Spirit-Filled Members: Please Comment

[prism]

Well, yes Nathan the prophet didn't speak the words of the Lord. That is the whole point. David went to him as a prophet. Nathan spoke as a prophet, assuming he knew what the Lord wanted. He made a mistake. But he was still a prophet.

Jonah did receive the Word of the Lord, yet his prophecy did not come true. But he was still a prophet.

Stranger

So, according to your strange view, there is a contradiction....

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NKJV
[20] But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.' [21] And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'- [22] when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Nathan and Jonah should have been put to death.

 

[Stranger]

So, according to your strange view, there is a contradiction....

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NKJV
[20] But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.' [21] And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'- [22] when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Nathan and Jonah should have been put to death.

Well, David should have been put to death, but was spared. Nathan presumed upon God, and God corrected him. God didn't spare Jonah from drowning just to kill him later. The prophecy Jonah gave was true. But things occurred that interrupted the fulfilling of that prophecy. Nineveh repented and turned to God.

Again, my point is this, those in the Chuch who have the gift of prophecy, or being a prophet in the Church, are not like the Old Testament prophets. They speak to things within their church. They can speak warnings, and exhortations. They don't give someone a layout what one will experience in the future. And they can make mistakes just as Nathan made a mistake. And they see their warning or exhortation based on a problem they see, did not come to pass due to other things occurring, as with Jonah.

In the Church, the one who truly has the gift of a prophet, is usually not well liked. He is like the building inspector. He comes with a measuring tape checking everything in the Church. This door is in the wrong place. You are 4 feet off. This committee has by-passed one of the steps in making this decision. etc. etc.

Stranger

 

[Bobby Jo]

Jesus was ALWAYS more than a Man since His birth. ...

FALSE. There's NOTHING Jesus did on earth that we can't do, and ARE EXHORTED to do!

Be Transfigured? Moses was. Walk on water? Peter did. Hunger, thirst, feel pain, weep? Yep, we do that too!


What good is a Saviour, if HE doesn't share our infirmities?
Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

What good is a Saviour, if HE doesn't share our infirmities?

You can take that up with God. But it is you who has a totally unscriptural concept of who Jesus was and is. He was GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH. He was God at His conception and He was God at His ascension. At the same time He was Man. This is the Mystery of Godliness (1 Tim 3:16).

 

[prism]

Again, my point is this, those in the Chuch who have the gift of prophecy, or being a prophet in the Church, are not like the Old Testament prophets. They speak to things within their church. They can speak warnings, and exhortations. They don't give someone a layout what one will experience in the future. And they can make mistakes just as Nathan made a mistake. And they see their warning or exhortation based on a problem they see, did not come to pass due to other things occurring, as with Jonah.

We'll just have to agree to disagree agreeably on this one, seeing it isn't a salvific issue.

 

[Bobby Jo]

You can take that up with ...

... exactly what Scripture has already stipulated.

Bobby Jo

 

[emekrus]

I just read through a profound discussion going on at CF over how the gifts of prophecy should be governed in the church. I gave a response just a second ago. Thought it might be something we should talk through as well. Relevant to the future of the end-time church.

Blessings in Christ.
@amadeus, @"ByGrace", @Josho, @Triumph1300, @lforrest, @Heart2Soul, @Episkopos

Help with 1 Cor 14:32

Greetings Brother HIH,

Its been quite a while.

I had spent some time reading through the comments but I couldn't read all...

However, I agree with Marks interpretation of 'the spirits of the prophets being subject to the prophets'.

From the scriptural context, it says every prophet has the capacity to control his self(his spirit) while ministering prophetically.

And by so doing confusion will be avoided.

I believe interpreting it to mean the spirits of the prophets are subject to other prophets may not agree with the context, which is-- orderliness.

Let's see it this way, if the spirits of the prophets are to be subjected to other prophets, do you really think there will be order?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Greetings Brother HIH,

Its been quite a while.

I had spent some time reading through the comments but I couldn't read all...

However, I agree with Marks interpretation of 'the spirits of the prophets being subject to the prophets'.

From the scriptural context, it says every prophet has the capacity to control his self(his spirit) while ministering prophetically.

And by so doing confusion will be avoided.

I believe interpreting it to mean the spirits of the prophets are subject to other prophets may not agree with the context, which is-- orderliness.

Let's see it this way, if the spirits of the prophets are to be subjected to other prophets, do you really think there will be order?

Hi emekrus. Glad you are well.

I actually came away from the discussion thinking that both principles apply in a sense. Yours and marks' view is supported by 1 Corinthians 14:28, at least with regard to a believer's spirit being subject to the believer himself where speaking in tongues is concerned. But the rest of the passage favors the view that ultimately the text is teaching that in the congregation of God, the spirits of the prophets are collectively being subjected to each other, i.e. ultimately they are subject to the Spirit of God operating within them as a group.

