ScottA
Well-Known Member
Name calling again.So you are a Calvinists.
How can someone follow one he does not know? (Rhetorical) He can't. But you are a name caller when you have no other leg to stand on.
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Name calling again.So you are a Calvinists.
Name calling again.
How can someone of one he does not know? (Rhetorical) He can't. But you are a name caller when you have no other leg to stand on.
Now you add judgment to name calling. Good for you. But if Calvin stated the scriptures as I have (I wouldn't know), then “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”Just going by the words you use and the statements you make.
Acts 3:19-21
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
What would have happened if the nation, from the leaders on down, have believed in Jesus at Peter's preaching?
Would Jesus have returned? I believe it says here that He would have.
This subject can indeed lead down many avenues of thought. Is OSAS a thing? If not, on what terms? What conditions or criteria is God so intolerant of as to bring about damnation to one previously justified? I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that being justified in a full biblical sense does mean " made right with God"... However, it does not mean "saved". Being justified is but the first step in the way to glory. Salvation does not begin and end at the cross. There's that simple but vital instruction from the Master that says, "abide". And from Paul "endure".
I believe it was possible for the apostles to have been lost, as it is for us, but extremely difficult. The only way anyone could be lost is for one to deliberately and with determination break off the relationship. Because such an act would pain the Father and Son immensely, they will do anything in their power to convince such a one to repent. God has torn down the wall of separation between Himself and man.. It is man who seeks to rebuild that wall through a purposeful and resolute step back into the world of sin. Not just one sin here and there, but a reverse in direction that results in a full lifestyle change. Total apostasy. This is the only ground for divorce. Complete determined unfaithfulness to the marriage vows.
.."...Lose of salvation.." ??
Short answer NO.
Long answer... nnnnn......ooooooooooo!!
My answer remains the same, biblical, and consistent: None who are truly saved will lose their eternal salvation
Isaiah 10:15-20
[15] Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood. [16] Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. [17] And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day; [18] And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth. [19] And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them. [20] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord , the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
Victory, I appreciate your posts, but if I can, let me address something that I'm guessing other members here may be thinking as well but are not saying anything about it: When you post a passage like this, you gotta share how you think it applies to whatever argument you are presenting. Otherwise, it just looks like a trip to some new page in the Bible, and I gotta sit there and try and figure out WHY you quoted it, and what point you were trying to make.
Not upset or anything, just saying it would help if you explained why such passages have relevance in your opinion.
Blessings, sister.
ha fwiw that split the Anabaptist congregations I guess. So we have an ILC example of those who believe they are or can be saved--Amish--and those who believe in a hope of salvation, Mennonite. I think I got that right anywayServes me right for creating a stupid thread on salvation
Absolutely. Of course, the argument of some is that a "true" disciple of Christ could never do this, but as you were alluding to, one of the potential conditions is outright denial of the Lord Jesus Christ, and did not Peter do this?
Judas was a hand chosen disciple, and FAILED to follow the order/steps TO Receive HIS prepared Salvation.
Mingled together seem to be converted-and-nonconverted...can someone fall away before they are born of God while flesh and not Spirit(no new birth). Or can someone be unconverted once converted? You used Peter as the example but Luke 22:31-34 Shows: And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. [33] And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. [34] And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
At least at this point we see Peter was not converted right before satan asked to sift him as wheat. Peter denied Christ when Peter said he was ready to go to death with the Lord. We see one must be converted to enter the kingdom. Matthew 18:3-4 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. [4] Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Oddly or perfectly “you must be humble” and then we are shown Peter suffers a massive blow to his pride of: ‘I’ would never deny you Lord.
Before conversion can what man believes he has obtained be lost...doesn’t the parable of the sower show this: some fell on stony ground, some by the wayside, some the fowls consumed...BUT then there is the good ground which brings forth fruit. There was no good ground before His death and resurrection for the outpouring of the Spirit. God cultivated the heart of man AND God is the one who makes the circumcision of the heart. Can the circumcision God makes be undone? Can a man circumcised in the heart by God be lost when the Lord said HE lost none(0) that were given Him. Where in scripture does it tell us this? Can the temple God builds made without hands be demolished or ‘defiled’ ...He said nothing unclean enters into the kingdom of God. BUT then there are the verses of the anti-christ standing where he shouldn’t.
As far as the disciples...after conversion they are getting whipped and thrown in prison and told to shut their mouths and the cry is for God to give them more boldness, for God to give them more opportunity to not deny but to proclaim His name.
Can not conceive what it must have been like when the Lord said one would betray Him and Judas asked “Master, is it I?” Matthew 26:23-25 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me. [24] The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. [25] Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
John 17:12
[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
So that the scripture might be fulfilled:
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
“Have I not chosen you twelve...” ?
So the answer is still NO!! Poor Judas had his destiny to fulfil . Some man had to do the betraying. The lot fell to him.
Once saved , always saved.
I think that remains to be seen . . .You mean you can interpret Scott speech?
Your beef is apparently with God. I just quoted a very plain scripture which you have failed to explain or acknowledge.
I have been clear. Why do you continue to ask me to repeat? (Rhetorical) It is because you do not want to believe it from me or from God.
What you are saying here is not biblical. All power in heaven and earth belongs to God. But you act as if there is another.
On the contrary, I have explained that what people call "freewill" and a spiritual force other than God, is not that at all...but is the manifestation of both good and evil by God unto judgement. The manifestations of all of history simply show each person as they are, as it is written in the books. Just as God is "I am", so too is every person born. Then comes the end.
Once saved , always saved.