Where did God come from? - The answer to a frequent question

[Paul Christensen]

Know I do not know the name...Left for the States by then....sorry...APAK out

He was a real character - went to the same Pentecostal church I went to. I was working for the Post Office at the time, and did relieving work at Sanson, and keeping a low profile. He came to the counter, spotted me, and told everyone in a very loud voice, "Paul Christensen is the loudest Pentecostal you will ever hear. Praise the Lord!" I wanted to sink through the floor! But then Peter loved the Lord and was very enthusiastic about it. But, he had an Open Brethren background, and never participated in any of the wacky stuff. He was just loud and extroverted in the way he worshiped God and related to others. I think he has gone to be with the Lord. I miss him, his love and his joy, which were characteristic of him.

 

[DNB]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

God the Father is light and energy. Light and energy cannot be created or destroyed, it merely changes form throughout the eternal ages. God the Father, though, stays the same, but his energy and light has changed form to create many things.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

God is soon going to disassociate the mass of the universe into the light and energy from whence it was forged and do something else with it. Judging by the size of the universe that is going to be a lot of E/c2 to play with!

Sounds a bit like blasphemy to me?
God is neither light nor energy, but Spirit. Yes, he resides in unapproachable light, but He Himself is invisible.
And as far as energy goes, He is omnipotent, but more so, He is love, and love is the indescribable force that compels movement and action.
God is ineffable, thus, light & energy seem to be a bit too physical and tangible, to viably be able to ascribe them to the ontology of God.

 

[rockytopva]

Sounds a bit like blasphemy to me?
God is neither light nor energy, but Spirit. Yes, he resides in unapproachable light, but He Himself is invisible.
And as far as energy goes, He is omnipotent, but more so, He is love, and love is the indescribable force that compels movement and action.
God is ineffable, thus, light & energy seem to be a bit too physical and tangible, to viably be able to ascribe them to the ontology of God.

For our God is a consuming fire.- Hebrews 12:29

 

[Dcopymope]

For our God is a consuming fire.- Hebrews 12:29

With an actual perceptible form to boot according to Jesus, and more like that of a man specifically, like his image bearers, according to Ezekiel.

(John 5:37-38) "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. {38} And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not."

(Ezekiel 1:26-28) "¶ And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. {27} And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. {28} As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake."

Some would say that the "fire" being referred to is not a literal fire, but some type of supernatural fire, one that cannot be extinguished with water. I don't have a problem with that interpretation, its basic common sense.

 

[DNB]

For our God is a consuming fire.- Hebrews 12:29

Wow, look at that, it says it right there, God is fire?

And to think, I thought that he was transcendent Spirit, outside of space and time, and that his dimensions could not be circumscribed?
What was I thinking?

But look, not only is He fire, He is also rock.
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. (Psalm 18:2)

But, look what else, He has hands too, ....what?
The Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring out the people of Israel from among them.” (Exodus 7:5)

And arms?
You crushed Rahab like a carcass; you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm. (Psalm 89:10b)

You're not going to believe this, but feet also?
Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me,and what is the place of my rest? (Isaiah 66:1)

Well, I feel stupid now!

 

[DNB]

With an actual perceptible form to boot according to Jesus, and more like that of a man specifically, like his image bearers, according to Ezekiel.
Some would say that the "fire" being referred to is not a literal fire, but some type of supernatural fire, one that cannot be extinguished with water. I don't have a problem with that interpretation, its basic common sense.

Sounds like blasphemy to me?

 

[Dcopymope]

Sounds like blasphemy to me?

Well, no actually, it just sounds like what Jesus and the prophets plainly stated themselves. I didn't add anything to what they clearly witnessed. I quoted them verbatim from top to bottom. You can't claim that God is "invisible" when his own son claims the exact opposite, that he has a form. If he has a form, then he is not "invisible". This is pure common sense, occam's razor. When God stated that he made us in his image, after his likeness, he meant exactly that. Scripture gives next to zero reason to believe otherwise. I made a thread about this ages ago explaining this in pain staking detail. All that effort obviously fell on deaf ears of course, with people only believing what their itching ears want to hear. I have no intention of repeating myself in vain on this issue yet again. You'll either let the book speak for itself, or you won't, its between you and God.

