OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION

[bbyrd009]

So then perhaps our problem is still the result of the confusion of languages at Babel. Communication or the lack thereof?

ha. my response here is that just like "The Fall" that no one can quote, this "problem" is really a blessing, or maybe a lesson would be a better way to put it; we seek to herd up and clique, and love our families, and God seeks Anarchists who rely on Him for their safety, and who love their enemies. Inbreeding goes along with Empire, i guess; that connection should be pretty clear. And all the "go without the camp" and "leave the world" is just so much "stay here for the present" to most ppl, because since that is what we don't want to do, that is what we seek to not do.

But of course you have to close your ears to truth to do that, so you buy up the dictionaries and turn talents into gifts, and Anarchy into Chaos, and go to church out of fear of hell, and get the law that you deserve, and even pay for there, the counterfeit. The end of that should be crystal clear, is clear, only Scripture likes to put it in such a way that we can choose to not hear/associate ourselves with it, if that is what we seek, so no dogs returning to their vomit around here, no sir, we're all OSASed, that ain't us.

 

[amadeus]

This is a FAR cry from being "discouraged" or "forbidden."

No - it had more to do with falling onto the false "easy-believism" of Protestantism.
This is what seduces MOST Catholics away from the Church.

Jesus NEVER said it would be "easy" for us. One the contrary - He always spoke about how difficult it would be for us:
Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23, Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22, John 14:15, 15:10, Matt. 7:21, James 1:22, Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2

Yes, it is difficult to walk with God when we try to keep one foot in the world, or worse try to do it through our own abilities alone. But, Jesus spoke of the easy way...

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

 

[amadeus]

ha. my response here is that just like "The Fall" that no one can quote, this "problem" is really a blessing, or maybe a lesson would be a better way to put it; we seek to herd up and clique, and love our families, and God seeks Anarchists who rely on Him for their safety, and who love their enemies. Inbreeding goes along with Empire, i guess; that connection should be pretty clear. And all the "go without the camp" and "leave the world" is just so much "stay here for the present" to most ppl, because since that is what we don't want to do, that is what we seek to not do.

But of course you have to close your ears to truth to do that, so you buy up the dictionaries and turn talents into gifts, and Anarchy into Chaos, and go to church out of fear of hell, and get the law that you deserve, and even pay for there, the counterfeit. The end of that should be crystal clear, is clear, only Scripture likes to put it in such a way that we can choose to not hear/associate ourselves with it, if that is what we seek, so no dogs returning to their vomit around here, no sir, we're all OSASed, that ain't us.

People work hard at times to establish themselves by their own efforts. That's where all of the books and studies come in... Those are certainly not evil in themselves, but they won't alone get us in God's front door.

If we want to speak a language that open ears will understand we need to speak God's language. Perhaps if we simply talk regularly to God in any language sincerely and listen for His response we will learn also to communicate with those who really are empty, but hungry and thirsty for they do not know what.

 

[bbyrd009]

People work hard at times to establish themselves by their own efforts. That's where all of the books and studies come in... Those are certainly not evil in themselves, but they won't alone get us in God's front door.

it has produced some beautiful architecture, and some amazing stained glass though

 

[amadeus]

it has produced some beautiful architecture, and some amazing stained glass though

Yes, indeed! I remember many years ago when I was a student in Europe, I saw lots of beautiful cathedrals but for the most part they seemed to be primarily tourist attractions. I would be surprised if that has changed for the better.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, indeed! I remember many years ago when I was a student in Europe, I saw lots of beautiful cathedrals but for the most part they seemed to be primarily tourist attractions. I would be surprised if that has changed for the better.

hey! those ppl got a bidness to run, after all Amadeus :)

 

[BreadOfLife]

You never admit the negative even when you have read it for yourself. The article used the word "discouragement" and I highlighted it for you.

I am afraid you know not about what you speak. Your so-called "easy believism" had nothing to do with it. I remained a nominal Catholic for about 14 years, but actually was nothing but was actively and effectively nothing until I witnessed a family living for God like I had never seen any Catholic live for God. That statement holds true to this date.

I guess we should to give this a rest for a while.

And I reiterate: To NOT encourage is NOT the same as to discourage.
Even if this is what was written in the CA forum that you gleaned it from.

Your seduction in to easy-believism came about because you were a nominal Catholic who was too lazy or indifferent to find out the truth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well since i dont know what that means, since I dont know how you can correct anyone if that is what you are saying. For you to correefct me you must have the truth and so far I have seeing none from you that is not taken completely out of context to glorify your church, and deminish His, that one perfect, spotless and without blemish. SO now that we have admonished you with the truth can we get back to Jesus, or is that to much to hope for from you..

I would respond to this rant - IF I had the foggiest idea of what you are trying to articulate . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, it is difficult to walk with God when we try to keep one foot in the world, or worse try to do it through our own abilities alone. But, Jesus spoke of the easy way...

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

Easier than attempting to keep the LAW.
He never said that salvation was an easy endeavor.

The CONTEXT of the Gospel message is not that it is easy to follow Jesus - but that it is difficult.

Matt. 7:13-14
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

 

[amadeus]

And I reiterate: To NOT encourage is NOT the same as to discourage.
Even if this is what was written in the CA forum that you gleaned it from.

Your seduction in to easy-believism came about because you were a nominal Catholic who was too lazy or indifferent to find out the truth.

Little it is that you understand about people. Fortunately, Jesus can supply any necessary differences. May God richly bless you as you walk with Him.

