Grace vs Legalism

[Mr C]

In John 6:28-29, Jesus is in effect saying, "So you want to insist that salvation is by works, do you? Well, I'm telling you that the only work that will save is simple faith in me. I will concede the point and then turn it around so that you realize that salvation is by grace through faith alone in me alone."



As has already been said, it does not say that to be baptized not = condemnation.

I will say this, that if you believe and are baptized, it = absolute assurance that you shall be saved. Just like if you call upon the name of the Lord you shall be saved.

But if you have mere belief, you "should not perish"...iffy.

It behoves a man to go and get baptized...or, if he will not do that, to call upon the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for salvation (see Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12).



Opie's dad in the next sitcom might be a catch for you, indeed.

Here is how one calls on the Lord. (Acts 22:16)

1. Arise
2. Be baptized
3. Wash Away Your Sins
4. Calling on the Lord

 

[justbyfaith]

A person can call on the name of the Lord simply by praying something like this:

Dear Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I call upon Your Name for salvation. I recognize that I am a sinner in need of a Saviour; and I ask You to save me, and fill me with Your Holy Spirit, and forgive me of and also wash away all of my sins in Your precious blood. I receive You as Lord and I confess You as Lord. I confess that Jesus, You are the Son of God, according to the definition of that found in Isaiah 9:6. You are the great I AM of Exodus 3:14. In Your Name I pray, Amen.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP only.

The reality is........The Blood of Christ has already cleansed our Sin.....all of it.....>Tomorrow's included.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
Romans 3:21 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;"
Romans 3:22 "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

"for the remission of sins that are past" this is what I would like to look at, if the Lord Jesus is our propitiation or our substitute for the sins in our past before we came to him. what about our sins of the future, while in him? are they not forgiven? for he gave himself once for our sins that are "PAST", read Romans 3:25 again. and notice the "s" at the end of Sin(s) there.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

It seems to me that the sin that I commit five minutes from now, will be in the past five minutes and 1 second from now.

 

[101G]

It seems to me that the sin that I commit five minutes from now, will be in the past five minutes and 1 second from now.

how many time have you came to Jesus? .. once, or is you crucifying him afresh?

PICJAG.

 

[CharismaticLady]

what about our sins of the future, while in him? are they not forgiven?

He baptizes us with His Holy Spirit of Christ. We receive by His grace the divine power from a divine nature to not sin in the present or future. Anyone who still sins and has not received power over their old nature, doesn't belong to Him. We must be born again. Romans 8:9; 1 John 3:5-9; 2 Peter 1:2-11

 

[justbyfaith]

how many time have you came to Jesus? .. once, or is you crucifying him afresh?

PICJAG.

Are you saying that once you come to Jesus, if you sin again after that, you're out of luck?

That's not the God I know and love and serve...

 

[Stumpmaster]

how many time have you came to Jesus? .. once, or is you crucifying him afresh?

PICJAG.

I believe those who crucified Christ considered Him to be an insane, demon-possessed, blasphemer, and not the Messiah or Son of God.

An enlightened person, who tastes the heavenly gift, partakes of the Holy Spirit, tastes the good word of God and the powers of the world to come, could possibly fall away, and we can speculate as to what might cause this, but the falling away in view here is so serious that it places the person in the same group that opposed Christ, ridiculed Him, falsely accused Him, mocked and scorned Him, disbelieved Him and plotted to kill Him, eventually making sure He was arrested, beaten, humiliated, and crucified. Note that an ex-christian in this position crucifies Christ afresh "to themselves". This means in their mind and evil heart of unbelief they are joined with those who opposed Christ and sought to dispose of Him.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[101G]

He baptizes us with His Holy Spirit of Christ. We receive by His grace the divine power from a divine nature to not sin in the present or future. Anyone who still sins and has not received power over their old nature, doesn't belong to Him. We must be born again. Romans 8:9; 1 John 3:5-9

thanks for the reply, but we don't agree with that assessment. and here's why. we're still in the flesh bodies and the flesh lust againist our spirits. we are in a fight. and two, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." why? because our Lord Jesus condemed sin in the flesh, and our fleshly bodies are not yet redeemed, only until he come and change these vile thing, (bodies), that we live in.

so if you thing that you're without sin you better read Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
Romans 6:13 "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."

well if you're sin free, well good for you, but don't deceive yourself ok. so you have never lied since you came to Christ right? don't answer that I don't want you to get in trouble... (smile).

but this is why we have this clause in the contract and have a mediator, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

the point in born again is not to sin, but, but, but, if you do we have an advocate. and we can confess our sins, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

thank God for the NEW CONTRACT.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

I believe those who crucified Christ considered Him to be an insane, demon-possessed, blasphemer, and not the Messiah or Son of God.