 

[DNB]

Well, no actually, it just sounds like what Jesus and the prophets plainly stated themselves. I didn't add anything to what they clearly witnessed. I quoted them verbatim from top to bottom. You can't claim that God is "invisible" when his own son claims the exact opposite, that he has a form. If he has a form, then he is not "invisible". This is pure common sense, occam's razor. When God stated that he made us in his image, after his likeness, he meant exactly that. Scripture gives next to zero reason to believe otherwise. I made a thread about this ages ago explaining this in pain staking detail. All that effort obviously fell on deaf ears of course, with people only believing what their itching ears want to hear. I have no intention of repeating myself in vain on this issue yet again. You'll either let the book speak for itself, or you won't, its between you and God.

But, by being such a hyper-literalist, which is an entirely incompetent hermeneutical principle, you defy the axiomatic attributes of God. As in, his omnipresence, his incorporeality, his transcendence, his immutability, etc...
Please tell me that you see the conflict?
Thus, one is obligated to take your passages figuratively, or metaphorically, obviously?
You're understanding of Occam's Razor, is extremely antithetical to it's intended meaning. It cannot be applied without the cooperation of wisdom.

 

[Dcopymope]

But, by being such a hyper-literalist, which is an entirely incompetent hermeneutical principle, you defy the axiomatic attributes of God. As in, his omnipresence, his incorporeality, his transcendence, his immutability, etc...
Please tell me that you see the conflict?
Thus, one is obligated to take your passages figuratively, or metaphorically, obviously?
You're understanding of Occam's Razor, is extremely antithetical to it's intended meaning. It cannot be applied without the cooperation of wisdom.

..........I am not in any way obligated to take a passage as an allegory if it isn't explained that way. When God said we are made after his likeness, its never explained away as anything else but literal. When God himself says he has hands, a face, and allows Moses to see only the back of his form, its never explained away as allegory. When scripture plainly states that Moses saw the similitude of God face to face in the tabernacle, its never explained away as allegory.

When Jesus said he has a form, he never explained it away as some figure of speech or parable. When Ezekiel gives his description of God on his throne, he never explains it away as symbolic of anything. He flat out states "this is the appearance of the likeness of God". In a court of law, when someone plainly states what they witnessed, you twisting his words into a metaphor would never fly with a Jury that has half a brain. Now I'm not gonna sit here wasting any more my time with you on this. At the end of the day, time always tells the truth, so believe whatever you want.

 

[DNB]

..........I am not in any way obligated to take a passage as an allegory if it isn't explained that way. When God said we are made after his likeness, its never explained away as anything else but literal. When God himself says he has hands, a face, and allows Moses to see only the back of his form, its never explained away as allegory. When scripture plainly states that Moses saw the similitude of God face to face in the tabernacle, its never explained away as allegory.

When Jesus said he has a form, he never explained it away as some figure of speech or parable. When Ezekiel gives his description of God on his throne, he never explains it away as symbolic of anything. He flat out states "this is the appearance of the likeness of God". In a court of law, when someone plainly states what they witnessed, you twisting his words into a metaphor would never fly with a Jury that has half a brain. Now I'm not gonna sit here wasting any more my time with you on this. At the end of the day, time always tells the truth, so believe whatever you want.

The art of exegesis is understanding when and where, a particular literary convention is being employed within a pericope.
If God is both omnipresent, and transcendent beyond the universe that he created, one has to ask them self exactly how big is God's face, arms or legs? Does God also have a stomach so that he needs to nourish Himself, and then subsequently, defecate? Must He cut his hair and trim His nails on occasion? How big are His eye brows, the size of Chicago, Canada or Africa, maybe our solar system or some other galaxy or constellation?
You sound ridiculous, ...oh, and did I mention, verging on blasphemy!

