If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

[Grams]

I left the church 30 years ago and it was still in Latin........

 

[aspen]

I left the church 30 years ago and it was still in Latin........

The sermon too, right?

You must have been attending a traditional catholic church, not in fellowship with the Vatican

 

[GodsGrace]

The virgins are those who have heard the gospel and received it. The foolish ones are they whose love has grown cold, their lights extinguished... They dont feed the hungry or clothe the naked or tend the sick, they are those that pass the man in need on the other side of the road....

The wise ones are they who love! Their lamps burning, these our Lord will bring with Him into the eternal banquet hall at His return... Then the doors will be shut... Thats it ... New heavens ... New Earth... Eternity in union with our Lord, our God, our Husband.

Pax!

The ones without oil weren't Ready.
And we cannot get the oil from others...iow, use others to be ready,
We have to be ready on our own, through our own efforts.

 

[GodsGrace]

The sermon too, right?

You must have been attending a traditional catholic church, not in fellowship with the Vatican

I very rarely go to a Latin Mass but the homily is in Italian.
Very rarely. I enjoy the communion part.

 

[aspen]

I left the church 30 years ago and it was still in Latin........

So what happened in 1964 to start it off?
The First Sunday of Advent in 1964 was the line in the sand for the church in the United States. On that Sunday the Mass was said in English for the first time, and the priest began facing the people again, which was the tradition of the early church and had been the case in St. Peter’s Basilica for centuries.

Wills writes, “It was like going to a house of alien occupancy.” It was a house you knew and loved, but suddenly it was as if someone else was living there. Because there were no Catholic hymns, most dioceses decided to use nondescript Protestant hymns. I think priests were very ill prepared to explain to their congregations what was going on. Some of the bishops, even those most in favor of the reforms, like Archbishop John Dearden of Detroit, feared that there would be a rebellion in the pews.

The surprising thing is that most people liked the new Mass. There were a few strong rejections, but the expected explosion never materialized. Sociologist Father Andrew Greeley said that within two years around 73 percent of American Catholics said they liked the changes in the liturgy, which was astonishing. Nobody expected that.

http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2011/05/times-they-were-achanging-mark-massa-catholic-60s


The Homily was always given in the vernacular (in America, English) and the English translation of the Mass was avalible in the Missal.

Something tells me you like to hang on to this inaccurate stereotype of Catholicism to justify leaving the church because your story is simply not true

It is okay to find another church and attend it without spreading rumors about the catholic chirch. I left the Protestant church 17 years ago and I do not spread rumors about the church I left, in fact I attend a Protestant bible study.

You seem to be justifying BOL’s personal crusade

 

[Naomi25]

I do not claim the Catholic Church is perfect. There are many problems within my church. Vatican II has corrected some of these issues - Catholics are now encouraged to educate themselves and lead an active spiritual life. There are still Catholics that resist change and cannot reconcille how they practiced their religion as kids and the call for greater personal responsibility being taught today. We still have to grow and make changes in the way we practice our Christianity.

Well, this is too be expected within any denomination, isn't it? Protestant or Catholic. The Reformation may have laid down wonderful guideline and biblical principles, but does ever pastor, congregation follow them? Nope! Not by a long shot! Human people are fallen, faulty! That's why we need to constantly look to the one who is not.
I understand the desire to stand up for ones denomination...after all, attacks do come that are not at all worthy of Christian consideration. But I think we must realistically understand that no church or leader is perfect, and sometimes we fall down or short. Admitting it does not mean that our denomination is false, or wrong...just that person, or that congregation. We call out sin in the hope it will be repented of, moved away from and grown through. I'm not exactly sure why this can't be done with some measure of respect for one another!

 

[Helen]

Amen @Naomi25 So very , very true.

 

[Ac28]

What is the "fake" Catholics Church - as opposed to the real Catholic Church?

It's a fake church built around fake doctrine. It contains a fake priesthood and fake sacraments. No truth is in it, at all. It is, and has always been, the most evil organization on the planet.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

The virgins are those who have heard the gospel and received it. The foolish ones are they whose love has grown cold, their lights extinguished... They dont feed the hungry or clothe the naked or tend the sick, they are those that pass the man in need on the other side of the road....

The wise ones are they who love! Their lamps burning, these our Lord will bring with Him into the eternal banquet hall at His return... Then the doors will be shut... Thats it ... New heavens ... New Earth... Eternity in union with our Lord, our God, our Husband.

Pax!

Thanks for sharing. I disagree, of course, since the difference between the two is the oil or the lack thereof for why the foolish were out to the market to get it, and so if the having the oil was loving others, then how can the ones seeking that oil to love others be left out? But thanks for sharing anyway.

 

[Naomi25]

When you belong to a church or a denomination whose doctrines you strongly believe in - and the your pastor in your particular town isn't cutting the mustard in your opinion - do you:
a. Seek guidance from the hierarchy of that denomination and do some research on your own to find out the truth?
- OR -
b. Abandon your denomination - even though you supposedly agree with its doctrines because the truth just ain't worth it?

ANY sane person would do whatever they could to bypass a bad pastor or minister to get to the truth. Only AFTER this would they consider leaving.

