Calvinism is a Cult

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Jun2u

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Because we know from a careful examination of Ephesians 2:8-9 that faith cannot be a work...for we are saved by faith and not by works. Therefore if faith is a work, and we are saved by it, then we are saved by works.

Your understanding of Ephesians 2:8 is very, very flawed. We are NEVER saved by our faith. We are saved by grace!!!

And both Ephesians 2:9 declares that we are not saved by works and Ephesians 2:8 declares that we are saved by faith. Therefore if I am saved, it is by my faith, and this is not of works; and therefore faith is not a work. Because my faith is what saves me, and if faith is a work then it is not what saves me, since I cannot be saved by works.

Where did you get the notion that your faith is what saved you? Even if it was true (which it is not) therefore, you become the kingmaker in that you saved yourself, and NOT God. SEE HOW SILLY THIS CONCEPT IS?

Then you said, “if faith is a work then it is not what saves me since I cannot be saved by works. RIGHT ON!!!

To God Be The Glory
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Your understanding of Ephesians 2:8 is very, very flawed. We are NEVER saved by our faith. We are saved by grace!!!



Where did you get the notion that your faith is what saved you? Even if it was true (which it is not) therefore, you become the kingmaker in that you saved yourself, and NOT God. SEE HOW SILLY THIS CONCEPT IS?

Then you said, “if faith is a work then it is not what saves me since I cannot be saved by works. RIGHT ON!!!

To God Be The Glory


We are saved by the grace of God through the faith that He bestows on us, through the power of His Spirit. Our proper and humble response is to surrender to the overwhelming tide of love and grace. At that moment, we are justified. We then become "faithful" along with all the others of the "fruits of the Spirit" becoming "sanctified" as the "fruits" become more and more manifest in us. Both faith and grace are gifts "and not of ourselves". All that is required of us is that "sweet surrender" as a response. Who could ever boast about surrendering to God's love?
 

justbyfaith

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We are saved by grace!!!

...through faith!!!

Where did you get the notion that your faith is what saved you?

Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1-2, and John 3:16 (which are some of the most basic verses for our understanding).

For I consider that grace is unto salvation, in Romans 5:2; for that is what we are taught in Ephesians 2:8-9.

Then you said, “if faith is a work then it is not what saves me since I cannot be saved by works. RIGHT ON!!!

And yet faith is what saves me according to the verses mentioned. How else can a man be born again (in your theology), if not through faith in Jesus Christ and what was done for us on the Cross? (You never answered this question for me).
 

Vince

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I studied science and history. History says creation had a beginning. Science says or had to be a cause of that beginning.
How does history say creation had a beginning? Science says there must have been a beginning to the universe we live in now. They are guessing at what happened before it was created.

But the beginning defies science.
No, science just does not know how it began. Jumping to a god did it is a fallacy.

Walls of Jericho falling defied science.
How can you possibly know this? Do you know if the story happened the way the bible describes it or at all?

Science says the areas such as this Sphinx and pyramids has always been arid. But science also shows massive water erosion on both, which they cannot explain.
Not true. Science says it was once lush and populated. Here is just one article.

Sahara Desert Was Once Lush and Populated

The universe has been compared to a ultrahigh precision clock. Something that could not happen by chance.
By who? Highly improbable things happen all the time.

Statisticians have said the existence of life is comparable to a lightning bolt striking a junkyard and when the dust clears a fully functional B-52 sitting there.
How can they know if we don't know the cause of how life formed?

A platypus defies evolution. As do moths and butterflies.
Scientists may not know exactly how metamorphosis evolved. But you seem to think that disproving evolution proves god somehow. It doesn't.



What evidence do you have to support your faith? None.
I don't need evidence because I am not making a claim. I just don't think your evidence is sufficient.
 