 

[Truth OT]

God is neither light nor energy, but Spirit.

It seems that the term spirit is at times more of a non-descriptive term than it is a descriptive one. I liken it to the scientific term 'dark energy' as they both are terms used to identify the unknown and they do not bring to light any properties of the thing(s) it identifies. An working definition of spirit is that of an unseen force of power and this definition can be applied to illustrate when something is having an effect on reality, yet outside of the visible effect, that something is unidentified, not understood, and unknown.

 

[ScottA]

Please demonstrate that such a thing exists. Define what it is and how you know as well. Thanks.

If you want a demonstration, you are asking the wrong person. Only God can do that, and He has. All the universe is a demonstration, and then He also gives personal demonstrations through prophesies, signs, and visions. If you can perceive it, if you seek Him, you will find what you are looking for. But He has not promised when, but rather has demonstrated that He decides when or if He will before you die. With your attitude and skepticism, it is unlikely that you will get any preview.

The greater reality of God is like one who creates a digital internet, space where there is no space, time, or matter, and then translates what is good in His own eyes to His own actual reality. As for a definition, words can only offer a likeness, for it is not of this world.

I know because I am one of those who has been taken to that higher plain of existence and shown a vision of what is actually real, shown a reality that defines this so called reality as no reality at all. Without which I would simply have to look around me and see things not adding up as they do daily in this would be reality, to know that there is something more. But that is just me and my God given perspective. Your God given abilities may not do anything for you in the area of knowing there is a God. Still, at the end of the day, this would be reality should be full of holes and yet having clues of that actual reality of God...even if it take your whole life.

Welcome to reality!

 

[Truth OT]

e has not promised when

He has promised nothing. Men CLAIMING to speak for Him have put words in the very mouth of God.

I know because I am one of those who has been taken to that higher plain of existence and shown a vision of what is actually real,.....

Interesting claim. I wonder whether your perception of this occurrence and the reality of such are one and the same. After all, the heart is deceitful above all things..........

 

[ScottA]

He has promised nothing. Men CLAIMING to speak for Him have put words in the very mouth of God.



Interesting claim. I wonder whether your perception of this occurrence and the reality of such are one and the same. After all, the heart is deceitful above all things..........

You are commenting from a position of complete ignorance. You bring "nothing" to the table and that is what becomes your accusation. Your own words betray you. It's nothing but psychological projection.

And out of that same nothing mind you are also "CLAIMING" to know about other "men", about things you are not qualified to comment. More psychological projection.

You "demonstrate" yourself. The joke is on you.

 

[Justadude]

I know because I am one of those who has been taken to that higher plain of existence and shown a vision of what is actually real, shown a reality that defines this so called reality as no reality at all.

If you don't mind, could you describe how that happened? I'm interested because another person once told me something similar, and I'm curious to see how your experience compares to hers.

 

[Truth OT]

You are commenting from a position of complete ignorance.

I guess I'm in the Matrix then. Why'd you come back in since you were chosen to be pulled out? It must be hard living in a world you know is not real and being forced to abide by it's constraints knowing full well a greater reality exists.

 

[ScottA]

If you don't mind, could you describe how that happened? I'm interested because another person once told me something similar, and I'm curious to see how your experience compares to hers.

After a wonderful, non-religious childhood, marriage, and beginning of a career...all the things one would hope for in life as a young person, my business was broken into three consecutive times causing a great financial burden that destroyed my marriage and broke apart our happy home with two wonderful children. Life continued in a very curious downward spiral while I personally broke records in my field with such contrast that I could not pass it all off as merely coincidental. Over the course of time and at the end of my rope, having exhausted all my other efforts, having nothing to go on, no prior introduction, no indoctrination of any kind, as I lie in my bed unable to fall to sleep one night, I began to talk to a God I never knew--and lo and behold, He answered.

