Once Saved Always Saved Garbage Teaching!!
- Thread starter DoveSpirit05
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
This unfortunately is semantics. Imagine the principle at stake is the purity of water from a spring. You cannot see the source but you can see the stream that comes out. What matters is its purity, at the moment. If it becomes contaminated long term it is lost. The strength of the spring is its ability to flow pure.
Temporary cleanliness is worthless. Eternity is eternal, without end. We look on Jesus and love like a game of fake, yet God regards the issues 100% important. King Saul compromised one command, lost being King. Moses did not honour God, could not enter the promised land, Israel would not go to war, sent into the desert.
These things matter, eternally. Security is not God's way, love and honouring Him are. He is the Lord. He is the King.
The sad thing for me is I see the reason why either side hold there position. It is about anxiousness and safety.
Jesus is not safe, or nice, or cosy. Dipped in blood, horrendous evil meeting ultimate purity are worlds apart. Dying in repentance and being raised to life is no spark of life which is extinguished. It is an eternal flame that never goes out, it is about love overcoming, the flesh being defeated.
I know brothers who have fallen into adultery, abandoning wives yet claiming they knew love. Absurd. I know the temptation and the illusion of desire. Love and faithfulness matter so much more. Eternity is not the flesh or its indulgence. God bless you.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Don't you know you've been blinded to the truth? You're so twisted I'm going to have to put you on ignore. I no longer want to see what you and your pet snake want to say.
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Last edited:
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
No because I know if I continue to walk in the light Christ continues to wash away all sins. 1 John 1:7.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Many over look the present tense of verbs for it undermines the idea of unconditional salvation.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
As long as one conditionally continues to doeth the will of the Lord he will abide forever. If one quits doing the will of the Lord He will become lost.
justbyfaith said:
1 Peter 1:5 "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
Kept through faith. As long as one CONDITIONALLY has faith he is kept by God. Those that cast aside their faith are not kept by God.
So the accountability is upon the Christian to 'persevere'. God helps the Christian to persevere, for example 1 Corinthians 10:13 God provides the Christian a way to escape but it is still the Christian's responsibility to take what GOd has provided.
Ooops.
We don't agree and neither would anyone else that studied Genesis and the N.T.
1. We cannot say that it's satan's fault because then we'd just be able to blame everything on his presence and temptation and all responsibility would be taken away from us personally.
2. We cannot say that Eve was to blame because God did not make the Edenic Covenant with Eve, but God made it with Adam...and so Adam was responsible for maintaining the human part of the covenant...which he did not.
3. Even the N.T. teaches us that it was Adam that caused the fall:
Romans 5:12
Through one MAN sin entered into the world.
Eve was tempted and deceived, but it was Adam who represented mankind...who God made first, and with whom God made the Edenic Covenant.
Romans 5:17, 18 states that through ONE sin entered, it does not say by two persons...it uses the singular.
Last edited:
Nondenom40
Active Member
Whats the name of this group. Because from the rest of your post it sounds like they have zero desire for Gods word which is replete with examples of how and why we should bear fruit. And Romans 12:1 specifically says we should be living sacrifices to be acceptable to God...So while i don't doubt your interactions with these people, they are fringe at best and completely unredeemed at worse.
This only furthers my suggestion that they have no real concept of God, Jesus or the gospel. Firing off expletives is the exact wrong response to a challenge to the faith.
Again, treating brothers and sisters in Christ as the enemy? This should raise huge red flags. So far you haven't made the case these people are even christian. So if they live as antinomians, who cares? They aren't christian to begin with. To lump them in with every other true believer that does hold to election or perseverance of the saints is simply an error.
I don't know what a 'gun toting right winger' has to do with anything but okay. So far you have utterly failed to convince me these people even deserve the name christian. What else ya got?