Vince

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The fact that Christians disagree on issues only shows the sinfulness of man and the imperfection of human understanding. This is something that the Bible declares is a reality.
I do not dispute the fact the any group of people will disagree on a subject. That is not my point. My point is that if salvation is so important to our eternal life then why did god make it so confusing for Christians to figure out. All sides of the debate just say that the other sides are not reading the bible correctly, or are cults, or are controlled by the devil etc. Why won't god clear this issue up? Whatever you say how people are saved I can go to another person on this site and they will claim a different way. If Christians don't know then how will non Christians know how to be saved? How do you know you are saved?
 

justbyfaith

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I do not dispute the fact the any group of people will disagree on a subject. That is not my point. My point is that if salvation is so important to our eternal life then why did god make it so confusing for Christians to figure out. All sides of the debate just say that the other sides are not reading the bible correctly, or are cults, or are controlled by the devil etc. Why won't god clear this issue up? Whatever you say how people are saved I can go to another person on this site and they will claim a different way. If Christians don't know then how will non Christians know how to be saved? How do you know you are saved?
God is not easy for finite human brains to understand. It takes much theological discussion to be able to come to conclusions that are both acceptable and biblical.

And even if the truth be known, there are simply those who will never receive it:

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

justbyfaith

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How else can a man be born again (in your theology), if not through faith in Jesus Christ and what was done for us on the Cross? (You never answered this question for me).
But please answer this question in this thread as a last thing before we switch over.

cont'd from #1926.
 

Vince

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Selective "understanding" on your part is worthless. I don't see Jesus in you at all no matter how much pride you take in your good-deed-doing. Those who are in Him, and have His indwelling presence, trust Him rather than the minds of men...including your own.
So if I do good you will just call me prideful huh. Ok, but I will still help the homeless, pregnant teens etc. out of compassion and empathy not duty.


Go back and read my post carefully. One of your problems is that you are ignorant of the faith that you say you spent 18 years practicing. But don't feel bad, there's a lot of that among young Christians.
No, This is a self deference mechanism for you. I must not have known anything about the faith that is why I no longer believe. If I truly believed like you I would have been a real christian right? Christians segregate themselves into doctrinal groups, race etc more than secular society does.

You are looking for proof and there is no such thing as proof. You should know, if you know anything about science. There is just evidence that suggests. You are just chasing your tail.
I am not looking for proof only sufficient evidence. Stop lying about what I am looking for please.

No, it just posts reasonable doubt about the whole materialist POV. We are part of a universe created by the Spirit of God through His great power. There is no other explanation.
No, There is no other explanation that YOU can think of. This is a fallacy.

Now, my question remains for you: Are you going to get over yourself and take the leap of faith, or are you going to shrink back under the cover of atheistic fools? I am done going in circles with you--I don't believe that you are honestly seeking faith. What kind of a person goes on a Christian website to goad and harass Christians? Frankly, I have better things to do with my time.
Ok have fun doing your other tings., Nice talking wit you.

The bacteria did not express anything that wasn't already there--not a big deal. Happens all the time in nature. Intelligent Design advocates do not deny that there is such a thing as "selective pressure" (called "survival of the fittest" by some, in the past). Please don't trot out the dopey black moth/white moth presentation--it is just a diversion from the actual questions which evolutionists invariably dodge.
I never said anything about a black moth etc.

Many, many scientists have been creationists, both in the past and even today (although they are apt to be quiet about it for fear that atheists will punish them for their faith). I know several scientists who are also Christians and believe that there was a Creative Intelligence behind all that we see.
What evidence do they have for believing that.

Your "evidence" doesn't answer any real questions and, if you are as bright as you apparently think you are, you would know that. The only real "evidence" that evolutionists tout is the recording of instances of "selective pressure" and Intelligent Design and Creationists already believe that occurs.
I don't care to debate evolution since it does not matter to the existence of a god. Evolution could be false an that would not indicate that a god exists.
 

Vince

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We are imperfect vessels of the Holy Spirit. What is it that you contain?
You people here have admitted that you cannot agree on what faith is, how we are saved etc. and all claim the bible as your source. Why would any non believer know what the truth is?
 

Vince

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God is not easy for finite human brains to understand. It takes much theological discussion to be able to come to conclusions that are both acceptable and biblical.
But this has not happened in 2000 years.

And even if the truth be known, there are simply those who will never receive it:
I agree, bit wouldn't it be better for them to at least to have confidence as to what the truth really is?
 