Instantly, I was caught up in the spirit above the earth in the clouds, but not just anywhere. I was looking down upon the area that I had threatened to go--yes, I threatened God. Next, there was an innumerable crowd of people like waves upon the sea as far as I could see, and they began to stir in panic. I turned from the crowd to find a great wall of ice covering a huge door. As the crowd began to push, I began to beat on the door with my fists, and great chunks of ice came falling down, and the door opened. Looking up into the clouds through the door I saw a narrow stairway. At the top, was my father. And, no, I never had father issues--I had a wonderful father and childhood. Then I was half way up the stairway looking back to the door and in through the doorway came infants, little babies wrapped in little white blankets. I reached out my hands and took the first one and turned and passed it to my father's open arms, then turned back and did it over and over and over again.

Then, just as suddenly as it had all come about, I was back in my body in my bed--so startled that I shot straight up running and landed at the foot of my bed in a cold sweat. Bewildered, I began repeating over and over in my mind what had just happened, trying to understand: "I opened a door and passed babies to my father in the sky"...over and over. I finally eased back up and drifted off to sleep. When I awoke I was fresh and experienced a peace I had never experienced before.

Then everything in my life changed. You could say, I was changed, and I was. My career changed, my relationship changed, and I moved. Soon after I temporarily stayed with my brother and in the room where they put me up, I found a bible. I seemed to be drawn to it. I began to read it and couldn't put it down, barely stopping to eat or sleep. As I read, the words confirmed my experience, and my experience confirmed the words; and by this I knew that the Author of each was one and the same.

 

[ScottA]

I guess I'm in the Matrix then. Why'd you come back in since you were chosen to be pulled out? It must be hard living in a world you know is not real and being forced to abide by it's constraints knowing full well a greater reality exists.

I had asked questions, and the questions were answered. I didn't ask to be taken out, but was taken only temporarily to answer my questions. In fact, I told God that I knew I was at a place where I imagined that people took their own life, but that I wouldn't do it, that if He wanted my life He could have it. And now He has it.

The best is yet to come.

 

[DNB]

It seems that the term spirit is at times more of a non-descriptive term than it is a descriptive one. I liken it to the scientific term 'dark energy' as they both are terms used to identify the unknown and they do not bring to light any properties of the thing(s) it identifies. An working definition of spirit is that of an unseen force of power and this definition can be applied to illustrate when something is having an effect on reality, yet outside of the visible effect, that something is unidentified, not understood, and unknown.

Well, yes, you're right, as far as having any tangible physical properties are concerned. One might even refer to it as simply a consciousness.
The point is though, it's improper to ascribe any form, or creature like features or attributes, including light or energy, to such an ineffable entity. For every attempt, tends to diminish the full plenitude of his ontology. They truly are beyond fathoming.
Spirit, in such a context, simply means present, but without limit, and ultimately, indescribable.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well, yes, you're right, as far as having any tangible physical properties are concerned. One might even refer to it as simply a consciousness.
The point is though, it's improper to ascribe any form, or creature like features or attributes, including light or energy, to such an ineffable entity. For every attempt, tends to diminish the full plenitude of his ontology. They truly are beyond fathoming.
Spirit, in such a context, simply means present, but without limit, and ultimately, indescribable.

The way I see it, the term "spirit" just means something that isn't bound by the laws of our physical existence. It could be referring to anything present in 'heaven', that exists as a spirit being, or was created as one. The extent to which these beings aren't bound to the laws of nature is determined by the one who created them. Surely, them being "spirits" doesn't automatically qualify them as equal to God in limitless power. We are spirit beings ourselves after all, who are made 'souls' by the union of the spirit with the body, yet we were designed as lower than the angels in capability. This is why the term "spirit" is such a vague term.