Nondenom40
Active Member
You read the same post i just responded to. Are you at all convinced by what was said that this group represents any sect of true christianity? There isn't the first thing in what was said about this group that would make anyone think they are true believers. Anyone that believes you can sit back on your laurels and wait for the second coming don't have a clue. And its not the fault of eternal security of the believer. Its the fault of poor theology in general and twisting scripture or ignoring the mountain of verses that speak directly to bearing fruit or working for the kingdom...i.e. Eph 2:10 et al.
Your conclusions are presumptuous. The history of these people is the evangelical church and their views are a version
of evangelical theology with some slight tweaks, and a few exaggerations. The language used is very biblical and the foundations
are taught by many evangelical groups, OSAS, grace is given, we are not capable of walking in purity and righteousness ever
before we meet the Lord at the resurrection. We have a pure Holy Spirit who dwells within and we are forgiven all our sins past,
present, future, and while sinning we are already forgiven, we are eternal beings in Christ who can never fall.
So for us, they appear as christian, they found churches and preach, and many believers may even go to their churches and
be unaware of how unchristian this is, while it appears to be from scripture.
The main indicator, as here on this forum, is the blatant antagonism against those who walk with Jesus. So are you going to
call these folk unbelievers, because they will claim the same about you.
Nondenom40
Active Member
You still didn't name this group you said you were in conversation with. Why not? Mormons do all the stuff you just listed. Are they christian? Jw's? Acting all pious and using the bible has been going on since day one of the church. It means nothing. When you describe as you did the nature of those people, what they said, how they acted, what they believed its a no brainer that as i said they are way out on the fringe or pretenders. Wolves in sheeps clothing. And acting the way you say they do, they don't even look like sheep. No, they do not appear christian per your own description of them.
You spent years talking to these people, so who are they?
Davy
Well-Known Member
Apostle Paul gave an example in Hebrews 6 of a believer turning away from Christ, which is a lesson against the OSAS thinking...
Heb 6:1-11
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
This isn't about the basic principles of Christian doctrine, this subject he's getting ready to cover is about something that is unforgivable.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
For those who have experienced the heavenly calling and the gifts of The Holy Spirit of the world to come, they have no excuse if they should fall away from Christ, because for them to try to repent after doing that is like crucifying Christ all over again and putting Him to an open shame.
This is a very serious warning brethren against falling away, especially if you have a calling with spiritual gifts. An example of this type of falling away would be to renounce Christ, or worship another in His place (like the coming Antichrist).
Once one is shown that enlightenment, tasted of the heavenly gift, made partaker of The Holy Spirit, tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, then there is no excuse for that one if they should fall away after that. It's about accountability and proof. To experience those things is God's direct proofs to the believer so that there is no longer any doubt. It is the level of sureness that those in Christ's future Millennial reign will see, and thus seal their accountability to either being in Christ, or being cast into the lake of fire.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Paul gives an example in nature of how natural things compare with this, i.e., even thorns and briers that come forth and produce nothing good are cursed and to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward His name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
KJV
Paul then admonishes the brethren not in that situation of falling away to remain dilligent unto the end, i.e. when Jesus comes. That is to say, they are capable of this unforgiveable sin, but he was persuaded of better things for them involving salvation.
Heb 6:1-11
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
This isn't about the basic principles of Christian doctrine, this subject he's getting ready to cover is about something that is unforgivable.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
For those who have experienced the heavenly calling and the gifts of The Holy Spirit of the world to come, they have no excuse if they should fall away from Christ, because for them to try to repent after doing that is like crucifying Christ all over again and putting Him to an open shame.
This is a very serious warning brethren against falling away, especially if you have a calling with spiritual gifts. An example of this type of falling away would be to renounce Christ, or worship another in His place (like the coming Antichrist).
