Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, you are a wordsmith. To come to your interpretation you have to rearrange the words of (John 10:26). As you did with my words before. See post #414.

Ah, I see. You want to label me a Calvinist so you can use all your arguments against Calvinism. Sorry. I will defend the Scriptures but not Calvinism. Must be sad to not be able to look at Scripture on your own.

Stranger

And when you lose a debate - you accuse your opponent of "wordsmithing."
I have destroyed your position with passage after passage after passage - and all YOU have done is repeat the SAME verse because you don't understand context.

Pathetic . . .

 

[Stranger]

And when you lose a debate - you accuse your opponent of "wordsmithing."
I have destroyed your position with passage after passage after passage - and all YOU have done is repeat the SAME verse because you don't understand context.

Pathetic . . .

No, I accuse you of being the wordsmith because you manipulate the Scriptures as you did my comments. See again #414.

Yeah, yeah. I repeat the same verse back to you because it stands by itself against you. "Ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep". (John 10:26)

You want to put me in some calvinistic camp because you feel comfortable arguing against the calvinist. But now you must deal with just Scripture. And Scripture is against you.

Stranger

 

[Job]

No, I accuse you of being the wordsmith because you manipulate the Scriptures as you did my comments. See again #414.

Yeah, yeah. I repeat the same verse back to you because it stands by itself against you. "Ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep". (John 10:26)

You want to put me in some calvinistic camp because you feel comfortable arguing against the calvinist. But now you must deal with just Scripture. And Scripture is against you.

Stranger

Good post.

m

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, I accuse you of being the wordsmith because you manipulate the Scriptures as you did my comments. See again #414.

Yeah, yeah. I repeat the same verse back to you because it stands by itself against you. "Ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep". (John 10:26)

You want to put me in some calvinistic camp because you feel comfortable arguing against the calvinist. But now you must deal with just Scripture. And Scripture is against you.

Stranger

You keep cherry-picking the SAME verse out of context to support your false doctrine.
Here is the verse in its proper CONTEXT:
John 10:24-27
The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

This shows unequivocally, that we ARE His Sheep because we believe - and we believe because we are His Sheep.
You have been Scripturally-spanked - in context . . .

 

[Stranger]

You keep cherry-picking the SAME verse out of context to support your false doctrine.
Here is the verse in its proper CONTEXT:
John 10:24-27
The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

This shows unequivocally, that we ARE His Sheep because we believe - and we believe because we are His Sheep.
You have been Scripturally-spanked - in context . . .

Context says "ye believe not because ye are not my sheep" (26) Which means those who are His sheep believe. Those who are not His sheep will not believe. Verse (27) just builds on that saying "My sheep hear my voice". They are already His sheep.

Yes, 'context' and 'cherry-picking' are favorite words of yours. They sound so authoritative. But, you, as the wordsmith you are, just use them to distort and twist the Scriptures. As you do others writings. See #414.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Context says "ye believe not because ye are not my sheep" (26) Which means those who are His sheep believe. Those who are not His sheep will not believe. Verse (27) just builds on that saying "My sheep hear my voice". They are already His sheep.

Yes, 'context' and 'cherry-picking' are favorite words of yours. They sound so authoritative. But, you, as the wordsmith you are, just use them to distort and twist the Scriptures. As you do others writings. See #414.

Stranger

Only to a blind and spiritually prideful person.

No - the context of John 10:24-27 is that we ARE His Sheep because we believe - and we believe because we are His Sheep.
His Sheep hear His voice BECAUSE they believe - not because they were His Sheep PRIOR to coming to Him in Faith.

You've got a LOT to learn about grace.
Grace is a gift that must be accepted or refused. God id not a Cosmic Rapist who forces His love on us - as YOU and your Calvinist friends would have us believe.
Rather - He gives us a free will to either accept His gift or to refuse it.

The God you've invented for yourself is a monster - unlike the God of the Bible . . .

 

[Stranger]

Only to a blind and spiritually prideful person.

No - the context of John 10:24-27 is that we ARE His Sheep because we believe - and we believe because we are His Sheep.
His Sheep hear His voice BECAUSE they believe - not because they were His Sheep PRIOR to coming to Him in Faith.