An enlightened person, who tastes the heavenly gift, partakes of the Holy Spirit, tastes the good word of God and the powers of the world to come, could possibly fall away, and we can speculate as to what might cause this, but the falling away in view here is so serious that it places the person in the same group that opposed Christ, ridiculed Him, falsely accused Him, mocked and scorned Him, disbelieved Him and plotted to kill Him, eventually making sure He was arrested, beaten, humiliated, and crucified. Note that an ex-christian in this position crucifies Christ afresh "to themselves". This means in their mind and evil heart of unbelief they are joined with those who opposed Christ and sought to dispose of Him.

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

one want loose their salvation if they sin.... not on a regular basis, if so, then they are practicing it. for charity covers a muiltude of sins, see 1 Peter 4:8. but also God deal with us as sons. he don't have any Ba Ba kids running around. Hebrews 12:7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"Hebrews 12:8 "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

God keep the book correct.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Are you saying that once you come to Jesus, if you sin again after that, you're out of luck?

That's not the God I know and love and serve...

DID I say that? so why are you saying it? guilty conscious..... (smile). did you read post #149?

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

people understand, once we come to christ for the very first time, we're new born babies. and I have never see a new born start to walk after they was just born. the same is true in the spirit. you crawl before you walk. and yes we're going to make mistakes. that's why God never, never require a sinner to confess their sin in order to be save. no, they are to confess his Son JESUS. and we as christians are to confess our sin, because we're already save.
confession of SINS are not for sinners, but are for Christians, the save ones.

PICJAG.

 

[CharismaticLady]

thanks for the reply, but we don't agree with that assessment. and here's why. we're still in the flesh bodies and the flesh lust againist our spirits. we are in a fight. and two, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." why? because our Lord Jesus condemed sin in the flesh, and our fleshly bodies are not yet redeemed, only until he come and change these vile thing, (bodies), that we live in.

so if you thing that you're without sin you better read Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
Romans 6:13 "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."

well if you're sin free, well good for you, but don't deceive yourself ok. so you have never lied since you came to Christ right? don't answer that I don't want you to get in trouble... (smile).

but this is why we have this clause in the contract and have a mediator, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

the point in born again is not to sin, but, but, but, if you do we have an advocate. and we can confess our sins, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

thank God for the NEW CONTRACT.

PICJAG.

What you don't realize is how many times we repent in order to receive the Holy Spirit that frees us from sin!

Acts of the Apostles 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How many? ONCE.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

That is how an unsaved person who has never repented and accepted Christ, but may be a Jew that keeps the Law, becomes a Christian.

Then:

1 John 3:4-9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Can you see how the Word of God contradicts your belief about 1 John 1:8? It is the same thing as Paul writing of mankind (before repentance unto Christ) 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

I know I've shown this to you before. I'm trying to explain it a different way until you understand.

This is just the first lesson regarding sin. You also mentioned 1 John 2:1, but did you see the first part? It IS possible to not sin. So saying you do not have sin is NOT a lie. 1 John 3:5. Not if you are abiding in Christ and are not in the flesh but in the Spirit Romans 8:9.

Notice 1 John 3:4 sin is lawlessness. John is talking about sins unto death 1 John 5:16-17. Those are willful sins against the Law, the 10 Commandments that mankind is under until we are filled with the Spirit of Christ.

The sins that 1 John 2:1 is talking about that Jesus is our Advocate are the sins NOT unto death. He is not our Advocate for murder, lying, stealing, adultery or anything in Galatians 5:19-21.