Once one is shown that enlightenment, tasted of the heavenly gift, made partaker of The Holy Spirit, tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, then there is no excuse for that one if they should fall away after that. It's about accountability and proof. To experience those things is God's direct proofs to the believer so that there is no longer any doubt. It is the level of sureness that those in Christ's future Millennial reign will see, and thus seal their accountability to either being in Christ, or being cast into the lake of fire.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Paul gives an example in nature of how natural things compare with this, i.e., even thorns and briers that come forth and produce nothing good are cursed and to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward His name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
KJV
Paul then admonishes the brethren not in that situation of falling away to remain dilligent unto the end, i.e. when Jesus comes. That is to say, they are capable of this unforgiveable sin, but he was persuaded of better things for them involving salvation.
ND, I don't believe the other member, @FollowHim meant that there is A SPECIFIC GROUP that believes what he has stated.
My experience is that there are persons, perhaps, in any church group that may believe what he said. Also, it DOES seem that some churches encourage this belief even though it is not plainly stated.
Charles Stanley once said on a televised sermon, that once someone is saved, that person is saved forever NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO OR HOW THEY LIVE. Someone hearing this might very well decide to return to their previous sinful life since they were new Christians or were not well trained.
It's not that the congregation of these churches are taught that one can sin all they want to and still be saved...but this is the message that is HEARD by some persons.
Some call this easy believism or cheap grace.
Twisting of scripture, as you said, is also a good way of saying this.
AND, some say that we are not required to work or do good deeds.
I've heard that it's a sin to try and HELP GOD to be saved since He has already done everything.
You can post pages of verses and they are not accepted.
So, yes, I can confirm what the other member is saying and I believe that you also will hear this as you spend more time on these forums.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
This is what Christianity has been doing for almost two millenniums, picking sides. Try arguing that point! There are two long sets of valid scriptures that say, you can sin, and a list of valid scriptures that say you cannot sin, also and…there are a full list of valid scriptures that say that salvation is solid…eternal…and a full set of valid scriptures that say you can loose your salvation. It is funny to watch these people as they argue their side, which means they deny the other scriptures….but both parties will stick their heads in the sand and say, the whole Bible is inerrant and without error! Believing one thing and say another….it is called hypocrisy. One of the more lengthy discussions Christ spoke of. The only way to make the Bible whole is to find the truth that harmonizes these scriptures. No…you cannot have your cake and eat it too. So if you believe the scriptures speak the truth, what logic is there to pick a side. Is this so hard to understand? Is the Bible divided? If you have to give up or do not care, at least respect one another’s beliefs.
All of these scriptures, when you set them against each other and when you explain them away with klondike explanations, you put all of the scriptures to question, you harm the meaning of other scriptures The Bible was written obviously in such a fashion that different interpretations can be read from it, when you take the stance that only your interpretation is right, you hurt Christianity. We are all Christians and we are divided enough. The wolves are circling, it would be best to stand together…..even sheep know this.
Last edited:
More finger-pointing, with three fingers pointing back at you.
See what I mean?
If our eternity is not secure, then we may go for 10,000 years in heaven and then find ourselves in the lake of fire because we messed up somehow.
This does not make for a very good prospect for anyone. Eventually, everyone might fall; and no one would be in heaven.
One has to be wrong GH.
And, as I've said before....this shouldn't be a point of contention IF we're living for God and following His commandments as best we can.
The problem is that many misuse the scriptures that seem to point to the fact that salvation is eternal and cannot be lost.
Using scripture is valid.
What did Jesus mean in Luke 15:24?
Jesus said that the son was dead and had come to life AGAIN.
Which means that the son:
HAD LIFE (saved)
BECAME DEAD (lost)
CAME TO LIFE AGAIN (saved)
I agree that scripture must be reconciled and it usually is.
But how does on reconcile unconditional security vs conditional security?
Then it wasn't for ever. It was only temporary.
But I agree that the person who abides for ever, will continue to do the will of the Lord for ever.
When a man receives the Holy Spirit he receives faith. Faith continues to be a fruit of the Holy Spirit. So then, being sealed with the Holy Spirit means that faith is instilled in the person through the Holy Ghost. And because they are sealed by the Holy Ghost, they are sealed in faith.
Last edited:
Similar threads
