OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION

[Helen]

Agree @amadeus

 

[bbyrd009]

you misinterpret and warp and twist what has been stated - I do not commend myself as inspired etc but I commend the Church - twinc

i volunteer for them, so i guess that is a commendation of a sort. Funny to me that we cannot even agree on a definition of Church but we attempt to debate the matters concerning It anyway

 

[amadeus]

i volunteer for them, so i guess that is a commendation of a sort. Funny to me that we cannot even agree on a definition of Church but we attempt to debate the matters concerning It anyway

So then perhaps our problem is still the result of the confusion of languages at Babel. Communication or the lack thereof?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am getting a bit confused here.

If I said to my grandchild- "You are lying to me" am I not in fact calling him a liar?

No.

If I said to my friend, "You need to use deodorant because you smell."
That doesn't mean that I called him a "stinking rat". I made an observation - I didn't call him a name.

BIG difference.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you are effectively saying that I lied. I did not. The official church position is one thing while the facts are often something else.

Sorry, Amadeus - those are the facts.
YOUR experience is subjective. It's NOT the whole story.

In your lifetime - the Bible was NEVER something that the Church "discouraged."
To say that it was is simply your excuse for leaving the Church.

 

[bbyrd009]

So then perhaps our problem is still the result of the confusion of languages at Babel. Communication or the lack thereof?

yes, it has to do with Logical though v dialectical thought i guess, but i haven't entirely made the connection yet myself. Of course we base a lot of our comedy on logical misinterpretations of a spoken phrase; and these make no sense to an Oriental, i notice. They do not laugh, generally speaking, bc they do not get it, i guess? Researching this now. But i notice that their comedy is not funny to me either!

 

[bbyrd009]

"FACT 1: Until the present generation, the Roman Catholic Church forbade her people to read the Bible for themselves under pain of 'mortal sin.' That is, the ..."

the bible was never something that the roman catholic church "discouraged." - Google Search

 

[amadeus]

"FACT 1: Until the present generation, the Roman Catholic Church forbade her people to read the Bible for themselves under pain of 'mortal sin.' That is, the ..."

the bible was never something that the roman catholic church "discouraged." - Google Search

Below is a quotation taken directly from the Catholic Answers forum as per the link @bbyrd009 supplied. What is says is all that I said. Bible reading was discouraged where I was. Who was I as a young boy to say that my priests and nuns were in error? What should I have done, write to the Pope for clarification? I had no reason to believe that the priests and nun were not standing on and teaching by the same rules as the Pope. I was a child. When I became a man I did raise questions, but by that time the Catholic Church was no longer a place I would go for answers...

"It is true that earlier in this century, in some Catholic circles, people were not encouraged to read their Bibles. This discouragement was a mistake. The Church does not claim that these types of mistakes have not been made. Catholics believe that although the teaching of the Church is "infallible" on matters of doctrine, the Church is not "indefectible." Sometimes God chooses people who fall. He has done that since the beginning of the Church. (i.e., Judas).

"It was never forbidden to read the Bible. But some priests were worried that congregations would come up with dozens of conflicting interpretations of Scripture. These priests knew of over 300 Protestant denominations who had distinct beliefs about the interpretation of Scripture. Many of these interpretations conflicted with each other yet every one of them claimed divine inspiration. As a whole, neither Catholics or Evangelicals are into relativism (which says there are many truths). So we have to conclude that the vast majority of conflicting Evangelical biblical interpretations are incorrect since only one can be true. (Perhaps this is a powerful argument against Sola Scriptura - Bible alone.) Some priests saw this divisional process in Protestant circles and felt it was a danger."

Sorry, Amadeus - those are the facts.
YOUR experience is subjective. It's NOT the whole story.

In your lifetime - the Bible was NEVER something that the Church "discouraged."
To say that it was is simply your excuse for leaving the Church.

No, it was not my excuse.

I left to go to school. At that point, I effectively backslid, but that had nothing directly to do with not reading the Bible.

 

[mjrhealth]

If I said to my friend, "You need to use deodorant because you smell."
That doesn't mean that I called him a "stinking rat". I made an observation - I didn't call him a name

Something to do with they sound like a duck, if someone is lying, they must be a liar, even a 2 year old child can understand that, so I guess you exposing all your lies than isnt a problem to you...

Do have a lovely dya BOL, dont let your religion steal all your life from you...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Something to do with they sound like a duck, if someone is lying, they must be a liar, even a 2 year old child can understand that, so I guess you exposing all your lies than isnt a problem to you...

Do have a lovely dya BOL, dont let your religion steal all your life from you...