You've got a LOT to learn about grace.
Grace is a gift that must be accepted or refused. God id not a Cosmic Rapist who forces His love on us - as YOU and your Calvinist friends would have us believe.
Rather - He gives us a free will to either accept His gift or to refuse it.

The God you've invented for yourself is a monster - unlike the God of the Bible . . .

(John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep"

(John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me"

One doesn't believe unless he is a sheep. And if he is a sheep he will hear the voice of Christ.

I haven't invented God. I have just given you the Scripture to believe. You can't believe them because they go against your Romanist doctrines. Shame you cant study the Bible on your own.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

(John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep"

(John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me"

One doesn't believe unless he is a sheep. And if he is a sheep he will hear the voice of Christ.

I haven't invented God. I have just given you the Scripture to believe. You can't believe them because they go against your Romanist doctrines. Shame you cant study the Bible on your own.

Stranger

And one cannot be one of His sheep unless He believes.

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe. THIS is when we become His Sheep.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb. 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace. This includes HEARING Him

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

That's how salvation works.

 

[ScottA]

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe. THIS is when we become His Sheep.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb. 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace. This includes HEARING Him

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

That's how salvation works.

That is not a proper or even good representation of the salvation process.

You have a way of not representing the whole truth of scripture. You cannot say all that and contradict the dozens of other scriptures that say that "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." That the "process" is no process at all, but rather what should be understood as a "transformation", even a "transference." That the "old man was crucified with Christ" and is dead, and that it is "no longer" we "who now live, but Christ."

Your position comes from not fully understanding what it means that "Christ has come in the flesh."

The "good news" for those looking on, is that every word is true, not just some...and that the promise of Christ, is that when you call on Him, He comes "quickly"...and that it is not a process, as some would have you believe.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is not a proper or even good representation of the salvation process.

You have a way of not representing the whole truth of scripture. You cannot say all that and contradict the dozens of other scriptures that say that "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." That the "process" is no process at all, but rather what should be understood as a "transformation", even a "transference." That the "old man was crucified with Christ" and is dead, and that it is "no longer" we "who now live, but Christ."

Your position comes from not fully understanding what it means that "Christ has come in the flesh."

The "good news" for those looking on, is that every word is true, not just some...and that the promise of Christ, is that when you call on Him, He comes "quickly"...and that it is not a process, as some would have you believe.

The "process" comes from the fact that we are still sinners in need of God's mercy.
If you don't believe that - then your beliefs are something OTHER than Christian . . .

 

[Stranger]

And one cannot be one of His sheep unless He believes.

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe. THIS is when we become His Sheep.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb. 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace. This includes HEARING Him

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

That's how salvation works.

(John 10:26) "But ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep"

(John 10:27) "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

Those that are of God, who are His sheep, will believe and follow. Scriptures are clear.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

The "process" comes from the fact that we are still sinners in need of God's mercy.
If you don't believe that - then your beliefs are something OTHER than Christian . . .

No...It is just the opposite of that...as I have shown you in the scripture. But apparently you do not love the truth.

 

[pia]

No...It is just the opposite of that...as I have shown you in the scripture. But apparently you do not love the truth.

Hello Scott... I think you nailed it on the head here. Many it seems have tried to gently lead this person into the arms and rest of Jesus but he or she refuses to come to Him and wants to do it in their own strength. Nothing much can be done, personally I would just leave it with Jesus, as it became apparent fairly early in the piece where this person was coming from. No wonder the world looks at Christians and say :" No thank you !", as they mostly don't do what Jesus said to do, to share His love with them, that they may believe that "God so loved us ( the world ) that he sent His only begotten Son..........." I really like your posts :)

 

[BreadOfLife]

No...It is just the opposite of that...as I have shown you in the scripture. But apparently you do not love the truth.

So, you are claiming that you never sin?
Is that what you're actually saying??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hello Scott... I think you nailed it on the head here. Many it seems have tried to gently lead this person into the arms and rest of Jesus but he or she refuses to come to Him and wants to do it in their own strength. Nothing much can be done, personally I would just leave it with Jesus, as it became apparent fairly early in the piece where this person was coming from. No wonder the world looks at Christians and say :" No thank you !", as they mostly don't do what Jesus said to do, to share His love with them, that they may believe that "God so loved us ( the world ) that he sent His only begotten Son..........." I really like your posts

Share your love all you want - by all means.
Just leave the anti-Catholic lies at the door . . .

