Calling all Law Keepers.

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ScottA

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why would one want Christ in them? what would be the point? unless there is a practical application its just words.

Matthew 23:3
so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
Because Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life...meaning, that if we do not want our time of physical life in the world to be a waste of time, but rather lead us to life everlasting in God, then we should be seeking this Way, whom is Christ. He is the "only begotten" of the eternal kingdom of God. Unless we join with Him, Life is not in us, which means at the end of physical death, we parish.

But, why have you included the above passage from Matthew?
 

KBCid

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Revelation can only come from the Holy Spirit, so yes, I did need to be told; otherwise, I would still be in bondage to the law, seeking after my own righteousness. Who opens eyes, who heals the blind? It was a huge part of Jesus' ministry.

so you would have been still trying to sacrifice animals to cover your sins?
 

KBCid

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Grace is the teacher, Grace is a person and His name is Jesus.
Titus 2:11, For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Christ is not grace... as it is written Christ is full of Grace;
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 

KBCid

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No maybes about it, God wants you to know how much He loves you and He showed it by the Cross. Can you truly love God without knowing how much He loves you?

God has always loved man since they created them of that there has never been a question. The question do you try to love them as much as they love you?
 
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KBCid

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Be righteous, in Christ. You are the righteousness of God in Christ. Jesus didn't fail and neither will you. To be righteous by what you do and not fail at it, is self-righteousness.

And yet it was the spirit that inspired the saying;
Romans 1:17For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

So if any attempt to be righteous is as you think "self-righteousness" then all the words given from OT to NT were given by self-righteous people apparently inspired by a self-righteous spirit;

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
1 Timothy 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
1 Peter 2:24“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”
Psalm 119:1 Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord.
Romans 6:13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
Habakkuk 2:4
“See, the enemy is puffed up; his desires are not upright— but the righteous person will live by his faithfulness.”
Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Yea apparently there is a whole lot of self-righteousness being taught in God's word... I wonder why they would do that if it is so wrong to try and be righteous? poor Job the self-righteous man too bad he won't get anywhere with that attitude.
 

Truth

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why would one want Christ in them? what would be the point? unless there is a practical application its just words.

Matthew 23:3
so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

Yes this is some what of a contradiction, They sit in Moses seat,[ by the way they have uncovered some of these Moses seats] claiming to have the Authority of Moses, they claim to teach Moses, but they teach their own false religion, that's why our Savior said do not do as they do, they say they do but they don't!
 

tabletalk

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Luke 7:47, Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

What does Jesus mean by this? How did the woman of ill-repute show her love? How did Simon, show his?

Luke 7:41-43,

“Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”

Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”

“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

Scriptures show if you don't know how forgiven you are, you will not have much love to show God.


You said in post 277: "Can you truly feel forgiven without knowing how forgiven you are?"

First, I don't believe anyone can know the extent of "how forgiven you are". I would have to have all knowledge of all my sins, past present and future. I have only limited knowledge of my sinfulness. Therefore, I have limited knowledge of "how forgiven" I am.
Second, "who has been forgiven little, loves little" is entirely up to God. Should I sin that grace may abound? Should I sin excessively so that I can be forgiven more, and then I would love God more? Heaven forbid.
By faith, I believe I am forgiven. I don't need to "feel forgiven" as you have stated.
 

KBCid

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Why did Jesus tell people to “go and sin no more” if sinlessness is impossible?

John 5:14 Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.
John 8:11 Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

If sinlessness is in fact not possible as some here would like to portray then Christ has commanded these people to a path unworkable. Is this what love does? Does love give an impossible task or is Christ showing us all that we can make choices on our own that puts us in line with his message?

1 John 3:6 So no one who remains united with him continues sinning; everyone who does continue sinning has neither seen him nor known him. 7 Children, don’t let anyone deceive you — it is the person that keeps on doing what is right who is righteous, just as God is righteous. 8 The person who keeps on sinning is from the Adversary, because from the very beginning the Adversary has kept on sinning. It was for this very reason that the Son of God appeared, to destroy these doings of the Adversary. 9 No one who has God as his Father keeps on sinning, because the seed planted by God remains in him. That is, he cannot continue sinning, because he has God as his Father. 10 Here is how one can distinguish clearly between God’s children and those of the Adversary: everyone who does not continue doing what is right is not from God. Likewise, anyone who fails to keep loving his brother is not from God.
 
