The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Understandable, for someone with a low reading comprehension and/or low I.Q. Authors write so that readers understand, but you apparently accuse GOD of writing nonsense:
4:3 If the priest that is anointed H4899 do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.[2]
[2] H4899 - mashiyach - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
[2] H4899 - mashiyach - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
Perhaps your problem isn't comprehension and/or I.Q., -- it's more spiritual.
Bobby Jo
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Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
The White Horse:
The Red Horse:
The Black/Pale Horses:
So while he doesn't really mention the Black Horse specifically here, you can still clearly see what he is actually referring to in revelation with the other three horses, which he describes as the beginning of sorrows.
At which point he begins discussing THE Antichrist, the abomination of desolation who rises out of the sea as "the beast".
The Great Tribulation:
But its from this point in his discourse that you start to see a difference in the order of events as they are described in Revelation. In his discourse, he says the Great Tribulation arrives first before the Day of the Lord. But in revelation, John says the Day of the Lord comes first with the opening of the sixth seal before the Great Tribulation period.
In other words, the Day of the Lord does not trigger the second resurrection, but his wrath. The second resurrection doesn't come into the picture until the last trumpet, and before the seven vials judgement.
Keraz
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Your parallel of Jesus talk on the Mt of Olives, with the Four Seals of Revelation 6:1-8, is good and correct. The world has experienced all those troubles and disasters, all thru this age.
Then the Fifth Seal plainly refers to all the Christian martyrs since Stephen. They must wait until their total number is completed; when Jesus Returns, after all the prophesied events of Revelation up until Rev 19:11, have occurred.
So for us today; the next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer. The sudden destruction of the Lord's enemies. We should not be in the dark about it. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Day of the Lord is primarily what we should be looking forward to, because then we'll know that the stench is really about to his the fan so to speak. On the lead up to this, I believe other things we should be expecting is the formulation of a global digital currency along with the worlds nations being formed into economic trade blocs much like the European Union, ten of them to be exact, going by the ten horns of the beast.
No, the Old Testament has dispensations also. As far as "dispensations" I was never taught anything more that Adam to Moses; Moses to Pentecost; and Pentecost to the second coming. I was just breaking it down in our New Covenant to different sub-dispensations, though not even sure they qualify. I've never considered myself a "dispensationalist," just see changes in the Bible. I'm more of a "covenant" kinda gal.
I see, and that is good in my view. Though you do not want to identify with dispensationalism, you do see 'changes' that dispensationalist's might call 'dispensations'.
Glad to hear your emphasis on the covenants also. As covenants are important in the dispensations also. Though I'm sure your understanding of covenants or the covenants in place, may be different than dispensationalist's.
Stranger
I believe the Jews who live during the Tribulation will make up national Israel. The Gentiles who survive the Tribulation will make up the saved nations who enter the Millennial reign of Christ on this earth. So, no, I do not see a Rapture occurring at the Second Coming.
You must account for the Gentiles saved in (Rev. 7:9-14) during the Tribulation.
So, I believe the Church is always both Jew and Gentile, though predominately Gentile. But that Church of Jesus Christ is removed before the Tribulation. So now, the saved Jew is part of national Israel. The saved Gentile is part of the Tribulation saints, and the saved nations that enter the Millennium. The Church which is made up of both Jew and Gentile is in Heaven at this time and will return with Christ.
Stranger
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
It just says they come out of the Great Tribulation, and I see them as already Christians going into the GT. Look at the letters to the seven churches. Those that do not "overcome" are the ones being martyred in the GT, because they will have to stop straddling the fence and playing with sin. If they are cowards and do not die for Christ, they will be damned.
Those that do not overcome and die prior to the GT, like throughout history will be those whom Jesus will say, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Every post on dispensationalism has thrown me for a loop. I don't know if they mean cessationism or what? It does not affect me or how I interpret the Bible. I believe we are in the New Covenant, and just like the Old Covenant, nothing changes inside the covenant. (not a jot or a tittle)
No, Bobby Jo, I am accusing YOU of writing nonsense, since you have taken a verse pertaining to a priest out of context and spun a yarn.
And then to top it off with this flaming shows what is really in your heart: "Perhaps your problem isn't comprehension and/or I.Q., -- it's more spiritual."
I generally ignore your nonsensical posts and will continue to do so.
Since the whole Church does not experience the judgments reserved for the unbelieving and the ungodly, what that verse is saying is that those have escaped out of the Great Tribulation ("the hour of temptation").