Lady Crosstalk

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So if I do good you will just call me prideful huh. Ok, but I will still help the homeless, pregnant teens etc. out of compassion and empathy not duty.
Only you have decided that what you do is good. God says, in His word that it is "worthless" (Gr. phaulon) to do works outside of faith. You may feed a beggar and save him from starvation, only to have him eventually die and be in hell for eternity. Christians have an obligation to 1) take care of other believers first and 2) preach the gospel to everyone that they help, including the starving beggar. You may not like it, but that is what Scripture teaches.


No, This is a self-defense mechanism for you.
Thank you, Dr. Freud. I'm sure I have forgotten much more about Freudianism than you ever knew.

I must not have known anything about the faith that is why I no longer believe. If I truly believed like you I would have been a real christian right?
No, the Holy Spirit speaks through the word that He inspired, but we are also dependent on God opening our eyes, ears and heart to that word.
Christians segregate themselves into doctrinal groups, race etc more than secular society does.
There are many things on which Christians agree. Secular groups disagree on many things, even to the point of killing each other over their disagreements--the headlines are full of such.

I am not looking for proof only sufficient evidence. Stop lying about what I am looking for please.
You are an insolent puppy to accuse me of "lying" about what is obvious--that you will NEVER get "sufficient evidence" to inspire your faith. The reasoning of humans will not do it--yours included.

No, There is no other explanation that YOU can think of.
And you are here to play mind games. I do not believe that you are seriously pursuing faith.

Ok have fun doing your other tings., Nice talking wit you.
I don't think you think it was "nice talking" with me at all.


I never said anything about a black moth etc.
I didn't say that you did--I just asked you to avoid bringing it up, as it is a stupid argument that evolutionists make.

What evidence do they have for believing that.
Why don't you ask them? The Discovery Institute has plenty of scientists who would be glad to answer your questions about their faith.

I don't care to debate evolution since it does not matter to the existence of a god.
Then why do you keep bringing it back into the conversation?
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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You people here have admitted that you cannot agree on what faith is, how we are saved etc. and all claim the bible as your source. Why would any non believer know what the truth is?

ALL true Christians believe that we are "saved by grace through faith". There are those who SAY they are Christians but who haven't a clue about the necessity of believing that the Bible is true. But that is only by the Holy Spirit that we are convinced of such things.
 

farouk

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ALL true Christians believe that we are "saved by grace through faith". There are those who SAY they are Christians but who haven't a clue about the necessity of believing that the Bible is true. But that is only by the Holy Spirit that we are convinced of such things.
It's hard to conceive of born again believers arguing that somehow it's their own merits that achieved their salvation.
 

CoreIssue

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How does history say creation had a beginning? Science says there must have been a beginning to the universe we live in now. They are guessing at what happened before it was created.

No, science just does not know how it began. Jumping to a god did it is a fallacy.

How can you possibly know this? Do you know if the story happened the way the bible describes it or at all?

Not true. Science says it was once lush and populated. Here is just one article.

Sahara Desert Was Once Lush and Populated

By who? Highly improbable things happen all the time.

How can they know if we don't know the cause of how life formed?

Scientists may not know exactly how metamorphosis evolved. But you seem to think that disproving evolution proves god somehow. It doesn't.

Everything you said here is a faith statement. You do not know for fact but you believe.



I don't need evidence because I am not making a claim. I just don't think your evidence is sufficient.
 

justbyfaith

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I am not looking for proof only sufficient evidence.

Then consider John 7:17, determine to obey the word of God, and be confident that the Lord will reveal Himself to you as the result. That is what I did; and the Lord was quick to make Himself known to me

I agree, bit wouldn't it be better for them to at least to have confidence as to what the truth really is?

There are those who indeed do have this attitude. But I think that you might consider them to be arrogant and/or misled.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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You people here have admitted that you cannot agree on what faith is, how we are saved etc. and all claim the bible as your source. Why would any non believer know what the truth is?

That's the easiest part--ask God for the truth and He will supply it. Ask Him to wipe away your doubts and He will.
 

Jun2u

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"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." (James 1.5)
James 1:5 is a fundamental principle God has set up however, it must be read in light of Proverbs 25:2
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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James 1:5 is a fundamental principle God has set up however, it must be read in light of Proverbs 25:2

There is no question that God conceals His affairs from the heathen. But, as His children, we can ask Him to reveal the answers to our questions.