The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[user]

Show me ONE example in the NT of a detailed Baptim.

You can't find one because it DOESN'T exist.

The point was, NOBODY was baptized in the name Father, Son, Holy Ghost. However, we see baptisms in Jesus name. And, scriptures that they came up out of the water (no sprinkling).

God Bless!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't believe this...and I am a Trinitarian. Look deeper...

Soooooo, you don’t believe that the Son is God – yet you “believe” in the Trinity.

Explain the Trinity . . .

If Peter was obedient....why did he baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins instead of Jesus' prescribed formula in Matthew 28:19?

He Baptized as he was commanded by Christ in Matt. 28:19:
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 is talking about the AUTHORITY of Christ.

These two quotes make me think of some verses in Matthew 7...

Mat 7:15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19, Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them

That’s just another cop-out.
When you can’t argue the point – attack your opponent . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The point was, NOBODY was baptized in the name Father, Son, Holy Ghost. However, we see baptisms in Jesus name. And, scriptures that they came up out of the water (no sprinkling).

God Bless!

Those examples where they “came up out of the water” took place in LIVING WATER (river, stream, etc.) The Didache makes provisions for when there is NO living water.

HOW do you suppose all of 3000 people in Jerusalem were Baptized on Pentecost??
There is no river that runs through Jerusalem.

And not ONE Baptism is shown in detail.
Try again . . .

 

[Ezra]

Did you know repentance is a work?

ok so its a type work The full biblical definition of repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of action. the title of your post reads
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever Grace is NOT myth . it is easy believism what did paul say to the jailer who asked Good sirs what must i do to be saved?????
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and what thou shalt be saved.. pretty simple don't ya think .. i mean even a young child can be saved . in fact in many cases they will have more faith than adults.so if your saying we are not saved by grace alone your wrong !!!

Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
notice the words in red by Grace through faith . now if your suggestion that grace be used as a license to sin paul covered that in romans 6
Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

but in any case your legalistic boat don't float

 

[Ezra]

I see, you come in the name of Jesus and let folks guess which name you come in.

Kinda reminds me of the church of Christ silent baptism. They kinda figure words don’t matter since God reads their minds.

This eliminates the name used in Acts 3 for healing the lame man. Maybe Peter just thought Jesus name and the Pharisees read his mind, huh?

apostolic oneness ?

 

[Ezra]

The "not of works" excludes works of merit one might do to try and merit salvation and if one could earn salvation by his works then he could boast about that. EPh 2:9 therefore does exclude works ofmeirt but does NOT exclude obedience to the will of God for ALL the disobedient will be lost. No example in the Bible of God justifying a person who continues in disobedience to Him.
1 John 3:10 he who continues in unrighteousness (disobedience) continues to not be of God. Romans 6:17-18 one obeys from the heart, then justified/freed from sin.

amen

 

[justbyfaith]

Soooooo, you don’t believe that the Son is God – yet you “believe” in the Trinity.

Explain the Trinity . . .

See posts #1-#5 in the following thread (especially post #5):

True Trinity.

btw, I do believe that the Son is God.

He Baptized as he was commanded by Christ in Matt. 28:19:
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 is talking about the AUTHORITY of Christ.

So you say.

 

[justbyfaith]

That’s just another cop-out.
When you can’t argue the point – attack your opponent . . .

What I said is no attack on you...unless it be true that you are a bearer of bad fruit...in which case we would know by that, that you are a false prophet come to us in sheep's clothing...

 

[Truther]

apostolic oneness ?

Sorta. I was a oneness teacher for over 30 years. Rethinking a few things these days.

 

[Truther]

ok so its a type work The full biblical definition of repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of action. the title of your post reads
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever Grace is NOT myth . it is easy believism what did paul say to the jailer who asked Good sirs what must i do to be saved?????
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and what thou shalt be saved.. pretty simple don't ya think .. i mean even a young child can be saved . in fact in many cases they will have more faith than adults.so if your saying we are not saved by grace alone your wrong !!!

Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
notice the words in red by Grace through faith . now if your suggestion that grace be used as a license to sin paul covered that in romans 6
Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

but in any case your legalistic boat don't float

You skipped Acts completely. Those passages are not for sinners, but saints. This is mail theft in progress.

 

[Truther]

Jesus is also God

Now, explain the Verse. . .

Just did.
Do you agree with he Bible that Jesus has a God right now?

 

[Truther]

I don't believe this...and I am a Trinitarian. Look deeper...



We are not saved by works/obedience. We are saved by an attitude of faith which is an inclination towards obedience.



If Peter was obedient....why did he baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins instead of Jesus' prescribed formula in Matthew 28:19?






These two quotes make me think of some verses in Matthew 7...

Mat 7:15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19, Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.



I would tend to disagree with that statement; since repentance is unto salvation; and salvation is "not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

John said to bring forth works unto repentance.
Question, can repentance be separated from works?

 

[BreadOfLife]

The point was, NOBODY was baptized in the name Father, Son, Holy Ghost. However, we see baptisms in Jesus name. And, scriptures that they came up out of the water (no sprinkling).

God Bless!

Uhhhhh, no, we don't.

We don't see the details of a SINGLE Baptism in the NT. We don't see anybody reciting the the words of Baptism and we don't see immersion.
We surmise from the text that they may have immersed. We know from history that they did.

The Didache allows for immersion AND pouring.
Scripture is SILENT on the matter.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What I said is no attack on you...unless it be true that you are a bearer of bad fruit...in which case we would know by that, that you are a false prophet come to us in sheep's clothing...

I've done nothing but present the Biblical truth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just did.
Do you agree with he Bible that Jesus has a God right now?

No, you didn't, so don't ask me a question until you are prepared to answer mine first.

Jesus is a man AND He is God (Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13).
So, you need to explain Matt.24:36 that verse in this light.

That's how a conversation works . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

Question, can repentance be separated from works?

repentance is a change of direction that will result in good works; but is not a work in and of itself (except of the Holy Spirit on the heart of a man).

I've done nothing but resent the Biblical truth.

You can say that again!

 

[Truther]

repentance is a change of direction that will result in good works; but is not a work in and of itself (except of the Holy Spirit on the heart of a man).



You can say that again!

Since you say that God does all the salvation works, does God bring forth fruit unto repentance for us?

 

[Truther]

No, you didn't, so don't ask me a question until you are prepared to answer mine first.

Jesus is a man AND He is God (Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13).
So, you need to explain Matt.24:36 that verse in this light.

That's how a conversation works . . .

It says that Jesus, a man, did not know the day or hour. Only the Father(His God) knows.
So, do you agree that Jesus has a God per Eph 1, John 20 and Rev 3:12 etc.?

 

[Truther]

I've done nothing but resent the Biblical truth.

I believe you here

 

[justbyfaith]

Since you say that God does all the salvation works, does God bring forth fruit unto repentance for us?

I'd be interested in your answer to this question.