Where did Christian Universalism come from? - New or old?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
4,833
1,453
113
69
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
EXEGETICAL (ORIGINAL LANGUAGES)
Meyer's NT Commentary
Romans 5:18 f. Summary recapitulation of the whole parallel treated of from Romans 5:12 onwards, so that the elements of likeness and unlikeness contained in it are now comprehended in one utterance. Συλλογίζεται ἐνταῦθα τὸ πᾶν, Theodore of Mopsuestia. The emergence of the ἄρα οὖν now ushering in the conclusion, as well as the corresponding relation of the contents of Romans 5:18 f. to the indication given by ὁς ἐστι τύπος τοῦ μέλλοντος in Romans 5:14, carries us back to Romans 5:12; not merely to Romans 5:16 f. (de Wette, Fritzsche); or merely to Romans 5:15-17 (Hofmann, Dietzsch). The right view is taken by Philippi, Ewald, Holsten.

ἄρα οὖν] conclusive: accordingly then,[1335] in very frequent use by the Apostle (Romans 7:3; Romans 7:25, Romans 8:12, Romans 9:16; Romans 9:18, Romans 14:12; Romans 14:19; Galatians 6:10; Ephesians 2:19 et al[1336]), and that, contrary to the classical usage (Herm. a[1337] Antig. 628, a[1338] Viger. p. 823), at the beginning of the sentence. For the necessary (contrary to Mehring’s view) completion of the two sentences, which are in the sharpest and briefest manner compressed as it were into a mere exclamation (Ewald), it is sufficient simply to supply: res cessit, it has come, ἀπεβή (Winer, p. 546 [E. T. 734]), or ἐγένετο (Grotius). See Buttmann’s neut. Gr. p. 338. As it therefore has come to a sentence of condemnation for all men through One trespass, so also it has come to justification of life (which has for its consequence the possession of the future Messianic life, comp Romans 5:21; John 5:28-29) for all men through One justifying judgment. The supplying of τὸ κρῖμα ἐγένετο to the first, and τὸ χάρισμα ἐγένετο to the second half (so Fritzsche and Rückert), considering the opposite sense of the two subjects, renders the very compressed discourse somewhat singular.

διʼ ἑνὸς δικ.] through one judicial verdict (see on Romans 5:16; Romans 5:19), namely, that which was pronounced by God on account of the obedience of Christ rendered through His death. In strict logic indeed the δικαίωμα, which is properly the antithesis of κατάκριμα (as in Romans 5:16), should not be opposed to παράπτωμα; but this incongruity of a lively interchange of conceptions is not un-Pauline (comp Romans 5:15). And it is thoroughly unwarranted to assign to δικαίωμα here also, as in Romans 5:16, significations which it has not; such as actual status of being righteous (Hofmann, Stölting), fulfilment of right (Philippi, Mangold), making amends (Rothe), righteous deed (Holsten), righteous life-condition of Christ (Dietzsch), with which a new humanity begins, Acts of justification (Tholuck), virtuousness (Baumgarten-Crusius), obedience (de Wette), and the like—definitions, in which for the most part regard is had to the act of the death of Jesus partly with and partly without the addition of the obedientia activa (comp also Klöpper), while Fritzsche explains it of the incarnation and humiliation of Christ (Php 2:5; Php 2:8) as His recte factum. Ewald interprets rightly: “through One righteous sentence;” so also van Hengel and Umbreit.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ii. The idea that all men are saved by the work of Jesus whether they know it or not is known as universalism. “If the doctrine of universalism is being taught here, Paul would be contradicting himself, for he has already pictured men as perishing because of sin.” (Harrison)
All men will perish. Universalism does not teach otherwise.

[
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
4,833
1,453
113
69
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
SPECIAL TOPIC: ETERNAL (aiōnios)

Robert B. Girdlestone, in his book Synonyms of the Old Testament, has an interesting comment on the word "eternal":

"The adjective aiōnios is used more than forty times in the N.T. with respect to eternal life, which is regarded partly as a present gift, partly as a promise for the future. It is also applied to God's endless existence in Rom. 16.26; to the endless efficacy of Christ's atonement in Heb. 9.12; 13.20; and to past ages in Rom. 16.25; 2 Tim. 1.9; Titus 1.2.

This word is used of

Israel's God as eternal
OT ‒ Deut. 33:27; Ps. 90:1-2
NT ‒ Rom. 16:26; Rev. 10:6; 15:7
Jesus as eternal ‒ Heb. 13:8; Rev. 1:18; 11:15
the Spirit as eternal ‒ Heb. 9:14
New Age, resurected, eternal life
Gospels
Matt. 19:16,29; 25:46
Mark 10:17,30
Luke 10:25; 18:18,30
John 3:15,16,36; 4:14,36; 5:24,39; 6:27,40,47,54,68; 10:28; 12:25,50; 17:2,3
Acts ‒ 13:46,48
Paul ‒ Rom. 2:7; 5:21; 6:22,23; Gal. 6:8; 1 Tim. 1:16; 6:12; Titus 1:2; 3:7
1 John 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11,13,20
Jude v. 21
salvation ‒ Heb. 5:9
redemption ‒ Heb. 9:15
believers' inheritance ‒ Heb. 9:15
God's covenant ‒ Heb. 13:20
eternal judgment ‒ see Special Topic below
For more information on the concept of "everlasting" or "forever" see:

SPECIAL TOPIC: ETERNAL PUNISHMENT

SPECIAL TOPIC: FOREVER ('olam)
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Where did Christian Universalism come from? - New or old?​


Christian Universalism/Apokatastasis has roots in the early church in the east.
It was a leading theology in the east (Greek-speaking church) and was supported by many of
the Patristic Church Fathers, as I understand it.

