Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

[aspen]

.........one has to be mighty triggered to call someone who prefers to not risk catching someone elses germs an "anti social radical individualist". Just when you think you've heard it all hey.

Granted. But not quite as desperate as a person who chooses not to be catholic because of the fear of cooties

 

[Dcopymope]

Granted. But not quite as desperate as a person who chooses not to be catholic because of the fear of cooties

Well for me, its more like me knowing that my salvation isn't in any way affected whether I drink out of some guys cup or not, among the dozens of other rituals Catholics perform. As far as Jesus was concerned, the only ritual we need to perform on a daily basis was love for God and each other.

 

[BreadOfLife]

of course not, you just ignore those parts lol.

Care to elaborate??

 

[BreadOfLife]

.........one has to be mighty triggered to call someone who prefers to not risk catching someone elses germs an "anti social radical individualist". Just when you think you've heard it all hey.

Drinking from the cup is not mandatory as the Real Presence isn't limited to the Cup.
Jesus is present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in BOTH species.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not quite...perhaps in Catholic translated Bibles. What David said, and I paraphrase, (brakelite's translation if you like) How can the ark possibly come to me when everyone is cursed by its presence? He said this after Uzzah had put his hand forth to steady the ark when it threatened to fall, and he died. 2 Samuel 6:9...The part you left out...and David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, "how shall the ark of the Lord come to me?"
Context is everything. Elisabeth was not afraid, and her exclamation was, in fact, her prophesying as a result of the baby leaping in her womb, not in recognition of Mary, but in recognition of He Who was within her.

But I do find those comparisons interesting if nothing more than further insight into the Catholic mind. But not sufficient to create a whole dogma that demands belief in her resurrection and crowned queen of heaven. I will reiterate what I said earlier. John saw the door opened into the heavenly sanctuary where we know Jesus mediates as our High Priest. There, in the sanctuary, the very throne room of God, John saw the ark of His testament. What is God's testament? What is it that the ark carried? What is it that is so sacred that it be overlaid with gold and never to be touched except by those especially sanctified to do so? What is it that forms the foundation of God's throne and His government? What is it that required the guardianship of two cherubim, one of whom was Lucifer who was expelled from heaven because he abandoned his post? See Exodus 25:21; Numbers 1:50,53; and Revelation 15:5.
I will not deny that Mary was a woman worthy of respect. She raised our Lord and taught Him the ways of God from His earliest years, and credit must go to her for that. She was a woman of faith, accepting her role without a doubt and without complaint. But she was also a sinner such as we are. She needed a Saviour just as we do. (Luke 1:47) Jesus did not go through life without sin because His mother was "immaculate", or sinless. Jesus remained sinless by choice...not because of His birth. And it is by His divine power abiding in us that we also may overcome sin...by choice. By faith. Not by the sacraments of the church...not through good works...not through the merits of others who are 'more exalted or holy' than ourselves...but through faith in the grace and mercy of a loving Saviour who intercedes for us next to the throne of the Almighty God whose throne is built on law and love.
Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Nice try.

However, as we see just a few verses later when the Ark arrives - David is leaping and dancing with utter JOY before the Ark.
He is not cowering in fear.

As for what the Ark carried - It contained the Tablets of the Law, a jar of Manna and the Aaron's staff., which are all SYMBOLS of God's power.
These are ALL prefigurements of Jesus, who is the Word, the Bread of Life and God's Right Hand. Mary is the Ark of the NEW Covenant (Jesus) because she carried the fulfillment of what was in the original wooden Ark.

As for Mary - she never sinned. As Scripture reveals to us - she was Kecharitomene (Luke 1:28). NOBODY else in ALL of Scripture was ever given this title but Mary.

The Greek word Kecharitomene that Luke used in his Gospel (v.1:28), which is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with permanent result. It translates, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.” Kecharitomene is not a mere description here. It is used as a TITLE.
The Angel didn’t say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.” He said, "Hail, "Kecharitomene."

She indeed needed a Savior - and WAS saved at conception.
We are saved by being pulled out of the mud of sin. Mary was prevented from falling into that mud.

 

[bbyrd009]

If one understands the meaning of "veneration", it's impossible to "take it too far", unless one is a reformist Protestant.

says the Catholic, i mean c'mon bro boundary stones is even in the DRB, i'm pretty sure.
i won't even bother asking why you come to a Christian site rather than a Catholic one

 

[bbyrd009]

Care to elaborate??

when you reply to "does a person have to be a Catholic in your belief system to be saved," sure

 

[BreadOfLife]

when you reply to "does a person have to be a Catholic in your belief system to be saved," sure

Nope.

NOW - would you care to elaborate on your earlier comment: "of course not, you just ignore those parts lol."

 

[bbyrd009]

Nope.

NOW - would you care to elaborate on your earlier comment: "of course not, you just ignore those parts lol."

cmon BoL, you have heard that like, what, 5 times a day for the last umpty-ump whatever. If you are trying to change, then wadr just go back to any post that you have cherry-picked for opportunities to preach at people rather than addressing the point of the post, and read again. Wadr i could pick one virtually at random from your feed ok.

