Grace vs Legalism

[Behold]

BTW, I am assured of my salvation even though I believe OSAS as a doctrine is dangerous when taken to its objectionable conclusion of licentiousness..

You have the cult's wrong idea of the word "licentiousness", as found in Jude.
What happened to you, is that you were taught to think that word in that verse means one thing, when it fact, its the opposite.

Its this....

The Devil wants people to THINK that the True Revelation of God's Grace, is "license to sin"..
So, he has people preach that verse in Jude, backwards..
Jude isn't saying that there is anything greasy about Grace...... He's saying that the devil and his liars are teaching that if we preach Grace as "free Gift", then we are teaching LICENSE.
So, that is how the devil has FLIPPED this verse, and the understanding in your head, and in many.

JUDE is saying that these deceivers have created a false idea about Grace, to subvert it,...but teaching that Grace, if taught correctly is "LICENTIOUSNESS"....

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are you growing? Or are you sinless?

Sinlessness and perfection are two different things. If you live up to the knowledge you have you are still sinless, even though there are things yet to learn that would not be pleasing to God.

Perfection is the growing of 2 Peter 1:4-7.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So then, the reconciliation is to to remove you from condemnation as many times as needed, this is correct?

Much love!

Remove you from condemnation? Perhaps, as God said, if you DON'T forgive your brethren, neither will He forgive you.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You have the cult's wrong idea of the word "licentiousness", as found in Jude.
What happened to you, is that you were taught to think that word in that verse means one thing, when it fact, its the opposite.

Its this....

The Devil wants people to THINK that the True Revelation of God's Grace, is "license to sin"..
So, he has people preach that verse in Jude, backwards..
Jude isn't saying that there is anything greasy about Grace...... He's saying that the devil and his liars are teaching that if we preach Grace as "free Gift", then we are teaching LICENSE.
So, that is how the devil has FLIPPED this verse, and the understanding in your head, and in many.

JUDE is saying that these deceivers have created a false idea about Grace, to subvert it,...but teaching that Grace, if taught correctly is "LICENTIOUSNESS"....

What does licentiousness mean to you, that you believe grace is licentiousness?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Being given something does not mean that most Believers understand what they are given.
You seem to not realize this..
So, let me help you.
All the born again are given the word of God.... How many understand 2% of it?
Yet they are "given it", right?
And so it is with all Spiritual things and all Spiritual Reality.
We are given it all, upon "new birth", but that is not the same as existing within the "Mind of Christ" Right Believing,= understanding of it..
Even a verse like...>"work out your salvation"..
99% of Believers have no idea how to do this, or even what this verse means.
Most are foolishly taught it means to try to keep yourself saved.
So, it is one thing to become born again, but its a different situation to grow up correctly "in Christ".

I agree, which is why I said:

There is a reason the Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth. It is He that teaches us and gives us revelation knowledge.

That revelation knowledge is understanding His Word.

 

[marks]

If you live up to the knowledge you have you are still sinless,

Is this to say that you never commit sins that you don't know are sins? That seems odd to me. Kind of relativistic. Do you know what I mean?

 

[marks]

Remove you from condemnation? Perhaps, as God said, if you DON'T forgive your brethren, neither will He forgive you.

So then it's unreasonable to have any assurance of salvation, it would seem to me, if these things were true.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Is this to say that you never commit sins that you don't know are sins? That seems odd to me. Kind of relativistic. Do you know what I mean?

Oh, yes I did definitely. But it was based on a false teacher's definition. I don't really want to go into it, just to say though in the midst of it, I could still hear His voice and had visions, unlike now if I don't take care of something immediately. He is silent until I do what I know to be right, even though it was someone else's fault.

In other words, when I was a new Spirit-filled believer I got away with stuff I could never get away with now that I am mature.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So then it's unreasonable to have any assurance of salvation, it would seem to me, if these things were true.

Much love!

I go to bed each and every night with a clear conscience and think about if I need to forgive anyone. When that checklist is done I've worked out my own salvation.

 

[marks]

I go to bed each and every night with a clear conscience and think about if I need to forgive anyone. When that checklist is done I've worked out my own salvation.

Interesting POV! A checklist to make sure you are still saved.

To me, working out my salvation is that as God makes me more forgiving, I forgive more. As God makes me more giving, I give more. As God makes me more patient, I endure longer. The admonition is, I think, that I'm not to overturn the work God is doing in me in favor of holding on to the works of the flesh.

So even though my flesh may get a boost from getting angry, when God is working gentleness and patience and kindness into me, I'm to choose that instead of the fleshy anger.

All this is Christ in me, I like Paul's words, "til Christ be formed in you". Peter, add to your faith virtue, ect, I see this as step by step how to put on Christ, which is the same thing as saying, how to put on the new man.

But not to be saved, rather, because we are saved.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Oh, yes I did definitely. But it was based on a false teacher's definition. I don't really want to go into it, just to say though in the midst of it, I could still hear His voice and had visions, unlike now if I don't take care of something immediately. He is silent until I do what I know to be right, even though it was someone else's fault.

In other words, when I was a new Spirit-filled believer I got away with stuff I could never get away with now that I am mature.

Interesting!

As a Spirit filled believer, you "got away" with sin?

