but God isn't contradictory, so only one of those scenarios can be true. How could Mary not have been so Holy and Perfect, as to be Second only to God, in order to be the Mother of God Incarnate?

Your first sentence is spot on; I believe either one could be true. I can't say which, but I'm leaning strongly toward NOT without sin.

I would agree with your second sentence if you replaced "both scenarios" with "either scenario."

And since all things are possible with God, I answer your third sentence -- a question -- this way: God could choose a sinner as His vessel to accomplish the Incarnation if He so desired. Exempting Mary from original sin (inherited from Adam), and/or insisting that she must have committed no actual sin (the product of her free will choices) up to the time of Jesus' birth, is not the only way God could accomplish the birth of the only sinless man ever to be born of woman.

The RCC's view is that Mary was born without original sin, so I'll confine myself to that one. Once we insist that a child can be born sinless only if the mother is born sinless, we start down a rabbit hole that we cannot escape (was Mary's mother sinless? was her grandmother sinless? and so on . . .)

 

[Cassandra]

Ok, the words ‘ could have ‘ are relevant because it means that it is speculation. For me personally it makes no difference because Jesus is my saviour, and it’s him I pray to and it’s him that intercedes, it’s Jesus that saved me, not Mary. I equally don’t need priests, or the apostles to pray to, I have Jesus.
I have an issue when something is speculation and it becomes a fact that is then proclaimed as relevant and solid and must be adhered to and worshipped. I have absolutely no reason before God to bow down and pray to Mary. I respect her as the mother of the Lord Jesus and for her faith and trust, but that is equally aligned to many within history.
kind regards
Rita

Yep! There is always some kind of reasoning-(well Jesus was perfect, so Mary must have been perfect. And if she was perfect, then she must not have ever known man. and because He turned water into wine at her behest, He must always obey whatever she says in the afterlife.) And so on and so on, and scooby dooby do be.


As a matter of fact Rita, if you are a true Christian, you are blessed. You are called so.

Luke 11:27-28 "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

These verses bother me . The Israelites were worshipping the Queen Of Heaven in Jeremiah Where did they get the idea of a goddess? Asherah? Isis?
Jer7:18 " The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."
This, and Jeremiah 44:17-23 as well, show the anger of God at this

Jeremiah 44:17–25 ESV - But we will do… | Biblia

But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and...

biblia.com

.

 

[Rita]

Yep! There is always some kind of reasoning-(well Jesus was perfect, so Mary must have been perfect. And if she was perfect, then she must not have ever known man. and because He turned water into wine at her behest, He must always obey whatever she says in the afterlife.) And so on and so on, and scooby dooby do be.


As a matter of fact Rita, if you are a true Christian, you are blessed. You are called so.

Luke 11:27-28 "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

These verses bother me . The Israelites were worshipping the Queen Of Heaven in Jeremiah Where did they get the idea of a goddess? Asherah? Isis?
Jer7:18 " The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."
This, and Jeremiah 44:17-23 as well, show the anger of God at this

Jeremiah 44:17–25 ESV - But we will do… | Biblia

But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and...

biblia.com

.

I would have to look up the context but the Israelites were often Influenced by other cultures and gradually other beliefs crept in ……….rightly so, God showed that it didn’t have his approval

 

[simplefaith1]

Did Mary never have even one impure thought? Did she perfectly, without slip love everyone she came into contact with her entire life? Did she never, even fleetingly desire anything of another? Did she never tell any even little fibs when growing up? Doesn't sound right to me

 

[RedFan]

Did Mary never have even one impure thought? Did she perfectly, without slip love everyone she came into contact with her entire life? Did she never, even fleetingly desire anything of another? Did she never tell any even little fibs when growing up? Doesn't sound right to me

I don't think it sounded right to Luke either. Luke equates salvation with forgiveness of sin in Luke 1:77. Yet Luke 1:47 quotes Mary as referring to “God my Savior.” Why would she need a Savior if she was sinless?

 

[Pearl]

Do they ever talk back to you? Do you hear voices?

My niece is Catholic although she no longer goes to church and she hears her dead parents speak to her - which is really weird. And she prays to Mary and some saints.

 

[Jack]

Nowhere in Scripture do we read, "only Jesus committed no sin,"

And nowhere do we read in the Bible that birds fly backwards.