 

[amadeus]

Easier than attempting to keep the LAW.
He never said that salvation was an easy endeavor.

The CONTEXT of the Gospel message is not that it is easy to follow Jesus - but that it is difficult.

Matt. 7:13-14
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

You should stick to the Douay Rheims version:

"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.
How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!" Matt 7:13-14

It is a narrow way rather than a "hard" way. "Strait" is a synonym to narrow. It the way is small or constricted. The only difficulty would lie in trusting in man instead of trusting in Jesus.

 

[Helen]

Sorry, Amadeus - those are the facts.
YOUR experience is subjective. It's NOT the whole story.

In your lifetime - the Bible was NEVER something that the Church "discouraged."
To say that it was is simply your excuse for leaving the Church.

You speak generally...but maybe his Priest back then was very different to your priest. I can hardly believe that they all have the same light...some are old, some are younger and not as well versed...and I am sure some have their own opinions.
I have not read any posts which follow this one yet...and I see we are well "over the page" now so maybe the subject matters have changed.
I will read the rest now...

 

[Truth]

Truth,

Thanks for the warning...i’ll make sure to just call you foolish :)

that would be fine, I think I can take it--

 

[Richard_oti]

You should stick to the Douay Rheims version:
<snip>
It is a narrow way rather than a "hard" way. "Strait" is a synonym to narrow. It the way is small or constricted. The only difficulty would lie in trusting in man instead of trusting in Jesus.

Actually, a translation of "hard" is not an unreasonable rendition from my perspective.

 

[amadeus]

Actually, a translation of "hard" is not an unreasonable rendition from my perspective.

Just looking at the Greek it is possible. I don't know the language.

Both my German and my Spanish translations use words corresponding better to the "narrow". But that is not my main reason for going the way I do. One reason why I never seriously consider changing from the KJV as my primary English Bible is that it regularly uses a second word with approximately the same meaning in the same verse to reinforce the message so that even in translations the meaning hopefully won't be lost. Of course, when the two similar words are translated differently it could cause confusion as in this case: hard and narrow instead of strait and narrow.

Some years ago I purchased a book called "The Language of the King James Bible" by Gail Riplinger which goes into this in a lot of detail with many examples. I don't read that book much anymore but I do read my Bible and I am often on the watch for such pairs of words.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You speak generally...but maybe his Priest back then was very different to your priest. I can hardly believe that they all have the same light...some are old, some are younger and not as well versed...and I am sure some have their own opinions.
I have not read any posts which follow this one yet...and I see we are well "over the page" now so maybe the subject matters have changed.
I will read the rest now...

I have known and dealt with MANY priests over the years - and they are not the same.
Unfortunately, there are priests out there that take a far more liberal approach - some that even border on heresy.

My point was that just because a priests tells you something doesn't mean that it is 100% true. Sometimes, you need to get off your duff and do some research.

Thankfully, Catholics have the Catechism if they feel the need to fact-check their priset.
Amadeus obviously didn't do that, for whatever reason. BUT, to say that this was the "norm" is a cop-out.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You should stick to the Douay Rheims version:

"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.
How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!" Matt 7:13-14

It is a narrow way rather than a "hard" way. "Strait" is a synonym to narrow. It the way is small or constricted. The only difficulty would lie in trusting in man instead of trusting in Jesus.

In times like this - we should ALWAYS go back to the Greek.

Matt. 7:14
But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

According to Strong's Greek Lexicon and Exhaustive Concordance, the word used here is τηλιβο (thlee'-bo).
This word means: experiencing trouble 1, are being afflicted 1, afflicted 1, afflict 1, difficult 1, distress 1, were troubled 1, we are afflicted 1, suffer affliction 1, would press toward 1

Jesus never said getting to Heaven was going to be easy . . .

Matt. 16:24
“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Mark 13:13
Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Rom. 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

2 Cor 1:6
If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer.

 

[amadeus]

In times like this - we should ALWAYS go back to the Greek.

Matt. 7:14
But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

According to Strong's Greek Lexicon and Exhaustive Concordance, the word used here is τηλιβο (thlee'-bo).
This word means: experiencing trouble 1, are being afflicted 1, afflicted 1, afflict 1, difficult 1, distress 1, were troubled 1, we are afflicted 1, suffer affliction 1, would press toward 1

Jesus never said getting to Heaven was going to be easy . . .

Matt. 16:24
“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Mark 13:13
Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Rom. 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

2 Cor 1:6
If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer.

I do understand what you are saying BOL. I agree in the difficulty, but the difficulty is for carnal man. For God it is always easy. We make it hard for ourselves when we try to do it alone instead of leaning on Him very heavily.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Prov 3:5-6

 

[BreadOfLife]

I do understand what you are saying BOL. I agree in the difficulty, but the difficulty is for carnal man. For God it is always easy. We make it hard for ourselves when we try to do it alone instead of leaning on Him very heavily.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Prov 3:5-6

Scripture tells us that it is MORE than that.
As I've shown - it talks about the difficult sacrifices we'll have to make in order to follow Him.

There is nothing "easy" about it.

 

[amadeus]

Scripture tells us that it is MORE than that.
As I've shown - it talks about the difficult sacrifices we'll have to make in order to follow Him.

There is nothing "easy" about it.

Yes, according to the flesh many things we need to do may be difficult, but if we are trusting in Him and leaning on Him they will not be impossible.