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem, Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha, Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is this news to you? What's your view?
Interesting that Christian Universalism is marginalized today.

There are three biblical views of the final judgment:
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Christian Universalism (UR)

All three views are in conflict with each other.
A forever burning hell is in conflict with complete annihilation.
And both are in conflict with ultimate restoration. (UR)

In my view Christian Universalism is the best match for the character of God.
A loving God doesn't toss his kids in a furnace and then blame it on them. IMHO
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
10,874
7,252
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
A loving God doesn't toss his kids in a furnace and then blame it on them. IMHO
So who should He blame then?
What is He blaming them for?
Who do you think should be accountable?
If you reject the only means by which man can be saved, and the only name through which you can be saved, then what saves you?
 
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who do you think should be accountable?
Good questions, thanks.
Everyone should be accountable.
If you reject the only means by which man can be saved, and the only name through which you can be saved, then what saves you?
I do not reject that at all.
Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone.
 
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
24,401
9,214
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Gender
Male
"Universalism" is not : "Christian".

So dont be decevived by Liars that try to connect a False and Satanic Gospel to Real Chrisitanity.

"universalism" was created by a carnal heretic, a religious carnal heretic.
And this is always the case with any cult teaching..
They are always created by Heretics, who are led of a Demon who gave them the information.

Religious idiots will tell you.....>"well, universalism was created by a "church father"........so, right here, in comes the deception, as a lot of so called "church fathers' were water baptized religious nuts, who quite possibly were not even saved.

'Oh but the Catholic Cult recognizes them as "Church Fathers".

A.) YAWN.

So, This is Calvinism, or Mormonism, or any other "ISM"., that pretends to be "christian", regarding its doctrine, including but not limited to "Universalism".

Reader... any false Gospel, (Galatians 1:8).... or any cuit teaching is always a man-made project, that is spawned by the demonic that deceives people who then join the cult and believe the cult teachings.
You can open a KJV and read all about it in Heb 13:9, .......as these are "doctrines of devils" and people that teach these false gospels or doctrines are being used by the Devil.
They will try to talk about "Jesus" or "christianity" only to attempt to fool you, because they understand that they can HIDE their DECEPTION by talking about JESUS or something related to Christianity that will cause you to not realize their true motive, which is to deceive you.
Be not deceived.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: The Learner

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Universalism" is not : "Christian".
"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

Apokatastasis in the Bible


Apokatastasis in the early church

 
  • Like
Reactions: The Learner

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Religious idiots will tell you.....>"well, universalism was created by a "church father"........so, right here, in comes the deception, as a lot of so called "church fathers' were water baptized religious nuts, who quite possibly were not even saved.
LOL

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.
 

Wick Stick

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2023
2,424
1,486
113
46
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A forever burning hell is in conflict with complete annihilation.
Is it, though?

A forever-burning-hell shouldn't imply that the fire's fuel isn't consumed. Nothing in nature suggests that would be the case. That isn't how fire works. It's actually quite strange that the church has come to view it this way.

Rather, a forever-burning-hell should imply that the source of the fuel is unending. And, well... we don't seem to have any shortage of bad people this week.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Learner

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
St. SteVen said:
A forever burning hell is in conflict with complete annihilation.
Is it, though?

A forever-burning-hell shouldn't imply that the fire's fuel isn't consumed. Nothing in nature suggests that would be the case. That isn't how fire works. It's actually quite strange that the church has come to view it this way.

Rather, a forever-burning-hell should imply that the source of the fuel is unending. And, well... we don't seem to have any shortage of bad people this week.
Something to that, however...
The forever burning hell doctrine assumes the inhabitants burn forever, whereas annihilation assumes complete destruction.
Therefore two doctrines in conflict.
 
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner

Wick Stick

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2023
2,424
1,486
113
46
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
St. SteVen said:
A forever burning hell is in conflict with complete annihilation.

Something to that, however...
The forever burning hell doctrine assumes the inhabitants burn forever, whereas annihilation assumes complete destruction.
Therefore two doctrines in conflict.
I believe in Annihilation, and in a forever-burning hell.

I reckon the people are completely destroyed by the fire. I also reckon that the line to that crematorium is unending.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Learner

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe in Annihilation, and in a forever-burning hell.

I reckon the people are completely destroyed by the fire. I also reckon that the line to that crematorium is unending.
Like Auschwitz?

--- Parody ---

Demon: Welcome to hell.
Resident: What a horrible place.
Demon: Thank you. We do our best.
Resident: Where are you taking me?
Demon: That depends.
Resident: Depends on what?
Demon: Would you prefer smoking, or nonsmoking?
Resident: Are you serious?
Demon: No. You need to get a sense of humor.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: The Learner

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
22,505
3,785
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Religious idiots will tell you.....>"well, universalism was created by a "church father"........so, right here, in comes the deception, as a lot of so called "church fathers' were water baptized religious nuts, who quite possibly were not even saved.
'Oh but the Catholic Cult recognizes them as "Church Fathers".

A.) YAWN.
I can always count on you to make idiotic statements like this . . .

Origen was a Church Father who eventually went into heresy with his Universalist views.
The Catholic Church condemned this heresy LONG before your Protestant Fathers even existed.

Do your homework . . .