Paul didn't want to be in the naked state in the grave. He wanted the resurrection to occur before he died.Not Scriptural; this is the crux. "Absent from the body"; "present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5.8).
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Paul didn't want to be in the naked state in the grave. He wanted the resurrection to occur before he died.Not Scriptural; this is the crux. "Absent from the body"; "present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5.8).
?????Paul didn't want to be in the naked state in the grave. He wanted the resurrection to occur before he died.
You continue to erroneously post about the *spirit* which returns to God, but in that context the word should be translated as *breath* [the same Hebrew word ruach (or in Greek pneuma) can mean either (1) wind, or (2) breath, or (3) spirit, DEPENDING ON CONTEXT].only out spirit return to God who gave it. and on his return we all will be resurrected,
GINOLJC, to all.You continue to erroneously post about the *spirit* which returns to God, but in that context the word should be translated as *breath* [the same Hebrew word ruach (or in Greek pneuma) can mean either (1) wind, or (2) breath, or (3) spirit, DEPENDING ON CONTEXT].
So God gives the breath of life to living creatures, and then takes that breath away, and they die. This is simply a euphemism for physical death. Respiration stops, comes to an end.
However it has nothing to do with the departure of the souls AND spirits (not breath) of those who die in Christ. The Bible is perfectly clear that all who die in Christ go to be with the Lord in Heaven. Meaning their souls and spirits, since the bodies are placed in graves awaiting the Resurrection of the saints.
I simply cannot understand when people say they are Christians but have serious reservations about going to Heaven to be with Christ (who is in Heaven). Stephen's soul and spirit went to Heaven, and all the OT and NT saints are now in Heaven.
ok if that the case, please explain this scripture,his is simply a euphemism for physical death. Respiration stops, comes to an end.
please give book chapter and verse.The Bible is perfectly clear that all who die in Christ go to be with the Lord in Heaven
Secondly, the scripture uses the expression 'sleep' for the death we experience in the present time on earth. It uses this term because all who have experienced this death will at one point be resurrected, both good and evil. In that sense it is not final, subsequently it is referred to in scripture as a sleep.
Not so. Resurrected bodies will consist of flesh and bones. Not ethereal spirits floating around.Not at some point,the resurrection happens at death,the flesh will not be raised,it's over and done with
Since you blithely ignore chapter and verse none will be given. The death of Stephen has been presented as proof positive that the souls and spirits of the saints go to Heaven immediately upon death.please give book chapter and verse.
Don't see that at all Enoch. One has to distort the definitions of soul and spirit to see what you assert.Since you blithely ignore chapter and verse none will be given. The death of Stephen has been presented as proof positive that the souls and spirits of the saints go to Heaven immediately upon death.
Not so. Resurrected bodies will consist of flesh and bones. Not ethereal spirits floating around.
LUKE 24
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,Have ye here any meat? [food]
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
GINOLJC, to all.Since you blithely ignore chapter and verse none will be given. The death of Stephen has been presented as proof positive that the souls and spirits of the saints go to Heaven immediately upon death.
So where do you see Stephen's soul and spirit going, after he SPECIFICALLY asks Christ to receive his spirit? The soul and spirit are so closely together that only the Word of God can pierce through to the spirit.Don't see that at all Enoch. One has to distort the definitions of soul and spirit to see what you assert.
I'm surprised you ask this question Enoch as the spirit/soul issue has been thrashed out here more times than I remember.So where do you see Stephen's soul and spirit going, after he SPECIFICALLY asks Christ to receive his spirit? The soul and spirit are so closely together that only the Word of God can pierce through to the spirit.
Well it is all rather simple, but the naysayers like to confuse themselves and everyone else.Any comments?
Yes this is getting intresting.
because the way words are used in context can mean another thing.
example, when the Prophet David, said,
Psalms 63:9 "But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
Psalms 63:10 "They shall fall by the sword: they shall be a portion for foxes.
so something beside their bodies went to the "LOWER" Parts of the earth, because their bodies, dust, was for the foxes.
I'm going to be watching this tread.
Well it is all rather simple, but the naysayers like to confuse themselves and everyone else.
There are three Greek words (Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus) which have all unfortunately been translated as *hell* in the KJV, and one Hebrew word (Sheol, which is Hades in Greek) which should be been transliterated but was mistranslated as *the grave*, since the grave is only approx six feet under the soil. Sheol/Hades is located in *the heart of the earth* or *the lower parts of the earth* (which would make it close to the core of the earth, which is extremely hot).
BEFORE THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
Sheol was the abode of ALL the departed souls and spirits, righteous and unrighteous. It had a separate *compartment* for the righteous, called *Abraham's bosom* by Christ, and a wide chasm or gulf which separated them from the unrighteous. Christ went to Hades for three days and three nights, not to suffer, or remain silent, but to proclaim (preach to the spirits in prison) His victory at the Cross.
AFTER THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
Jesus took all the righteous dead (souls and spirits) to the New Jerusalem in Heaven, and thus they are called *the spirits of just [justified] men made perfect* (Heb 12:23).
However, all the unrighteous dead still go to Hades, a place of torment, until the resurrection unto damnation, following which they are cast into Gehenna (Hell, the Lake of Fire). The Lake of Fire is located in *outer darkness*, which can only mean outside of space (which is finite).
Purgatory is a figment of the imagination, and is not even worth discussing.
Yes this is getting intresting.
because the way words are used in context can mean another thing.
example, when the Prophet David, said,
Psalms 63:9 "But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
Psalms 63:10 "They shall fall by the sword: they shall be a portion for foxes.
so something beside their bodies went to the "LOWER" Parts of the earth, because their bodies, dust, was for the foxes.
I'm going to be watching this tread.
Regarding Ecclesiastes 9:5 in context, discussing verse 10 in particular:
In the Greek, we have this: ὅτι οὐκ ἔστιν ποίημα καὶ λογισμὸς καὶ γνῶσις καὶ σοφία ἐν ᾅδῃ, ὅπου σὺ πορεύῃ ἐκεῖ. = "for there is no work, nor planning, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in Hades where you are going." Hades was at once both the Underworld, and at other times more specifically the punishment side of the Underworld, what we today call Hell.
The Hebrew uses the word שְׁאוֹל, literally Sheol, which was a blanket term they used indiscriminately to refer to both sides of the Underworld (Paradise and Hades combined, and the "gulf" fixed between them, which the rich man could not cross over to get to Abraham and Lazarus. Incidentally it uses the word Hades there as well). Thus, if you regard both the LXX and Masoretic to be authoritative translations of the Old Testament, then the reference has to be to the Underworld.
There are three Greek words (Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus) which have all unfortunately been translated as *hell* in the KJV, and one Hebrew word (Sheol, which is Hades in Greek) which should be been transliterated but was mistranslated as *the grave*, since the grave is only approx six feet under the soil. Sheol/Hades is located in *the heart of the earth* or *the lower parts of the earth* (which would make it close to the core of the earth, which is extremely hot).