Agnostic at heart

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Indeed, that would be fortunate.

You say that but look at all Job lost. It was a journey into seeing and not just hearing of. Kind of lines up with He who loses his life will find it. Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

mine eye seeth thee is singular. Consider
Hebrews 11:26-27 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. [27] By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

It wasn’t until not long ago that I noticed the “endured, as seeing him who is invisible.” I just assumed Moses saw as I see carnally. But “as seeing him who is invisible.”

Acts 23:11
[11] And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Paul maybe would have echoed Job’s words of “I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee” The Lord stood by him(He who is invisible as visible).

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.
 

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
9,863
14,508
113
65
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Everyone cherry picks what they want from the bible, and what's wrong with that. I tell you what's wrong with it, it's dishonest I tell ya.
lol....I suppose to some it may seem dishonest.....but it is the most profound book ever to teach others about love, humility, wisdom, and charity. It doesn't seek to destroy us but rather to save us and to show us how to have a life full of joy, peace and hope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Acolyte

FatalMoves

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
237
72
43
50
Brisbane
Faith
Agnostic
Country
Australia
lol....I suppose to some it may seem dishonest.....but it is the most profound book ever to teach others about love, humility, wisdom, and charity. It doesn't seek to destroy us but rather to save us and to show us how to have a life full of joy, peace and hope.
Now whos cherry picking huh?
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,544
7,584
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I have never known if God is real or not, and I've never had an encounter with the great divine. I've tried my best to believe in Jesus years ago, but I never got closer to answering that question. I've read the bible many times, but still I have found nothing that proves or disproves God.
This is what I read in Romans 1:20 .....for since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities _ his eternal power and divine nature_ have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Acolyte

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,925
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
um well if i'm getting you here we could def go take a look and see how many pistis have been made into "belief" if you want. Scripture denies the importance of "beliefs" in many places, several different ways

I don't care to debate belief vs faith, nor find a varying degree of unimportance.
So I'll pass on your suggestion.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,925
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
well that is entirely up to you, you don't have to ever if you don't want

that is that same as "bless me for I have sinned?" don't think so wadr

Ok, we Differ on opinion.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Many are called...Few are chosen.

The Drawing TO Jesus, is VIA "His methods".
It primarily "His servants" that do the "Drawing" TO Jesus...

A TV program, A Radio broadcast, Newspapers announcements, A Church's open invitation, Online forums, A chance meeting a stranger...

Every time Jesus is spoken and your ears hear...It's a call to draw your interest to hear more.

It is entirely your own decision TO hear more...believe what you hear...verify what you hear against Scripture...

Everytime one hears..."they ARE" being "enLIGHTened", to the word of God.

Men who CONTINUE hearing/reading...Continue being "enLIGHTENed".

The "enLIGHTening", is the POWER of God at WORK...who IS LIGHT.

Mans NATURAL self is "also" "at work"...
Hearing, wondering, believing, denying, unsure, believing some things, doubting some things.

THE "KEY", is to KEEP hearing/reading...
Which is the Factor that KEEPS the enLIGHTening being Accomplished.

Learning IS a process.
Knowledge FIRST...
Understanding of the Knowledge...LATER

A parent tells their little Child...
Mommy loves you...the child says okay.
This is a book...the child says okay.
God made you...the child says okay.
Gods Son is Jesus...the child says okay.
Jesus loves you...the child says okay.

The little child does not analyze and question...what's a mommy, love, book, God, Son, Jesus....

The child is simply being told informational knowledge....and trusts the knowledge is true.

That's how it works also regarding God.
When you can hear/read and TRUST the knowledge is True....your enLIGHTening is being enlarged.

You can READ "MANY" books and think in your MIND, that does not make SENSE, or NOT know what the words MEAN.

You can come across all kinds of situations, in work, in hobbies, in entertainment, in conversations....where things will not make Logical SENSE to your MIND.