Not that I have any issue with you saying this, it just doesn't seems consistent with your soteriology.

Much love!

 

[marks]

and think about if I need to forgive anyone.

Wouldn't unforgiveness be a sin?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Interesting POV! A checklist to make sure you are still saved.

To me, working out my salvation is that as God makes me more forgiving, I forgive more. As God makes me more giving, I give more. As God makes me more patient, I endure longer. The admonition is, I think, that I'm not to overturn the work God is doing in me in favor of holding on to the works of the flesh.

So even though my flesh may get a boost from getting angry, when God is working gentleness and patience and kindness into me, I'm to choose that instead of the fleshy anger.

All this is Christ in me, I like Paul's words, "til Christ be formed in you". Peter, add to your faith virtue, ect, I see this as step by step how to put on Christ, which is the same thing as saying, how to put on the new man.

But not to be saved, rather, because we are saved.

Much love!

I like this post.

I do it because even though I'm a child of God, we are to "purify ourselves." 1 John 3:3. How do you do that. It seems like our responsibility?

I remember being yelled at by a Bible leader at a home Bible study, and didn't open my mouth. It took me months to forgive him, but I finally did because of Matthew 6:14-15. It wasn't because I wanted to, but I had to purify this resentment out of me. That burden has now lifted.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Wouldn't unforgiveness be a sin?

Yes, a willful sin.

 

[marks]

Yes, a willful sin.

So then your checklist must be empty each day, is that right? And this is just mental review, but not finding anything?

 

[CharismaticLady]

So then your checklist must be empty each day, is that right? And this is just mental review, but not finding anything?

It is important to me and my being able to hear God's voice, the most precious thing in my life.

 

[marks]

I do it because even though I'm a child of God, we are to "purify ourselves." 1 John 3:3. How do you do that. It seems like our responsibility?

This is, I think, and excellent question, which I want to think about before I give a reply.

I remember being yelled at by a Bible leader at a home Bible study, and didn't open my mouth. It took me months to forgive him, but I finally did because of Matthew 6:14-15. It wasn't because I wanted to, but I had to purify this resentment out of me. That burden has now lifted.

Resentment and unforgiveness have no place in a heart of love.

Jesus gave the best example (of course!), in, "Father, forgive them" while they were in the very act of murdering Him.

It really tests our love for others, when they do things against us, can we be as unforgiving as Christ Himself, and not count other people's sins against them, even while they are committing them against us.

Or the next rung on the ladder . . . to realize that their sins are not against us, they are against God, and we are merely His servants serving at His pleasure. If it's His pleasure to put me in this situation where someone is ___________ me, who am I to harbor anything against anyone? I simply serve God, regardless of whatever else is happening.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is important to me and my being able to hear God's voice, the most precious thing in my life.

Amen! If that's His arrangement with you, God bless you! I think we all have very personal relationships with God, and that He does some unconventional things sometimes, at least by our standards!

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

This to me is sad.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

This is eternal life, that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

Do you not know Him?

If you know Him, is that not because you have a true faith?

Much love!

What I am saying is that there are many who have a false assurance of salvation; who believe that His Spirit testifies with their spirit that they are children of God; and yet they are not saved. So, how do you know that you are not one of those people?

Even a verse like...>"work out your salvation"..
99% of Believers have no idea how to do this, or even what this verse means.
Most are foolishly taught it means to try to keep yourself saved.

Philippians 2:12 is repeated in different words in 2 Peter 1:10.

That won't stop them from filling up more Pulpits, becoming more Popes, and ruining more Christian forums.

I agree...

You have the cult's wrong idea of the word "licentiousness", as found in Jude.
What happened to you, is that you were taught to think that word in that verse means one thing, when it fact, its the opposite.

Its this....

The Devil wants people to THINK that the True Revelation of God's Grace, is "license to sin"..
So, he has people preach that verse in Jude, backwards..
Jude isn't saying that there is anything greasy about Grace...... He's saying that the devil and his liars are teaching that if we preach Grace as "free Gift", then we are teaching LICENSE.
So, that is how the devil has FLIPPED this verse, and the understanding in your head, and in many.

JUDE is saying that these deceivers have created a false idea about Grace, to subvert it,...but teaching that Grace, if taught correctly is "LICENTIOUSNESS"....

Those who teach grace as a license for sin, teach that grace covers you even if you sin willfully against the Lord. They do not touch on the fact that real grace transforms a man so that he does not live the way that he did before. They teach false doctrines such as "the inevitability of sin" and that repentance is not a requirement for salvation. They teach that sinning is of no consequence to the believer; that there are no consequences for sinning against the Lord. They teach that grace is a license for immorality...that anything goes once you are a believer....you can do anything you want. And that this also applies to those who still want to do ungodly things.

 

[marks]

What I am saying is that there are many who have a false assurance of salvation; who believe that His Spirit testifies with their spirit that they are children of God; and yet they are not saved. So, how do you know that you are not one of those people?

You've just said a mouthful!

Are there people who believe that the Holy Spirit is testifying with their spirits that they are children of God, and are not?

This is one of those hypotheticals, it can be turned this way or that way.

So, how do you know that you are not one of those people?

Does this mean you find it impossible to know whether you are, or you are not a child of God?

Much love!