I'm not surprised that you couldn't even follow a simple analogy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Below is a quotation taken directly from the Catholic Answers forum as per the link @bbyrd009 supplied. What is says is all that I said. Bible reading was discouraged where I was. Who was I as a young boy to say that my priests and nuns were in error? What should I have done, write to the Pope for clarification? I had no reason to believe that the priests and nun were not standing on and teaching by the same rules as the Pope. I was a child. When I became a man I did raise questions, but by that time the Catholic Church was no longer a place I would go for answers...
"It is true that earlier in this century, IN SOME CATHOLIC CIRCLES, people were NOT ENCOURAGED to read their Bibles. This discouragement was a mistake. The Church does not claim that these types of mistakes have not been made. Catholics believe that although the teaching of the Church is "infallible" on matters of doctrine, the Church is not "indefectible." Sometimes God chooses people who fall. He has done that since the beginning of the Church. (i.e., Judas).

This is a FAR cry from being "discouraged" or "forbidden."

No, it was not my excuse.
I left to go to school. At that point, I effectively backslid, but that had nothing directly to do with not reading the Bible.

No - it had more to do with falling onto the false "easy-believism" of Protestantism.
This is what seduces MOST Catholics away from the Church.

Jesus NEVER said it would be "easy" for us. On the contrary - He always spoke about how difficult it would be for us:
Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23, Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22, John 14:15, 15:10, Matt. 7:21, James 1:22, Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not surprised that you couldn't even follow a simple analogy . . .

Well since you cannot tell the difference between " your lies' and :"you are a liar", makes you no better than me, does it... and now that we know why you are playing this game at the risk of getting yourself banned, when there is enough to get you banned as it is, but where would the fun be in that, if not for you, i would never know what a religious Zealot was, or what Saul was actually doing and why, you helped me understand. Thanks, would hate top see you go.

 

[aspen]

I just discovered something that will probably offend everyone - lol. I do not see Trinitarian Christians as separate. Yah, yah we had a ittle spat 500 or so years ago......i got over it. I disagree with Catholics all the time, and we all just chalk it up to our imperfect knowledge and move on to loving God and others as perfectly as our on going sanctification permits. No need to get our egos in a twist over it.

 

[Truth]

I haven't had time to read all in this thread, But I distinctly remember Our Savior saying that If You Call your Brother a FOOL< which would render Him an Idiot, you would be in danger of GAHENNA, and or Hell! Present your thoughts with respect, Not with disdain. Truth will always prevail!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well since you cannot tell the difference between " your lies' and :"you are a liar", makes you no better than me, does it... and now that we know why you are playing this game at the risk of getting yourself banned, when there is enough to get you banned as it is, but where would the fun be in that, if not for you, i would never know what a religious Zealot was, or what Saul was actually doing and why, you helped me understand. Thanks, would hate top see you go.

And, as I admonished you on another thread - if you can't address the fact that "Lie" is a verb. and "Liar" is a noun - I suggest you purchase a dictionary . . .

 

[aspen]

Truth,

Thanks for the warning...i’ll make sure to just call you foolish :)

 

[BreadOfLife]

I haven't had time to read all in this thread, But I distinctly remember Our Savior saying that If You Call your Brother a FOOL< which would render Him an Idiot, you would be in danger of GAHENNA, and or Hell! Present your thoughts with respect, Not with disdain. Truth will always prevail!

That's great - but I never called anybody here a "fool."

You see - God ALSO said:
"You shall NOT bear false witness against your neighbor" (Exod. 20:16),

 

[mjrhealth]

And, as I admonished you on another threa

Well since i dont know what that means, since I dont know how you can correct anyone if that is what you are saying. For you to correefct me you must have the truth and so far I have seeing none from you that is not taken completely out of context to glorify your church, and deminish His, that one perfect, spotless and without blemish. SO now that we have admonished you with the truth can we get back to Jesus, or is that to much to hope for from you..

 

[Truth]

That's great - but I never called anybody here a "fool."

You see - God ALSO said:
"You shall NOT bear false witness against your neighbor" (Exod. 20:16),

This was not in response to you, But truth333 Message 128 page 1

 

[amadeus]

This is a FAR cry from being "discouraged" or "forbidden."

No - it had more to do with falling onto the false "easy-believism" of Protestantism.
This is what seduces MOST Catholics away from the Church.

Jesus NEVER said it would be "easy" for us. On the contrary - He always spoke about how difficult it would be for us:
Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23, Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22, John 14:15, 15:10, Matt. 7:21, James 1:22, Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2

You never admit the negative even when you have read it for yourself. The article used the word "discouragement" and I highlighted it for you.

I am afraid you know not about what you speak. Your so-called "easy believism" had nothing to do with it. I remained a nominal Catholic for about 14 years, but actually was nothing but was actively and effectively nothing until I witnessed a family living for God like I had never seen any Catholic live for God. That statement holds true to this date.

I guess we should to give this a rest for a while.