You can RESEARCH, FIGURE, WEIGH (between this and that) and LOGICALLY conclude, to your MINDS satisfaction, what you are willing to believe is a truthful fact.
(And tomorrow, you may change YOUR MIND).

^ THAT is what the Human Nature of a mans MIND does.

And a man who has become an ADULT...has (for years) been relying on HIS NATURAL MIND, to come to his own UNDERSTANDING of things he has learned (information and knowledge).

Gods word is information and knowledge.
It is MANS "natural tendency" to use his own mind, TO FIGURE OUT, what is GODS Understanding of "Gods" information and knowledge.

Straight up Fact...Mans MIND is NOT EQUIPPED with the Ability to "FIGURE and LOGICALLY conclude"...Gods Understanding of His own "information and knowledge".

So...it becomes a matter of TRUST.

The Scriptures are FULL of Knowledge that God APPROVES, for mankind TO hear/read.

Of course God desires that men, TRUST to Believe all that is written in the Scriptures.

Yet we full well KNOW, "adults" want Knowledge and immediately want the "understanding of the knowledge".....or what?
Well what DO adults DO, when they do not understand something?
Argue "their" ideas?
Go read what someone else says?
See if it makes Sense to "their" mind, then adopt what the other has said/ETC.

That is the case for the teaching of PATIENCE!

Foremost...Gods Knowledge IS Spiritual, as God is Spirit. Thus Gods Understanding IS Spiritual, as God is Spirit.

A man (who is NOT with a quickened spirit), reads, with the power of his natural mind, gathering information, and Ciphering whether or not to BELIEVE what he is reading.

A BEGINNER, reading Scripture, FAIRS WELL, to "FOCUS" on WHAT parts of Scripture he DOES BELIEVE, and set aside, what he DOES NOT BELIEVE.

THE POINT for ^THAT...is the man Revealing the TRUST of his "enLIGHTment"....TO God...
(And himself).

The GIFT God "gives' to man WHO TRUSTS to Believe the word of God.......IS measures of FAITH.

IN Short...the more the man Trusts to Believe the word......the MORE FAITH God gives the man.

The MORE FAITH, the man RECEIVES, The MORE CAPABLE the man IS, to trust to believe MORE.

It is a Preparation "process"....of the EFFORT of a man....and the GIFT of Faith from God....

And IS designed to PREPARE the man...to have ENOUGH FAITH....that the man WILL CHOOSE to "commit" himself "TO" God, BY,
A Confession TO God of the mans Belief.

It is required to be A TRUE CONFESSION from the mans Heart.....(not an analytical confession from the mans MIND).

Once a man IS Accomplished in ^^ such a Confession....
"NUMEROUS things" about that man CHANGES...ONCE and FOREVER.

Scriptural Warning....BE SURE, when making a Confession to God.
(Inasmuch as you require Gods Truth from God, so also, He requires your Truth from you.)

And one of the "things" is...such a man THEREAFTER has, DIRECT Access TO thee Lord God....to ASK HIM "His Understanding" of "His OWN knowledge".

WARNING...God is not a plaything, for a mans Mind to be coy with. A man who becomes established in a "direct" relationship with thee Lord God, IS a SPIRITUAL relationship.

Read/studying is still required...man showing a genuine Effort to Receive His Knowledge...
And He will repay with the SAME genuine Effort, of His Understanding of His Knowledge forward to the man.

That IS the Beauty of Gods Understanding of His Knowledge...."HIS Understanding of HIS Knowledge, IS RESERVED FOR, those WHO have an Established Spiritual "Relationship"
"WITH" Him.

And all others....are left to their own, wild guessing, wondering, other mens ideas, etc.
(Flimsy).

Personally, IMO, you appear as though, YOU FOCUS on Scriptural things....YOU DO NOT BELIEVE.

A word of WISDOM....God is NOT LISTENING TO YOUR "rejection", however He IS, making records of evidence (Against you) for YOUR rejection.

A word of advice...FOCUS on what is in Scripture that you DO BELIEVE....and experience the POWER of the "gift of faith",
That God is most pleased to give to you.