As I said before - in the end, God isn't going to give you a pass on reading Scripture because "nobody told you" to read it on your own.
My 91 year old mother had a 6th grade education and has been reading the Bible her entire life because she LOVES God - and NOT because somebody told her to.

Yes, normally I would agree with you here. If you knew enough to see that your pastor/priest wasn't being faithful, you would indeed seek elsewhere, or talk to him.
However...we must allow that some people have been raised NOT knowing enough. They have been brought to believe that what they have always had is all they need. Who's fault is that? Perhaps their parents, although that could just go on and on back up the generations. The teacher certainly, as they do have the word of God. Children, and likewise infants in the knowledge of the gospel and God, cannot learn by osmosis...just by being in a church. They need to be told initially. It's only once they have enough information that they can, themselves, realize that something isn't matching what they know scripture teaches.

Now...I'll grant you that for most people who come to a love of God, they find a hunger in themselves to pick up his word. However, the problem I see here is...if people attending a particular Catholic Parish are led to believe that they are "okay" with God...justified, in other words...by attending mass, confession, etc...then their heart and soul will not naturally seek anything outside of that. Why would they? They'd most likely be saying to themselves, "God and me, we're fine, so I get to keep living as I am, so all's well". And that's hard, because sin is seductive.


Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. - Acts 17:11

I think we must allow, biblically, that the teacher has the burden to teach the 'word' faithfully...and this includes pointing his flock to scripture themselves, If he has done this, then yes...the fault does rest on the individual.

My concern in all this was...you automatically assumed Grams was lying and that the fault rested on her. You did this without knowing her, her Priest or the situation. You assumed knowledge that only God himself can know, and was nasty to her...all because you need to defend the RCC above everything else.

If I may make a suggestion..? The Church is Christ's. And he is a conquering King. He will defend what is his quite well from unrighteousness and from sinful people. What must break his heart is to have those that are his fighting within. Trust a little more in him, and that good will triumph...which ever way that will be...and loose some of that bitterness you seem to be harboring those who speak against the RCC, even casually.

 

[Philip James]

It's a fake church built around fake doctrine. It contains a fake priesthood and fake sacraments. No truth is in it, at all. It is, and has always been, the most evil organization on the planet.

Im glad ive never met that fake catholic church... Sounds nasty

 

[Philip James]

then how can the ones seeking that oil to love others be left out?

Because its too late... Or as they say these days... Game Over..?

 

[Philip James]

God and me, we're fine, so I get to keep living as I am, so all's well"

And who are you to judge if this is true or not?

Pax!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I have read this post THREE times now - and can't make any sense of it.

I will be MORE than happy to respond if you want to re-write it in a more grammatically-structured manner. The text in RED is especially garbled.

You are still demanding for all Catholics not to be lazy by disregarding the teachings from the Catholic Church to know what the scripture actually says in putting their fears to rest.

When the Catholic catechism on pg 222 #837 teaches that although incorporated in the Catholic Church, and doing the sacraments, if the believer does not persevere in charity, he is not saved. So for a "lazy" Catholic to ally that fear of going to hell for not going to the confessional, they would have to disregard what the Catholic catechism teaches to read what the KJV Bible says instead. Funny how there is nothing about going to hell if they do not go to the confessionals or losing salvation at all when we have this promise in John 6:39-40.

You are found wanting in giving that judgment about Catholics being lazy when you fail to provide scripture to prove their laziness by allaying their fears that they are going to hell if they do not go to the confessionals.

Indeed, since you believe one can lose their salvation, you would be hard pressed to allay their fears for not going to the confessionals.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Because its too late... Or as they say these days... Game Over..?

Okay. Thanks for sharing. I still disagree simply for the fact that the foolish virgins were with the prudent ones in the beginning in waiting for the Bridegroom, which would strongly suggest they were believers as well, but thanks anyway, brother.

 

[Philip James]

which would strongly suggest they were believers as well

Indeed.

And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

 

[Naomi25]

And who are you to judge if this is true or not?

Pax!

I wasn't claiming it to be true, just possible! And it's certainly something that happens in the Protestant congregations to an extent as well. How many sit in pews thinking they are "down" with Jesus because of external showings, or mistaken understandings, or arrogant assumptions? It's a human failing, not a Catholic or Protestant one, I think. But we need to be ready and willing to call it where we see it. Trying to smooth over top of it just for the sake of the reputation of our particular denomination won't benefit anyone. And why should we? Jesus comes for the lost and broken. That says there's always hope for people and their mistakes...but if they won't acknowledge them, they'll ride their belief that their just fine all the way to the bottom. We don't want that, and Jesus doesn't want that.

 

[Philip James]

But we need to be ready and willing to call it where we see it

Not till we see it and correct it in ourselves first... And even then Id be careful how you judge.. By the measure you measure..

Pax!

 

[Helen]

Indeed.

And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

So, do you believe that the 'Oil' having run out in their lamps was love?

I have believed that for a long time. Someone who loves, stays awake to the wee hours waiting for their beloved to come home...
listen for the sound of the car.

Obviously there was a place where they could go, to have their love rekindled
"..but when they returned the door was shut." I think it was the 1000 years before the 'door' was 'opened' again to them.

All these kind of things I hold very loosely though.

 

[Philip James]

So, do you believe that the 'Oil' having run out in their lamps was love

Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.

Pax!