'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[CadyandZoe]

The first death is the death of our flesh body.

The "second death" is the destruction of one's "spiritual body" with soul into the future "lake of fire". The abode of the wicked dead called Hades is often called "hell" in the KJV, and it is destroyed also into that future "lake of fire" per the end of Rev.20.

We each have 3 parts, even right now:

1. flesh body -- this is our earthly tabernacle or house. It is not the real us.
2. spiritual body -- this is our spirit body inside our flesh body, not made with hands but eternal in the heavens (heavenly dimension).
3. soul -- this is our person, or id. It is what makes each soul a separate individual and individually accountable.

When our flesh dies, it goes back to the earth where it came from. We are finished with it forever. That is the 1st death.

But our spiritual body with soul continues back to God Who gave it. We are then judged to one side of Paradise or the other, like Lazarus and the rich man that Jesus described in Luke 16.

Our outward image likeness in the heavenly dimension is our "spiritual body".

The destruction of one's spiritual body with soul is the "second death", a casting into the future "lake of fire". The "second death" has nothing to do with destruction of the flesh.

I have never heard of a spirit body. I don't think this is Biblical

 

[Joseph77]

I have never heard of a spirit body. I don't think this is Biblical

Correct, as we 'know' and learned, and / however -
As we may hope for the best, maybe it's a matter of context and semantics or regional type education or thinking on their part - perhaps not a serious discrepancy , or not on purpose willfully ?

 

[Cooper]

I have never heard of a spirit body. I don't think this is Biblical

God in Christ?

 

[CadyandZoe]

God in Christ?

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Correct, as we 'know' and learned, and / however -
As we may hope for the best, maybe it's a matter of context and semantics or regional type education or thinking on their part - perhaps not a serious discrepancy , or not on purpose willfully ?

I'm not sure.

 

[Cooper]

I'm not sure what you mean.

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV)

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)

I was thinking the words 'spirit body' would describe God manifest in Christ.
.

 

[Earburner]

Resurrection always refers to being raised from the dead. It never refers to being born again or partaking of the divine nature. Jesus was crucified on a cross. He died and was buried in a tomb. And three days later God raised him from the dead. Death, burial, resurrection. Death, burial, resurrection.

John 5:28-30
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

In the tombs >>> Resurrection.
When? >>> hear his voice.

Unfortunately, you did not quote all the verses pertaining to that topic, nor are you using the KJV, of which doesn't manipulate the reader's understanding, through the use of slanting nuances and word insertions, in order to bend people towards a particular denominational view.
So lets look at the entirety John 5:24-28, comparing the two sections of scripture there.

Here is the first section of scripture:
KJV- John 5[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word [voice], and believeth on him that sent me, *hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but *is passed from death unto life.
^(* in the present tense, happening now).

[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, *and now is, when **the dead shall hear the voice [words] of the Son of God: and **they that hear *shall live.
[26] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
[27] And hath given him authority to execute ***judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
^(* in the present tense, happening now)
^(** physically born dead to God, aka dead in their sins, happening now)
^(*** John 3:18)

Now the second section of scripture:
[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have »done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have
»»done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
^( » Mark 10[18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good?
^( »»there is none good ) Mark 10:18
^( »but one, that is, God.) Mark 10:18
^(Mat. 10[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body
in hell (the grave).

Lets be real here, those who are alive in their flesh, were physically born "dead to God", being without the Spirit. For those who choose to remain so, they NEVER DO HEAR His voice/words NOW, so therefore after physical death, they WILL NOT HEAR His voice/words THEN either!!
Matthew 10:28

That is WHY they are destroyed in their graves (hell). Its WHERE the LoF will be, and where they are, when Jesus returns suddenly in flaming fire.

So here is the scriptural confusion and dilemma of John 5:24-28,
Q. Since all the unsaved shall be destroyed IN hell (the grave), WHEN did they literally come forth out of their graves (hell), being resurrected in their OLD "flesh and blood" bodies??
Ans. They didn't!
They were "judged" as "condemned already" by default "Thou shalt surely die".
John 3:18.

> So then, since none are good, except God, how shall one who is NOT good, "do good", aka "work the work of God", in order to be included IN the resurrection of life?
Ans. They had to have been given the "good Gift" of God Himself to dwell/live within them, who only is "good".
See also: Romans 7:18 Luke 11:13
John 3:18 John 6:29 Romans 8:8-9.

For some to say "hell (the graves) will be emptied", is really a lie, for Matthew 10:28 shows that the wicked unsaved dead will be destroyed in their graves (hell).

I perceive that there will be no physical resurrection of the wicked dead!

 

[Cooper]

Unfortunately, you did not quote all the verses pertaining to that topic, nor are you using the KJV, of which doesn't manipulate the reader's understanding, through the use of slanting nuances and word insertions, in order to bend people towards a particular denominational view.
So lets look at the entirety John 5:24-28, comparing the two sections of scripture there.

Here is the first section of scripture:
KJV- John 5[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word [voice], and believeth on him that sent me, *hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but *is passed from death unto life.
^(* in the present tense, happening now).

[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, *and now is, when **the dead shall hear the voice [words] of the Son of God: and **they that hear *shall live.
[26] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
[27] And hath given him authority to execute ***judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
^(* in the present tense, happening now)
^(** physically born dead to God, aka dead in their sins, happening now)
^(*** John 3:18)

Now the second section of scripture:
[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have »done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have
»»done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
^( » Mark 10[18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good?
^( »»there is none good ) Mark 10:18
^( »but one, that is, God.) Mark 10:18
^(Mat. 10[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body
in hell (the grave).