 

[ScottA]

So, you are claiming that you never sin?
Is that what you're actually saying??

Not exactly. What I am saying - if I use myself as an example, is that I sinned my last some moments before Christ saved me, made me a new creation...that that old man is dead, and I live with and in Christ and Him in me, who can do no sin, for He to died to sin on a cross.

But if you witness saved people sin, who are not living in the world, but Christ in them...you are not seeing what you think. You are not seeing that person who was - they have died. No, you are seeing Christ carrying around their corpse who has been sentenced once to die, but is of the world until then...until the end.

 

[pia]

Not exactly. What I am saying - if I use myself as an example, is that I sinned my last some moments before Christ saved me, made me a new creation...that that old man is dead, and I live with and in Christ and Him in me, who can do no sin, for He to died to sin on a cross.

But if you witness saved people sin, who are not living in the world, but Christ in them...you are not seeing what you think. You are not seeing that person who was - they have died. No, you are seeing Christ carrying around their corpse who has been sentenced once to die, but is of the world until then...until the end.

I honestly am not trying to be rude, but I suspect your post will go way over the persons head, as they cannot arrive In Christ without the revelation of Who He is, and subsequently, who we are In Him . They cannot see or in some cases will not see. To the seed of Adam came the law..... To the seed of Christ, the law was nailed with Him on the cross, and we are no longer under law, but under grace.....Grace is HIGHER than the law, it is NOT a one off thing but the power of God to save us, Jesus fulfilled ALL the requirements of the law, and then God said :" Come sit at my right hand.".....Imagine that, a son of man, a seed of Adam sitting on the throne next to God. Just a marvelous work, which God said He was going to do, straight after the fall of man..........Fulfilled in Christ ! I suggest people like BOL seek and find that rest in Him that indescribable love, joy and peace which can ONLY be found In Him, and if in Him, we are no longer of the world, even if our little 'earthsuits' have a little ways to go yet. Thank you Scott A.....I am getting very encouraged by a lot of your posts..... Way to go ! :)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not exactly. What I am saying - if I use myself as an example, is that I sinned my last some moments before Christ saved me, made me a new creation...that that old man is dead, and I live with and in Christ and Him in me, who can do no sin, for He to died to sin on a cross.

But if you witness saved people sin, who are not living in the world, but Christ in them...you are not seeing what you think. You are not seeing that person who was - they have died. No, you are seeing Christ carrying around their corpse who has been sentenced once to die, but is of the world until then...until the end.

Sooooo, you sin but you don't really sin - is that it?
Either you're a sinner or you're not - and every human being who draws breath is a sinner.

The difference between a sinner who is in Christ and one who isn't is that those in Christ repent when they sin and are forgiven.
But, make no mistake - you're still a sinner.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I suggest people like BOL seek and find that rest in Him that indescribable love, joy and peace which can ONLY be found In Him, and if in Him, we are no longer of the world, even if our little 'earthsuits' have a little ways to go yet.

Not only did I find refuge in Him - I belong to His Body, His Church (1 Cor. 12, Col. 1:18).
His Body has MANY parts - but we are ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:21-23).

I pray that you abandon your "Lone Ranger-ism" and join His Body as He wills (John 17:21-23).

 

[pia]

Not only did I find refuge in Him - I belong to His Body, His Church (1 Cor. 12, Col. 1:18).
His Body has MANY parts - but we are ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:21-23).

I pray that you abandon your "Lone Ranger-ism" and join His Body as He wills (John 17:21-23).

He, joined me to Himself, long before I knew anything of 'churches' or bibles. But let me just get you straight, I have tried to stay out of your way here. You would have me reject and throw out EVERY word He answered me to my questions the first night I met Him? One of which was :" Do I have to go to church now that you have come to me ?" He replied :" You are the church, people are the church, and if you are going to compare it to a building, then you are a brick in My church, along with those who believe." And yes ! I kid you not, He did say MY CHURCH. So who are you, to try to usurp Him in my life, to be taken over by a religious institution built on a foundation of paganism, murder, rape, torture, the selling of a place into heaven, taking from the poor, and on and on. NO THANK YOU.... I prefer the foundation He has given me. Now please can you just let me be. I did ask nicely before. All the best to you.