This is confirmed by Revelation 3:10, which prefigures the Church: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
No, only the Philadelphia church age of the last four ages is protected during the GT; they are still here but not harmed. Harm and martyrdom is what they escape. The only ones martyred are those who do not overcome sin in the Church from Thyatira through Laodecia and are still alive when the GT starts. No Gentiles will become newly saved during the GT, only Jews who are also protected.
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Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
EXACTLY CORRECT, as already provided TWICE now:
Lev. 4:3 If the priest that is anointed H4899 do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.[2]
[2] H4899 - mashiyach - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
[2] H4899 - mashiyach - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
... and it's ok if you think Scripture is "nonsense". Many people in spiritual darkness agree with you. -- Just not me.
Bobby Jo
To All,
MANY in this forum are INDOCTRINATED. They believe what they're taught regardless of what Scripture says. It's like being in a CULT, and in fact has MANY of the same attributes. They're programmed to accept one perspective and cannot evaluate, consider, contemplate, or condone any other view.
This is analogous to the GLOBAL WARMING "science" where any evidence which contradicts the hypothesis is either rejected or tampered with. And any scientist who dares contradict the GLOBAL WARMING premise is castigated, excluded, and ultimately destroyed.
It takes courage to actually discuss and debate, but in their world -- fear and cowardice reign supreme.
Bobby Jo
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I don't understand your statements. You said, "Those that do not overcome are the ones being martyred". You then say, "If they are cowards and do not die for Christ, they will be damned."
But, you stated that these are Christians 'going into' the Tribulation. If they are Christians then they are saved and overcomers. (1 John 5:5)
In other words, they can't be 'not overcomers' and 'Christian' at the same time. The point being, there are Gentiles who are saved during the Tribulation. (Rev. 7:13-17) Not just Jews.
Stranger
The seven years have been cut short to 5 months,ie,the time of the locust as per Rev.Also do understand that there are two tribulations
Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."
The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.
Revelation 9:2 "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
Revelation 9:3 "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."
This locust army that comes upon the earth is Satan's army of demonic forces. They are the fallen angels, and demons, both coming with Satan, and those that are already here upon the earth.
The "power" in the Greek, is "exousia"; it means "authority", or delegated power by God to them. It is the right to carry out the wrath of God, in His [God's] behalf. When they strike, or exert their power on the deceived, it is a spiritual power, as we see in Ephesians 6:10-20. This is because we are in a spiritual battle against Satan and His forces.
Revelation 9:5 "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."
God has given us a good clue as to how long Satan will rule as Antichrist. That time is five months. The book of Joel describes in detail how this method of the locust works. The result of that torment is exactly as the torment of the scorpion that "striketh a man". So lets try to understand more of both the locust, and the scorpion.
This is that locust army of Satan that will deliver up the sons and daughters to prophecy against the Antichrist, as spoken of in Joel 2, and also by Peter in Acts 2. What these sons and daughters say will only be those words that the Holy Spirit speaks through them.
Joel said this locust army would march forward, and not miss a stride. Remember, it's not "locust" but men, and the battle which this army enters is a spiritual battle, where the victory is in their deception. Their battle cry is with words like love, joy, peace, brotherhood, equality, and a mixture of words promising peace and prosperity. In the Antichrist rule [the five months] everyone will be satisfied, as long as they continue to yield to this Antichrist.
The time "locust" has four stages, as stated in Joel 1. The part of the locust that exists in the swarming stage is five months. That five months staging period is always between May and September; so God is even giving us the season, or time frame when Antichrist will appear. And by that season, we have an hint of when the seventh trumpet will sound, and Jesus Christ will appear. However that instant is known only to the Father.
Jesus warned that "we pray that ye not be taken out of season", in Mathew 24:20, and Mark 13:18. This is to alert us that being taken out of season means we have been deceived and fallen for the wrong Christ [Antichrist]. The Antichrist will rule between Passover, and the feast of the tabernacles [trumpets].
Why then the torment as that of a scorpion? This locust army will use the same methods a scorpion uses to attack it's prey and render it's prey harmless, during this five months period. Satan and his locust army will not be in any special form, but will appear exactly as a man, as we do. Satan was in the form of a man in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Eve, and his fallen angels appeared as men in Genesis 6:1-8, when they married the daughters of men and had "children" [Nephelim] by them.
The scorpion has a tail with a stinger in the tail. When they strike their prey, he sneaks up to it's prey and infects it's poison into the victim. Near it's mouth, it has a set of pinchers where it latches on to it's victim and pulls it to it's mouth. This is important, because the scorpion has no stomach, so it cannot digest it's own food within itself. Therefore the scorpion stings with the poison of it's tail to paralyze the victim, and then it vomits it's digestive juices [acids] into the body of the victim, then the victim's skin and body actually become the scorpion's stomach.