And first i would go to a Catholic forum rather than a Christian one, unless you are now prepared to go outside the camp, and abandon your heritage though--no one serious is interested in discussions where a winner and a loser are implied. i think Catholics are great--they are no diff than anyone else imo--but i am not interested in contesting with one, personally.

But if that serves you, then do it imo; i would say at least recognize it, and don't be in denial about it.
i enjoyed contesting with people on forums and being perceived as the winner for years, it is human nature, and after all you're both consenting adults right. i personally prefer lying to white men these days, think i'll go find a wasp and lie to them right now

 

[epostle1]

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

My third posting of this...

As I read through the posts on the Site. I thought to myself. “I wonder what kind of Christian Site this would be if all the references to RCC, RC, Catholic , Roman Catholic , and any post about their religion , the Pope etc, were deleted….and vanished!! What if?

What if everyone stopped looking at another person belief system ,and what if....everyone started looking to the Lord, writing about the good things of the Lord... instead of looking at what others are doing, and what if everyone started to share on the site the positive uplifting things,…even the hard things, happy things, sad things, and things that God was helping to get them through in their life!


It is sad ‘for me’ that the great bulk of postings on this Site are just preoccupations and distractions about with and about the Catholic doctrines and what others happen to believe!!

Is this the best that we can do?? Shame on us....



Yep, I think half or more of the content of this Site would totally vanish if all anti-Catholic discussions and posts were pulled off.


What if….

I think if we did what you say, we'd have a daily prayer thread going 24 hours a day.
People would take the time to give their testimony.
We would speak about real problems we have and try to help if we can.
God raises up people for different things.
When people ask questions about salvation, we would give simple loving answers and let it absorb a little at a time.
Make them feel comfortable to ask about what they don't understand.
And if people want to fight, they should do it in the debate forum only.
Otherwise, do our best to agree with each other and build each other up in our relationship with Jesus.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Sola Scriptura, that's me.

 

[brakelite]

Nice try.

However, as we see just a few verses later when the Ark arrives - David is leaping and dancing with utter JOY before the Ark.
He is not cowering in fear.

As for what the Ark carried - It contained the Tablets of the Law, a jar of Manna and the Aaron's staff., which are all SYMBOLS of God's power.
These are ALL prefigurements of Jesus, who is the Word, the Bread of Life and God's Right Hand. Mary is the Ark of the NEW Covenant (Jesus) because she carried the fulfillment of what was in the original wooden Ark.

As for Mary - she never sinned. As Scripture reveals to us - she was Kecharitomene (Luke 1:28). NOBODY else in ALL of Scripture was ever given this title but Mary.

The Greek word Kecharitomene that Luke used in his Gospel (v.1:28), which is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with permanent result. It translates, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.” Kecharitomene is not a mere description here. It is used as a TITLE.
The Angel didn’t say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.” He said, "Hail, "Kecharitomene."

She indeed needed a Savior - and WAS saved at conception.
We are saved by being pulled out of the mud of sin. Mary was prevented from falling into that mud.

The Bible actually completely contradicts the Catholic position BoL. Jesus was born into that mud-pile. Jesus did NOT need to be born of an immaculate person in order to be Who He is. He was born, according to the full context of Hebrews 2:14-18, especially v16, of the same flesh and blood of the seed, the descendants, of Abraham, not the ancestors. He took upon Him the nature of fallen mankind, of Adam after the fall, not before. He was born with the same liabilities, the same fallen nature that we are born with, the difference being that He, with the help of His Father, did not sin. He was born with the very same nature we are born with...there is no such thing as original sin. We are born with a sinful nature, that tends toward sin, but our sin is a choice we make...we do not HAVE to sin. Jesus successfully resisted every temptation that Satan could hurl at Him. He is our example. By faith in HIm, we too are to overcome on every point and be overcomers. It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature, even as Adam stood in his innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by 4000 years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. What these results were is shown in our earthly ancestors. But He came with such a heredity to share our sorrows and temptations, and to give us the example of a sinless life.
In our humanity, Christ was to redeem Adam's failure. But when Adam was assailed by Satan, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full strength of body and mind, surrounded by the glories and beauty of Eden, and in constant fellowship with God and angels. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For 4000 years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, and in moral worth, and Christ took upon HIm all the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of his degradation.
Many claim it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation . Then He could not have been placed in Adam's position. He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain.If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succour us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured.

Jesus is a human just as we are.Yet He also retained His divinity, but laying aside the advantages of divinity, He had no advantage over us in His battle with the enemy. He showed the way to victory, that we may also have confidence that in His strength, as He relied on His Father's strength, that we too can overcome sin in this life. To deny this truth, is merely a means by which one can excuse himself for sinning...and expect to sin till the day he dies.