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jaybird

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Yes this is some what of a contradiction, They sit in Moses seat,[ by the way they have uncovered some of these Moses seats] claiming to have the Authority of Moses, they claim to teach Moses, but they teach their own false religion, that's why our Savior said do not do as they do, they say they do but they don't!
i agree, IMO its still going on today, lots of talk and no actions. the first Christians didnt call themselves Christians they called themselves doers of the law.
 

Richard_oti

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LOL
It was the post that I liked, and I'll tell you why.

Whew!! I thought I was gonna need to do some more repentance.


This is the post from @KBCid:

And what does it really mean to repent?
Is it ok to say i'm sorry for trespassing the moral laws Lord but I can't help doing it... So, will you forgive me anyway and I'll just keep on doing the same thing I know is wrong.
Yes I know you know.

Of course to repent means to feel sorry for, to ask forgiveness and to go the other way, literally. To turn around.

Now... in reality one can only REPENT one time when they turn to God.
They were walking toward the enemy, they decide to turn around and walk toward God and serve God. This is true repentance.

However, we come to use that word to mean "feel sorry for".
So we have to accept that.
By what KBCid is saying it would seem that one is asking forgiveness while knowing that they will just keep sinning.

Does God forgive this?
Interesting question.
If the sinning is intentional and with no remorse, I'd say the sin cannot be forgiven.

But if there is remorse, I believe it is forgiven. Even though it might be repeated, or even though it is difficult to stop it. For instance, drugs.
Someone may be taking drugs and not care and someone may be taking drugs and truly wish to stop and the sorrow is there.

I do see a difference in these two scenarios. God, being a just God, will take this into consideration, I believe.

Let's just remember that He knows the truth.
Thoughts?

Nothing to add by me. I have to concur.
 

Armadillo

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And yet it was the spirit that inspired the saying;
Romans 1:17For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

So if any attempt to be righteous is as you think "self-righteousness" then all the words given from OT to NT were given by self-righteous people apparently inspired by a self-righteous spirit;

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
1 Timothy 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.
Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
1 Peter 2:24“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”
Psalm 119:1 Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord.
Romans 6:13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
Habakkuk 2:4
“See, the enemy is puffed up; his desires are not upright— but the righteous person will live by his faithfulness.”
Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Yea apparently there is a whole lot of self-righteousness being taught in God's word... I wonder why they would do that if it is so wrong to try and be righteous? poor Job the self-righteous man too bad he won't get anywhere with that attitude.

Self-righteous works don't bring righteousness because if they did there would have been no point of Jesus dying on the Cross.

Galatians 2:21, I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Reading Romans 3 may help you understand.
 

Armadillo

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so you would have been still trying to sacrifice animals to cover your sins?

The modern version of this is putting Jesus back on the Cross while you confess your sins and beg for His forgiveness, sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, sometimes minute by minute.

Hebrews 6:6, and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
 
B

Butterfly

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I hope you do not mind me jumping into this thread but I was reading something this morning that kind of sums up something I have felt while reading all the comments. Just so that you know, I believe the commandments are relevant to me as a Christian, but do not and have not brought about my salvation or continue to do so. I am saved by grace. However I live in a country that, like many, have moral laws on how I should treat others, and they are often based on the very commandments, and guidelines that God set his people through Moses. How I live is relevant.
This quote is from ' what's so amazing about grace ' .......

.... ' There is perhaps no one of natural passions so hard to subdue as pride. Disguise it. Struggle with it. Stifle it. Mortify it as much as one pleases. It is still alive, and will every now and then peep out and show itself. Even if I could conceive that I had completely overcome it, I should probably be proud of my humility ' ...........