I learned something about Greek construction on this one, but the literal reading is ""The spirits of the prophets are being subjected to the prophets." If you'll notice, v. 29 says, "But let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern." In context, "the others" is referring to other prophets, and the next verse adds, "But if another [prophet] sitting by should receive a revelation, let the first be silent." V. 31 then reads, "For you can all prophecy one by one that all may learn, and be exhorted," which is then followed by, "And the spirits of the prophets are being subjected to the prophets."

So in context, the natural reading is that he is discussing the spirits of the prophets being subject to one another. I think it is a reference to letting the peace of God arbitrate among them, as in Colossians 3:15.

But I do think both principles apply in a sense, with the latter being the dominant one in 1 Corinthians 14:29-32.

 

[Nancy]

Greetings Brother HIH,

Its been quite a while.

I had spent some time reading through the comments but I couldn't read all...

However, I agree with Marks interpretation of 'the spirits of the prophets being subject to the prophets'.

From the scriptural context, it says every prophet has the capacity to control his self(his spirit) while ministering prophetically.

And by so doing confusion will be avoided.

I believe interpreting it to mean the spirits of the prophets are subject to other prophets may not agree with the context, which is-- orderliness.

Let's see it this way, if the spirits of the prophets are to be subjected to other prophets, do you really think there will be order?

"Let's see it this way, if the spirits of the prophets are to be subjected to other prophets, do you really think there will be order?"

Lol @emekrus. My guess would be...it would cause even more chaos!

 

[Hidden In Him]

"Let's see it this way, if the spirits of the prophets are to be subjected to other prophets, do you really think there will be order?"

Lol @emekrus. My guess would be...it would cause even more chaos!

I believe in the possibility of a body of believers submitting to the leading of the Holy Spirit collectivity without exterior coercion, but I must admit, for most congregations today it might be a dangerous proposition even attempting it, LoL.

 

[Nancy]

I believe in the possibility of a body of believers submitting to the leading of the Holy Spirit collectivity without exterior coercion, but I must admit, for most congregations today it might be a dangerous proposition even attempting it, LoL.

Hahahaha! You're funny Hidden And, I do agree with your post too, btw.

 

[Bobby Jo]

@emekrus

... v. 29 says, "But let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern." In context, "the others" is referring to other prophets, and the next verse adds, "But if another [prophet] sitting by should receive a revelation, let the first be silent." V. 31 then reads, "For you can all prophecy one by one that all may learn, and be exhorted," which is then followed by, "And the spirits of the prophets are being subjected to the prophets."

So in context, the natural reading is that he is discussing the spirits of the prophets being subject to one another. ... .

Hi emekrus & HIH,

We MUST judge/discern/weigh everything someone tells us, -- whether it's from an Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher. DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING you're told FROM ANY MAN except AFTER checking against SCRIPTURE, and from the HOLY SPIRIT!

To do anything less is foolish,
Bobby Jo

 

[emekrus]

@emekrus


Hi emekrus & HIH,

We MUST judge/discern/weigh everything someone tells us, -- whether it's from an Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher. DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING you're told FROM ANY MAN except AFTER checking against SCRIPTURE, and from the HOLY SPIRIT!

To do anything less is foolish,
Bobby Jo

Dear Bro Bobby,

I definitely agree with you on this. Prophecies should be judged with scriptural standard and with the help of the Holy Spirit--Regardless of whoever is giving it. And that instruction is more of an individual responsibility. That is, the recipients of the prophecies.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes agree.

The first line of your post is what I find lacking in the maturing of the Body.
"Every joint supplying.."

I do remember back in England my husband and I were prayed over by an old Pastor who had groomed us for 10 years to take over from him.
But we felt the Lord leading us to start a church in the town we lived in ( we had moved during those years since we had been saved, to a different place. )
He blessed us and let us go. The church grew quickly ...
We had a lady in her mid 50 who got saved, and because we preached about the gifts in action and every joint supplying...she started to share what "God was giving her".
Some of it was 'way off'.... but when we were just about to tell her that she was not hearing clearly from the Lord, but was sharing a mixture . A mature minister with wisdom , that we had invited in to do some meetings, told us not to squash her....he felt that she had an 'open access' , but, because she was so newly saved, she did not know yet how to discern which was coming from the Lord, and which was not. We would have missed it a mile if we had squashed her.

We took her aside and gave some teaching...
We knew later that if we just "shut her down" just because she was more off than on.....she could never have grown or matured into the clear prophetic.

I do not see nurturing in the body of Christ. I see the body top heavy with ministry who feel that 'they' have all the answers...yet they prepare no one to step into their shoes.