Lets be real here, those who are alive in their flesh, were physically born "dead to God", being without the Spirit. For those who choose to remain so, they NEVER DO HEAR His voice/words NOW, so therefore after physical death, they WILL NOT HEAR His voice/words THEN either!!
Matthew 10:28

That is WHY they are destroyed in their graves (hell). Its WHERE the LoF will be, and where they are, when Jesus returns suddenly in flaming fire.

So here is the scriptural confusion and dilemma of John 5:24-28,
Q. Since all the unsaved shall be destroyed IN hell (the grave), WHEN did they literally come forth out of their graves (hell), being resurrected in their OLD "flesh and blood" bodies??
Ans. They didn't!
They were "judged" as "condemned already" by default "Thou shalt surely die".
John 3:18.

> So then, since none are good, except God, how shall one who is NOT good, "do good", aka "work the work of God", in order to be included IN the resurrection of life?
Ans. They had to have been given the "good Gift" of God Himself to dwell/live within them, who only is "good".
See also: Romans 7:18 Luke 11:13
John 3:18 John 6:29 Romans 8:8-9.

For some to say "hell (the graves) will be emptied", is really a lie, for Matthew 10:28 shows that the wicked unsaved dead will be destroyed in their graves (hell).

I perceive that there will be no physical resurrection of the wicked dead!

What about the sheep and the goats when they come before the Judgment Seat and Jesus says "I never knew you."
.

 

[Earburner]

Reflecting three things: 1) No Scripture; 2) No logic; No comprehension. In other words, self-proven bull.

Matthew 10:28

 

[Earburner]

What about the sheep and the goats when they come before the Judgment Seat and Jesus says "I never knew you."
.

The discerning factor of who the sheep and the goats are know by Christ in each generation. See Romans 8:9.
For every person who professes Christ, but never did Receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit by Christ, is not born again of God's Holy Spirit, and therefore should they physically die in that condition of neglect, are "none of His" .

 

[Earburner]

I get that. My efforts in this thread, however, are to answer the OP question. When is death swallowed up in victory? Anyone reading this thread will probably get a good idea as to the answer. But lately, I have once again run across, what I would consider to be a misinterpretation of Revelation 20, which confuses "new life in Christ" or "being born again" with the concept of "resurrection". Both of these concepts are Biblical; both of them are true. But they are different, not the same thing.

Do you see them as two different things or are they the same thing in your view?

From God's perspective, I see our salvation as a process. A simple analogy of a Caterpillar being "born again" into "a NEW creature", works marvously well for helping our understanding.
1. "The natural man", all are physically born dead to God- Caterpillar stage.
2. "Born again by His Holy Spirit", having part in Christ's Resurrection-
Cocoon stage.
3. "Changed into His likeness" of Immortality for all eternity, upon His Glorious return-
Butterfly stage.

1. Upon Christ's return, all of such will be made "Dead on Arrival" .
2. Pending Christ's return, all of such have been on Christ's NEW creature "Life Support" system.
3. Upon Christ's return, all who are found in the state of catagory 2, will be changed/ resurrected into Immortality, as He is.

 

[Earburner]

How important is it, of what I just demonstrated?
Romans 8:8-9.
Very important!

 

[Earburner]

I have never heard of a spirit body. I don't think this is Biblical

At the moment, only Christ has THE Spirit body, being both son of man and God the Son. His representation to usward, is God the Holy Spirit, being both God the Father and God the Son. Truly, Jesus is the Mediator for both God the Father and ourselves.
KJV- John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[CadyandZoe]

At the moment, only Christ has THE Spirit body, being both son of man and God the Son. His representation to usward, is God the Holy Spirit, being both God the Father and God the Son. Truly, Jesus is the Mediator for both God the Father and ourselves.
KJV- John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Can you explain what you mean by a spirit body? As I say, I don't think this idea comes from the Bible.

 

[Earburner]

Can you explain what you mean by a spirit body? As I say, I don't think this idea comes from the Bible.

When Jesus resurrected from the dead, He became the First New Immortal Creation, being alive and sustained forevermore by the Spirit of God and not by blood.
Luke 24[38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[40] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
[41] And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
[42] And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
[43] And he took it, and did eat before them.

John 20[24] But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
[25] The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
[26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
[27] Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Acts 1[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[Earburner]

^ If you will notice, in the words that Thomas spoke, Jesus never corrected him, in how he should think about Who Jesus was:
[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my *God.
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

*John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Davy]

I have never heard of a spirit body. I don't think this is Biblical

You have never read this by Apostle Paul?

1 Cor 15:42-53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
KJV


And this directly from Lord Jesus...

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
KJV

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I was thinking the words 'spirit body' would describe God manifest in Christ.
.

I th-th-think gh-gh-ghost describes 'spirit body' b-b-b-better

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Matthew 10:28

The death you and I know is the death of the body you and I have. God is the Able One who IN and WITH the resurrection of the body (our body), will "destroy both (our) soul and body (life) in hell*." Without soul the body is dead and without body there is no living soul; a dead body is dust, not a dead soul.

* Well, let us pray not ours but the damned.

 

[Joseph77]

The death you and I know is the death of the body you and I have. God is the Able One who IN and WITH the resurrection of the body (our body), will "destroy both (our) soul and body (life) in hell*." Without soul the body is dead and without body there is no living soul; a dead body is dust, not a dead soul.

* Well, let us pray not ours but the damned.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"damned"
occurs 3 times in 3 verses in the KJV, including 3 exact phrases shown first.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

2 Thessalonians 2:12

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.