For me, no matter what my actions are, there are still things within me that could consist of pride. Pride is a sin , on that basis alone I could not stand before God and say ' I am perfect because I have kept all the Ten Commandments '
Doing right should be a natural response to my faith and salvation because I am born again - i have a new approach - hence why I believe faith and works should go hand in hand, but not as a means of salvation, but as a means of the changes salvation so brings from within me. As I grow as a Christian, a new creation, then outwardly there should be evidence.
I realise this may have been said before .......
For me the law changed, look at all the rules and regulations that the Pharisees had introduced by the time we reach New Testament times- the Ten Commandments were only the beginning of guidelines - even God went on to give Moses instructions on how to put things right, because he knew his people could not keep them .......... as far as I am concerned the Ten Commandments were about how we should live within society and be different, how we stood before God was linked to the sacrifices and blood that enabled them to stand before God - and Jesus did that part for me through the cross. The law doesn't save, it evaluates !
Just my opinions !! Xx
Butterfly
 

GodsGrace

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Maybe just maybe God wants his image to love them from their own individual hearts and souls by their own volition;
John 4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Edit; I have been prompted to add a point to the above post.
There is significance in the word "truth" used in the quoted scripture.
How does one worship in truth?
I can expound on this now but, I would like to here your response.
I read John 4:24 in 3 different bibles.
First of all we have to worship God in spirit because it's our spirit that worships His spirit. I think I've said before that spirit draws spirit.
We must also worship Him in truth.
In verse 23 Jesus is saying that God will no longer be worshipped in Jerusalem but we will take that worship with us wherever we go. I like to say that we take God with us wherever we go. He's everywhere and He's everywhere we go.
So in truth must mean as we are, in our truth, true to ourselves.
We must be true to what we believe and this way we're true to God.

??
 

GodsGrace

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In order to fully understand what is finished, we must come to realize that time was created, and otherwise does not exist with God or in the kingdom. Also, that time and the world were created for a finite purpose that was passing away even at the time of Christ. Therefore, when Christ said, "It is finished", he spoke of all creation: "This generation shall not all die till all these things come to pass", meaning [that] generation.

But He spoke both of the world and all time, as well as the timeless realm of God. Which is to say, He told of God's reality, as well as what we perceive to be reality, which is not, but was contrived. Understand the meaning of "make believe", and know that this is the purpose of God for the whole world. By definition, this is the meaning of "created", and to "make manifest."

So, then, what we are seeing of life in the world during these times, is simply the unfolding of all that is written that has yet to be told...but is finished, nonetheless. Meaning, that all who are saved or will be saved, are saved already, and this is just the telling of it. Therefore, John wrote: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still”, that the perfect will of God should be according to what is already finished in Christ.
Hi,
Your explanation of what is finished sounds a little jumbled.
I really, at the end of it, don't know what you mean.

When Jesus said "It Is Finished" He meant that HIS work, that He was sent to do here on earth, was finished. There was nothing left for God to do for us --- It was completed. What God planned from the beginning of time, was done -- our sin debt was paid. Jesus freed us from our subjection to the enemy.

That's the easy explanation. But why would you believe me??
Here's a link from GotQuestions? that is very clear:

Question: "What did Jesus mean when He said, 'It is finished'?"

Answer:
Of the last sayings of Christ on the cross, none is more important or more poignant than, “It is finished.” Found only in the Gospel of John, the Greek word translated “it is finished” is tetelestai, an accounting term that means “paid in full.” When Jesus uttered those words, He was declaring the debt owed to His Father was wiped away completely and forever. Not that Jesus wiped away any debt that He owed to the Father; rather, Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankind—the debt of sin.

Just prior to His arrest by the Romans, Jesus prayed His last public prayer, asking the Father to glorify Him, just as Jesus had glorified the Father on earth, having “finished the work you have given me to do” (John 17:4). The work Jesus was sent to do was to “seek and save that which is lost” (Luke 19:10), to provide atonement for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him (Romans 3:23-25), and to reconcile sinful men to a holy God. “All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation” (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). None other but God in the flesh could accomplish such a task.

Also completed was the fulfillment of all Old Testament prophecies, symbols, and foreshadowings of the coming Messiah. From Genesis to Malachi, there are over 300 specific prophecies detailing the coming of the Anointed One, all fulfilled by Jesus. From the “seed” who would crush the serpent’s head (Genesis 3:15), to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, to the prediction of the “messenger” of the Lord (John the Baptist) who would “prepare the way” for the Messiah, all prophecies of Jesus’ life, ministry, and death were fulfilled and finished at the cross.