Glory to God,
Taken

"Who can know Him"? ♥ Good points.
"Be it done unto you according to your faith"
It does come down to relationship and communion with The Living God, on a personal level IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Acolyte and Taken

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,925
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes....70 times 7.....I forgive you.

The Point was repeatedly asking God for forgiveness...
Not man forgiving a man.

I believe Sin is Against God, and only God can forgive what is Against God.

I believe forgiveness among men is for trespasses, not sin.
And forgiveness among men trespassing against men is taught as ongoing, over and over again.

I believe SIN AGAINST MAN BY MAN, was applicable to a man UNDER the Hebrew/Jewish Law.
Being something that Hebrews and Jews TAUGHT to Hebrews and Jews.

I find it ODD that Christians in one breath, proclaim they are NOT Under the Law,
And in the next breath,
proclaim men ARE sinning Against them, and
Should be asking them or God for forgivness of what they claim IS a sin.

Men do not forgive men of sin....less you be Under the Hebrew/Jewish Law.

Simply...
God forgives SIN, which is AGAINST God.
That which IS Against God, is DISBELIEF.
That Forgiveness is between God and man.

Men trespass Against men, and is a Forgiveness between men of Trespasses.
That Forgiveness is between men and men.

"IF" a man settles his trespasses Against men, WITH FOGIVENESS, so also will God forgive that mans Trespasses.
That Forgiveness is a GIVEN, without a man Asking God, as God has already revealed it is a given, when the "IF" IS accomplished.

Further:
Not a secret, men are naturally born AGAINST God. Men neither Know, Love or have commited themselves TO God.

A man "IN" Christ Jesus, under a New Covenant, are Once and Forever Forgiven for their Disbelief, and Kept in Belief and Faithfulness to God, By and Through the Indwelling Power of God.
Thus thereafter....WHAT SIN can a man Commit?
And WHAT SIN does a man repeatedly need to ASK God for for forgiveness?
According to Scripture...NONE.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

A man "IN" Christ Jesus...
IS A man; "Born of God"...by and through the Declaration of God who has provided the WAY for a man, (before his physical death) to live "IN" the Holy Risen Body of Christ Jesus, and that man BE Accounted...Cleansed, Sanctified, Justified having been perfected by the Power of God....and thus, why do men ASK for what they have already been given?


Matt.6
  1. [14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
  2. [15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matt.18
  1. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It was religion that made me believe that there was nothing good about people, it made me believe it so much that I've been on my guard for almost two decades. Don't tell me that faith doesn't effect the way you think about people, because it does.

Many things affect the way I think about people, just because I refer to myself as a follower of Christ doesn't mean that I'm not still human. It's when I put my eyes/attention on "people" that I fall. There are as many hypocrites in the church as there are in the grocery store or any place you go. There are liars, fornicators, on and on and on so, I would say that if you are honestly looking for the "Truth", keep your eyes on Jesus, never on what others do or say or act. I also will say that that is an answer to so many who ask about another's faith...they blame their dis-belief on other people; broken, sinful, flawed people. I've made that mistake and used it as an excuse myself one time. Way wrong way to honestly be seeking Truth.

In His Name,
nancy
 
  • Like
Reactions: Acolyte

FatalMoves

Active Member
Feb 9, 2019
237
72
43
50
Brisbane
Faith
Agnostic
Country
Australia
Many things affect the way I think about people, just because I refer to myself as a follower of Christ doesn't mean that I'm not still human. It's when I put my eyes/attention on "people" that I fall. There are as many hypocrites in the church as there are in the grocery store or any place you go. There are liars, fornicators, on and on and on so, I would say that if you are honestly looking for the "Truth", keep your eyes on Jesus, never on what others do or say or act. I also will say that that is an answer to so many who ask about another's faith...they blame their dis-belief on other people; broken, sinful, flawed people. I've made that mistake and used it as an excuse myself one time. Way wrong way to honestly be seeking Truth.

In His Name,
nancy
How absurd.