The acids turn everything it touches into mush. Then the scorpion inhales the mush from the victim's body and is gone. The victim is left defenseless from the beginning of the scorpion's strike, because the poison from the tail rendered the circulatory system and nervous system totally paralyzed, while the digestive acids turned the body to mush. Once stung by a scorpion, instantly you have no defense. You can't fight, run, or even think. You lay helpless to the devouring process of the scorpion.
Now that we see how the scorpion attacks, and the methods used by them; let's apply their methods, to Satan and that of this locust army. Satan and his army of fallen angels will take the lies [traditions] within your religion, and the false teaching that you believe to be true; and use it against you. All religions, Christian and otherwise, will be approached on the level and beliefs of their own understanding. They will use the doctrines of their choosing, and through that, the spiritual darts of lies and deception will come.
Like the scorpion uses your body for it's battle, and attack, so the angels of the locust army [not human] will use your mind as it's battleground. That is why you must be sealed in your mind [see verse 4] and with the proper armor on, which again is in Ephesians 6:10-20. Your battle is a spiritual one with the king of all demons, Satan, and he is ready for you.
The Antichrist has the authority from God, and the right to do business on earth, from the giver of all authority. He knows all your weaknesses, and he knows the Word as well as any theologian. Satan is set to do battle in your mind; and if your relying on false doctrine; like the rapture theory, your gone before the battle starts. If Revelation is still a mystery to you, you don't have a prayer of a chance.
You are about to go against the master of all deception, and the truth of God's word is the only thing Satan can't fight against. That is because the truth written in God's Word sets the limits God placed upon him as the Antichrist. How are you doing, friend?
The great apostasy is now taking place, and well underway. It is being put in place by Satan's kids, the "Kenites", doing the interpretation of God's Word for you if you allow them. They have a club, and it is easy to join; you just accept their dogma. Part of it is given through the "World Council of Churches", and the other parts are in any church that allows it's doctrine to vary even the slightest into false teaching.
Remember, only the "sealed of God", in your mind will allow your escape from all of the Antichrist's deceptions.
revelation9
Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."
The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.
Revelation 9:2 "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
Revelation 9:3 "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."
This locust army that comes upon the earth is Satan's army of demonic forces. They are the fallen angels, and demons, both coming with Satan, and those that are already here upon the earth.
The "power" in the Greek, is "exousia"; it means "authority", or delegated power by God to them. It is the right to carry out the wrath of God, in His [God's] behalf. When they strike, or exert their power on the deceived, it is a spiritual power, as we see in Ephesians 6:10-20. This is because we are in a spiritual battle against Satan and His forces.
Revelation 9:5 "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."
God has given us a good clue as to how long Satan will rule as Antichrist. That time is five months. The book of Joel describes in detail how this method of the locust works. The result of that torment is exactly as the torment of the scorpion that "striketh a man". So lets try to understand more of both the locust, and the scorpion.
This is that locust army of Satan that will deliver up the sons and daughters to prophecy against the Antichrist, as spoken of in Joel 2, and also by Peter in Acts 2. What these sons and daughters say will only be those words that the Holy Spirit speaks through them.
Joel said this locust army would march forward, and not miss a stride. Remember, it's not "locust" but men, and the battle which this army enters is a spiritual battle, where the victory is in their deception. Their battle cry is with words like love, joy, peace, brotherhood, equality, and a mixture of words promising peace and prosperity. In the Antichrist rule [the five months] everyone will be satisfied, as long as they continue to yield to this Antichrist.
The time "locust" has four stages, as stated in Joel 1. The part of the locust that exists in the swarming stage is five months. That five months staging period is always between May and September; so God is even giving us the season, or time frame when Antichrist will appear. And by that season, we have an hint of when the seventh trumpet will sound, and Jesus Christ will appear. However that instant is known only to the Father.
Jesus warned that "we pray that ye not be taken out of season", in Mathew 24:20, and Mark 13:18. This is to alert us that being taken out of season means we have been deceived and fallen for the wrong Christ [Antichrist]. The Antichrist will rule between Passover, and the feast of the tabernacles [trumpets].
Why then the torment as that of a scorpion? This locust army will use the same methods a scorpion uses to attack it's prey and render it's prey harmless, during this five months period. Satan and his locust army will not be in any special form, but will appear exactly as a man, as we do. Satan was in the form of a man in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Eve, and his fallen angels appeared as men in Genesis 6:1-8, when they married the daughters of men and had "children" [Nephelim] by them.