This second lesson is this: Sins not unto death are trespasses against each other, not the laws of God. Hurting each others feelings unintentionally. It happens. Leviticus 5:15. But when we forgive each other, then Jesus as our Advocate does what is promised in Matthew 6:14-15. But if we don't forgive, then neither can Jesus be our Advocate.

I stand by 1 John 3:21-24. Keep the commandments of Jesus to believe on Him AND love each other. Do nothing against our own super-sensitized conscience that is full of the Holy Spirit, so always go to bed with a clear conscience, and think about if you need to forgive any brother or sister in the Lord, and plan to reconcile.

 

[justbyfaith]

1 John 3:4-9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Can you see how the Word of God contradicts your belief about 1 John 1:8?

There is no contradiction between the literal interpretation of 1 John 1:8 and the literal interpretation of 1 John 3:5-9.

That we have indwelling sin in no way precludes that we have to walk according to it, Romans 6:14. It can be rendered dead, Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8; so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour..

 

[Mr C]

A person can call on the name of the Lord simply by praying something like this:

Dear Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I call upon Your Name for salvation. I recognize that I am a sinner in need of a Saviour; and I ask You to save me, and fill me with Your Holy Spirit, and forgive me of and also wash away all of my sins in Your precious blood. I receive You as Lord and I confess You as Lord. I confess that Jesus, You are the Son of God, according to the definition of that found in Isaiah 9:6. You are the great I AM of Exodus 3:14. In Your Name I pray, Amen.

So Acts 22:16 means nothing to you?

 

[Mr C]

If all our FUTURE sins are already forgiven, then why did Peter tell Simon to repent and pray? (Acts 8:22) (1Jn 1:9)

Simon was converted in (Acts 8:13).

Simon done what the Samaritans did. (Acts 8:5,12) (Mark 16:16)

If the Samaritans were saved, so was Simon.


Notice also (Heb.10:26-31) and (2Peter 2:20-22)

 

[Enoch111]

If the Samaritans were saved, so was Simon.

There is a difference between wishful thinking and truth. Simon the Sorcerer was definitely not saved as the text clearly shows, and as Church history confirms.

 

[mailmandan]

There is a difference between wishful thinking and truth. Simon the Sorcerer was definitely not saved as the text clearly shows, and as Church history confirms.

Amen! After Simon's spurious conversion, we see that Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. (verses 20-21)

 

[Behold]

“ Paul Stuff”....... Lol.....I Loved it!


Upon reflection .....it really isn’t all that “ funny “, is it ? My God , what a splendid job Satan has done by muzzling the rich, vital teachings of “ God's Chosen Vessel”.....Sad......and damning.....
This Wonderful Age Of Grace That God has provided and is ABLE to provide only because of the Obscene Torture Of His Son.....rejected by the vast majority of the World and also rejected by supposed “ Christians”..... How it must break the heart of God to see His Miraculous Plan Of Saving Wretched Men and women turned into a big dud......99% Of the reason is because people are too lazy and unconcerned to read a Bible and just leave it all to Jack- Leg Preachers .....lay back, soak it in .....Trust the Guy ! He wears a robe or a funny collar and stands in a pulpit so he “ MUST” know what he is talking about! Right? The blind leading the blind..... “ Bah Gawd! “ I “ go by what JESUS says ! Who needs to listen to Paul! Such Sanctimonious Ignorance.....They Spew their ignorance of the Things Of God as if it were a Virtue......

Yes.
And im very glad you and Paul are well acquainted.

The truth is.. if a believer does not get grounded in Grace early in their discipleship. Hebrews 13:9 and following this become a student of Paul.. as He is the gentile apostle in the time of the gentiles, ....
If a person does not do this, then they will end up a heretic in a cult.
Paul protects us from legalism and heresy, as you know.

 

[Behold]

It is not because I can't, but because I am not an idiot. 40-50 threads of rubbish does not help anyone but displays your own ignorance about Gospel truth and Bible truth.

The reason you can't quote me, and just insult me insult me instead, is because if you quote me you are proven to be a fool.
If you don't quote me, you are merely proven to be wrong.
Either way..... do you see yourself?