Although the redemption of mankind is the most important finished task, many other things were finished at the cross. The sufferings Jesus endured while on the earth, and especially in His last hours, were at last over. God’s will for Jesus was accomplished in His perfect obedience to the Father (John 5:30; 6:38). Most importantly, the power of sin and Satan was finished. No longer would mankind have to suffer the “flaming arrows of the evil one” (Ephesians 6:16). By raising the “shield of faith” in the One who completed the work of redemption and salvation, we can, by faith, live as new creations in Christ. Jesus’ finished work on the cross was the beginning of new life for all who were once “dead in trespasses and sins” but who are now made “alive with Christ” (Ephesians 2:1, 5).
 

GodsGrace

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I hope you do not mind me jumping into this thread but I was reading something this morning that kind of sums up something I have felt while reading all the comments. Just so that you know, I believe the commandments are relevant to me as a Christian, but do not and have not brought about my salvation or continue to do so. I am saved by grace. However I live in a country that, like many, have moral laws on how I should treat others, and they are often based on the very commandments, and guidelines that God set his people through Moses. How I live is relevant.
This quote is from ' what's so amazing about grace ' .......

.... ' There is perhaps no one of natural passions so hard to subdue as pride. Disguise it. Struggle with it. Stifle it. Mortify it as much as one pleases. It is still alive, and will every now and then peep out and show itself. Even if I could conceive that I had completely overcome it, I should probably be proud of my humility ' ...........

For me, no matter what my actions are, there are still things within me that could consist of pride. Pride is a sin , on that basis alone I could not stand before God and say ' I am perfect because I have kept all the Ten Commandments '
Doing right should be a natural response to my faith and salvation because I am born again - i have a new approach - hence why I believe faith and works should go hand in hand, but not as a means of salvation, but as a means of the changes salvation so brings from within me. As I grow as a Christian, a new creation, then outwardly there should be evidence.
I realise this may have been said before .......
For me the law changed, look at all the rules and regulations that the Pharisees had introduced by the time we reach New Testament times- the Ten Commandments were only the beginning of guidelines - even God went on to give Moses instructions on how to put things right, because he knew his people could not keep them .......... as far as I am concerned the Ten Commandments were about how we should live within society and be different, how we stood before God was linked to the sacrifices and blood that enabled them to stand before God - and Jesus did that part for me through the cross. The law doesn't save, it evaluates !
Just my opinions !! Xx
Butterfly
Hi Butterfly,
Welcome to the forum and please jump in!

Your post is very good, very well said.
I highlighted three sentences above. This is a really good way of saying that we must believe and we must follow Jesus and do what He told us to do.
Our works do not save us,,,but they are a sign of our salvation.
If there are NO works, can we say we are truly saved?
James said that faith without works is a dead faith.
Faith is alive and working..the internal change is seen externally.
James 2:14,17
 
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KBCid

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Revelation can only come from the Holy Spirit, so yes, I did need to be told; otherwise, I would still be in bondage to the law, seeking after my own righteousness. Who opens eyes, who heals the blind? It was a huge part of Jesus' ministry.

KBCid replied : "so you would have been still trying to sacrifice animals to cover your sins?"

The modern version of this is putting Jesus back on the Cross while you confess your sins and beg for His forgiveness, sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, sometimes minute by minute.

I asked you a direct question "so you would have been still trying to sacrifice animals to cover your sins"? How does your reply answer that question?

You asserted that YOU were "in bondage to the law". Are you a Jew that has time jumped from the time of Christ? If YOU were not from that time and YOU are not a Jew then YOU were never under the law nor did YOU ever sacrifice one animal to cover your sins. So it is impossible for YOU to have ever been "seeking after my own righteousness" by the law.

The sacrificial laws were used by the Jews to justify their righteousness before God. Christ was sent to the Jews to tell them truths that the Jews did not understand AND he was also prophesied to expand the meaning of law. So Christ informed the Jews that their concept of trading acts of the law (sacrificing of animals) to cover their sins was not in fact actually covering them. Christ is the foretold sacrifice that would cover their sins but you have to be a doer of the expanded law from the heart. You could not gain the kingdom by simply following a set of rules that you did not do from the heart and soul.
 
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