The scorpion has a tail with a stinger in the tail. When they strike their prey, he sneaks up to it's prey and infects it's poison into the victim. Near it's mouth, it has a set of pinchers where it latches on to it's victim and pulls it to it's mouth. This is important, because the scorpion has no stomach, so it cannot digest it's own food within itself. Therefore the scorpion stings with the poison of it's tail to paralyze the victim, and then it vomits it's digestive juices [acids] into the body of the victim, then the victim's skin and body actually become the scorpion's stomach.
The acids turn everything it touches into mush. Then the scorpion inhales the mush from the victim's body and is gone. The victim is left defenseless from the beginning of the scorpion's strike, because the poison from the tail rendered the circulatory system and nervous system totally paralyzed, while the digestive acids turned the body to mush. Once stung by a scorpion, instantly you have no defense. You can't fight, run, or even think. You lay helpless to the devouring process of the scorpion.
Now that we see how the scorpion attacks, and the methods used by them; let's apply their methods, to Satan and that of this locust army. Satan and his army of fallen angels will take the lies [traditions] within your religion, and the false teaching that you believe to be true; and use it against you. All religions, Christian and otherwise, will be approached on the level and beliefs of their own understanding. They will use the doctrines of their choosing, and through that, the spiritual darts of lies and deception will come.
Like the scorpion uses your body for it's battle, and attack, so the angels of the locust army [not human] will use your mind as it's battleground. That is why you must be sealed in your mind [see verse 4] and with the proper armor on, which again is in Ephesians 6:10-20. Your battle is a spiritual one with the king of all demons, Satan, and he is ready for you.
The Antichrist has the authority from God, and the right to do business on earth, from the giver of all authority. He knows all your weaknesses, and he knows the Word as well as any theologian. Satan is set to do battle in your mind; and if your relying on false doctrine; like the rapture theory, your gone before the battle starts. If Revelation is still a mystery to you, you don't have a prayer of a chance.
You are about to go against the master of all deception, and the truth of God's word is the only thing Satan can't fight against. That is because the truth written in God's Word sets the limits God placed upon him as the Antichrist. How are you doing, friend?
The great apostasy is now taking place, and well underway. It is being put in place by Satan's kids, the "Kenites", doing the interpretation of God's Word for you if you allow them. They have a club, and it is easy to join; you just accept their dogma. Part of it is given through the "World Council of Churches", and the other parts are in any church that allows it's doctrine to vary even the slightest into false teaching.
Remember, only the "sealed of God", in your mind will allow your escape from all of the Antichrist's deceptions.
revelation9
You say posts on dispensationalism throw you for a loop. Yet you adhere to certain dispensations in Scripture. You say you emphasize covenants, as dispensationalism does also. And, dispensationalism recognizes we are now under the New Covenant also. Do you agree with my basic definition of 'dispensation' that I gave in post #(282)?
I don't know exactly what you mean by 'cessationism' concerning dispensations. I will say this. The Dispensation of Law has ceased as we are under the Dispensation of Grace. Nothing changes under the Mosaic Law. What has changed is the overall order that God puts in place that man is responsible to. So, the Law ran from Sinai to Pentecost.
Another example is what Dispensationalist's call the first dispensation. That is the dispensation of Innocence. Man's responsibility to God was to care for the garden and subdue the earth and to not eat of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. With the fall of Adam that dispensation ceased. Innocence was no longer present. The earth was cursed. Thus the Dispensation of Innocence is from the creation of man to the fall.
Stranger
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Silly people, with their silly imaginations.
Bobby Jo
To All,
1. The purported "seven-year-tribulation" is from a FALSE rendering of Daniel 9, which has NOTHING to do with the tribulation except that AFTER the "seventy durations" the a/c "shall come".
2. Rev. 13:5 correctly stipulates the tribulation as 42 months, -- and according to my best understanding of the Bible Prophecy time-line we're nearly two years into that 3 1/2 year duration.
3. MANY people don't understand Scripture, but assert their silly doctrines, i.e., "5-month tribulation", which defy Scripture, 42 months.
2. Rev. 13:5 correctly stipulates the tribulation as 42 months, -- and according to my best understanding of the Bible Prophecy time-line we're nearly two years into that 3 1/2 year duration.
3. MANY people don't understand Scripture, but assert their silly doctrines, i.e., "5-month tribulation", which defy Scripture, 42 months.
All of which goes to show that with such nonsense, it would appear that WE ARE in the tribulation.
Bobby Jo
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
If you are trying to test me on dispensations, I will fail. It is Greek to me. I just know covenants. If they happen to be the same as your dispensations, so be it. I don't really care about dispensationalism. I can't be an expert in it as the word is not in the Bible to know what God thinks.
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