A good teacher is someone who is willing and intent on doing them selves out of a job, for the Body's sake. I think the church is weak because the old guards have passed on , but only weaklings to replace them....because they believed that "they had the word of the Lord for the body"...so they themselves did everything that they felt needed doing in the church.
A lack of Timothy's....

Just my two cents...

You have hit the nail on the head with this post.
Churches have moved so far away from prophets in the church that no one is training them up in their gift and calling.
When God first used me to speak prophetically I was as ignorant as they come to understanding this gift and calling.
My very first time He used me I was interceding and talking with my Father and He told me to get up and go to Becky's house and tell them He wasn't done with them yet. To continue with the ministry He called them to do.
All I knew at that time was to be obedient to whatever He said to do. So I did as He said. When I knocked on their door Becky answered and all the family was sitting at the table. I told her exactly what I was suppose to....she began crying...(I thought, oh no...) then she said, we were just discussing quitting the ministry. In fact we all agreed to do so. This is definitely a Word from God because no one knows about this discussion here tonight.
So they continued a few more years until God told them to retire. They went all over the world ministering during that time.

But there have been other times I missed it. (As you said, the lady who was new just needed training).

 

[farouk]

You have hit the nail on the head with this post.
Churches have moved so far away from prophets in the church that no one is training them up in their gift and calling.
When God first used me to speak prophetically I was as ignorant as they come to understanding this gift and calling.
My very first time He used me I was interceding and talking with my Father and He told me to get up and go to Becky's house and tell them He wasn't done with them yet. To continue with the ministry He called them to do.
All I knew at that time was to be obedient to whatever He said to do. So I did as He said. When I knocked on their door Becky answered and all the family was sitting at the table. I told her exactly what I was suppose to....she began crying...(I thought, oh no...) then she said, we were just discussing quitting the ministry. In fact we all agreed to do so. This is definitely a Word from God because no one knows about this discussion here tonight.
So they continued a few more years until God told them to retire. They went all over the world ministering during that time.

But there have been other times I missed it. (As you said, the lady who was new just needed training).

I do think it's good to concentrate on Scripture exposition in the light of the sufficiency of Scripture.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... When you start to gather others around you to go against your pastor, I don't think this is right. If all is done in accordance with the rules and regulations of the church, then fine. ...

Hey Stranger,

Didn't mean to ignore you. Sorry for the late response!

Ummmmmmm, no. We are NOT to follow the "regulations of the church". Our guidance is Scripture. And where Scripture tells us not to hold any man above any other man, we hold church leadership in that same regard. So if a pastor/etc. does something wrong, we're there to help correct the situation. If the pastor/etc. refuses to hear our individual council, then get two or three others. And if the pastor/etc. refuses the group, then dismiss the pastor/etc.

It really can't be anymore clear than that, except when "church rules" are thrown in as a diversion/distraction/ruse/excuse.

Bobby Jo

 

[Helen]

I do think it's good to concentrate on Scripture exposition in the light of the sufficiency of Scripture.

Because you are a fearful old Cessationists .

 

[Heart2Soul]

I do think it's good to concentrate on Scripture exposition in the light of the sufficiency of Scripture.

I know scripture is important...but sometimes God needs to speak to us in our personal decisions....especially if we are fixing to make a major mistake. And I know those people could hear from God as well but for some reason they weren't hearing accurately concerning their ministry. (Maybe finances or something was blocking their faith).

 

[Stranger]

Hey Stranger,

Didn't mean to ignore you. Sorry for the late response!

Ummmmmmm, no. We are NOT to follow the "regulations of the church". Our guidance is Scripture. And where Scripture tells us not to hold any man above any other man, we hold church leadership in that same regard. So if a pastor/etc. does something wrong, we're there to help correct the situation. If the pastor/etc. refuses to hear our individual council, then get two or three others. And if the pastor/etc. refuses the group, then dismiss the pastor/etc.

It really can't be anymore clear than that, except when "church rules" are thrown in as a diversion/distraction/ruse/excuse.

Bobby Jo

Sure you did. The farther you could get away from post #(239) the better. That's why you just quote one sentence instead of it all. Sorry partner, these are all old tricks people play on forums.

I've listened to you. You are of no help. You have a rebellious nature. Take it for what it is worth. Just remember, Davids attitude and Absaloms attitude You represent Absalom. Not David.

Stranger

 

[Bobby Jo]

Quote: Bobby Jo:

Hey Stranger,
Didn't mean to ignore you. Sorry for the late response!​

QUOTE: Stranger

Sure you did.​

Yeah, I'm a liar, and everyone's uncivil, and everyone's a jerk. But you're none of these.
Some guys like being a woman, -- having a man over them!


Whew,
Bobby Jo