It might interest you to understand that he who denies that Jesus came in the flesh, is Antichrist. 2 John 1:7

 

[Helen]

I think if we did what you say, we'd have a daily prayer thread going 24 hours a day.
People would take the time to give their testimony.
We would speak about real problems we have and try to help if we can.
God raises up people for different things.
When people ask questions about salvation, we would give simple loving answers and let it absorb a little at a time.
Make them feel comfortable to ask about what they don't understand.
And if people want to fight, they should do it in the debate forum only.
Otherwise, do our best to agree with each other and build each other up in our relationship with Jesus.

Very true...wouldn't that be something.

 

[Grams]

I think if we did what you say, we'd have a daily prayer thread going 24 hours a day.
People would take the time to give their testimony.
We would speak about real problems we have and try to help if we can.
God raises up people for different things.
When people ask questions about salvation, we would give simple loving answers and let it absorb a little at a time.
Make them feel comfortable to ask about what they don't understand.
And if people want to fight, they should do it in the debate forum only.
Otherwise, do our best to agree with each other and build each other up in our relationship with Jesus.

Sure wish this were possible in my time ! Because I did not get saved till my 50's and the rest of my family !

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Bible actually completely contradicts the Catholic position BoL. Jesus was born into that mud-pile. Jesus did NOT need to be born of an immaculate person in order to be Who He is. He was born, according to the full context of Hebrews 2:14-18, especially v16, of the same flesh and blood of the seed, the descendants, of Abraham, not the ancestors. He took upon Him the nature of fallen mankind, of Adam after the fall, not before. He was born with the same liabilities, the same fallen nature that we are born with, the difference being that He, with the help of His Father, did not sin. He was born with the very same nature we are born with...there is no such thing as original sin. We are born with a sinful nature, that tends toward sin, but our sin is a choice we make...we do not HAVE to sin. Jesus successfully resisted every temptation that Satan could hurl at Him. He is our example. By faith in HIm, we too are to overcome on every point and be overcomers. It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature, even as Adam stood in his innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by 4000 years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. What these results were is shown in our earthly ancestors. But He came with such a heredity to share our sorrows and temptations, and to give us the example of a sinless life.
In our humanity, Christ was to redeem Adam's failure. But when Adam was assailed by Satan, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full strength of body and mind, surrounded by the glories and beauty of Eden, and in constant fellowship with God and angels. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For 4000 years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, and in moral worth, and Christ took upon HIm all the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of his degradation.
Many claim it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation . Then He could not have been placed in Adam's position. He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain.If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succour us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured.

Jesus is a human just as we are.Yet He also retained His divinity, but laying aside the advantages of divinity, He had no advantage over us in His battle with the enemy. He showed the way to victory, that we may also have confidence that in His strength, as He relied on His Father's strength, that we too can overcome sin in this life. To deny this truth, is merely a means by which one can excuse himself for sinning...and expect to sin till the day he dies.

It might interest you to understand that he who denies that Jesus came in the flesh, is Antichrist. 2 John 1:7

And nobody said that Jesus HAD to be be born of a sinless woman. That's just the way God willed it.

The Ark of the Covenant carried symbols of God's power and was made of earthly materials - and was purified and blessed throughout.
The Ark of the NEW Covenant carried GOD Himself and was made of flesh and blood - and was purified and blessed throughout.

And WHO is "denying" that Jesus came in the flesh??

Like I said before - I cannot argue with Scripture.
You simply cannot get beyond Mary's title of "Kecharitomene" . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sure wish this were possible in my time ! Because I did not get saved till my 50's and the rest of my family !

You were born again at Baptism.
If you fell away before you were in your 50's - that is YOUR fault.

Don't blames the Church because YOU fell away.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sola Scriptura, that's me.

It's a shame that Scripture doesn't support you OR your false doctrine . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

cmon BoL, you have heard that like, what, 5 times a day for the last umpty-ump whatever. If you are trying to change, then wadr just go back to any post that you have cherry-picked for opportunities to preach at people rather than addressing the point of the post, and read again. Wadr i could pick one virtually at random from your feed ok.

And first i would go to a Catholic forum rather than a Christian one, unless you are now prepared to go outside the camp, and abandon your heritage though--no one serious is interested in discussions where a winner and a loser are implied. i think Catholics are great--they are no diff than anyone else imo--but i am not interested in contesting with one, personally.

But if that serves you, then do it imo; i would say at least recognize it, and don't be in denial about it.
i enjoyed contesting with people on forums and being perceived as the winner for years, it is human nature, and after all you're both consenting adults right. i personally prefer lying to white men these days, think i'll go find a wasp and lie to them right now

Ummmmm, first of al - the is zero difference between "Catholic" and "Christian". It's one and the SAME.
What YOU are trying to say is Catholic or "Protestant."

Anyway - you went on this angry rant simply because I asked you to elaborate on a stupid remark you made.
If you don't want me to ask you to elaborate on such nonsense - then don't make those kinds of comments . . .

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It's a shame that Scripture doesn't support you OR your false doctrine . . .

It really surprises me that everyone on this planet makes more sense then Scripture.