John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

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Hidden In Him

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Monday night football baby! Love Drew Brees! Great Christian man, though we may have differences in scripture :)! I have Alvin Kamara on my fantasy football team.

Yeah, I logged on to say the darn Raiders actually are bringing it. HARD, Lol. I wanna play Tom Brady again. This isn't much fun : )
Can we be friends now! :)

I'm still thinking it over. Ha Ha!

God bless. Maybe we'll make an NFL thread eventually. Not sure if there's anyone else here, but we can find out.

So you think the Rams will make it out of their division or what? I think yours is the best division in football now.
 
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First, one cannot lose their salvation.

Perseverance of the Saints from the scriptures.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).

But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).

And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).

And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

“Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).


Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).

More....


(John 10:27-30),(John 6:39),(1 John 5:18),(Luke 11:20-22),(1 John 4:4),(1 Corinthians 10:13),(Matthew 24:24)
(1 John 2:19),(2 Timothy 4:18),(Jude 24-25),(Psalm 37:23-26), (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24),(Luke 22:31)

That takes care of losing your salvation.

Second.

Take a look at the news. America is already in chaos. The Constitution has zilch to do with losing one's salvation. God takes care of that.

The Catholic church funds abortion, redirects money from Peter's Pence to pricey London real estate, idolizes a woman, uses pagan symbols, teaches acceptance of homosexuals and even has private masses for them. How can you tell me that the Catholic church interprets scripture when they cannot manage what the Bible clearly says. It's not ambiguous, it's depraved sin.

Here is what the Bible says:

1 Corinthians 7:2

2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.


1 Corinthians 6:15-20 NASB

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.


1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.


Mark 10:6-9

6 But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, 8 and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”


Romans 1:18-32

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.


Jude 5-8

Hebrews 13:4

1 Timothy 1:8-11

What were you saying about the Catholic church interpreting scripture? How does the Catholic hierarchy justify so called "Dignity Masses"

I encourage you again, to read the scriptures for yourself and leave the Catholic Church.

So if you stop worshiping in Jesus and start worshiping satan, you'll still go to heaven?
 
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Yeah, I logged on to say the darn Raiders actually are bringing it. HARD, Lol. I wanna play Tom Brady again. This isn't much fun : )


I'm still thinking it over. Ha Ha!

God bless. Maybe we'll make an NFL thread eventually. Not sure if there's anyone else here, but we can find out.

So you think the Rams will make it out of their division or what? I think yours is the best division in football now.

Rams are looking good but Jared Goff can be spotty at time!
 
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bbyrd009

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You can lead a horse to water...

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

Peace be with you!
i just gave you a like for the beard, really i have no idea what you just said :)
 

ChristisGod

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Yeah, I logged on to say the darn Raiders actually are bringing it. HARD, Lol. I wanna play Tom Brady again. This isn't much fun : )


I'm still thinking it over. Ha Ha!

God bless. Maybe we'll make an NFL thread eventually. Not sure if there's anyone else here, but we can find out.

So you think the Rams will make it out of their division or what? I think yours is the best division in football now.
I grew up in the 60's and 70's and went to every single raiders home game including playoffs. When they left Oakland the first time I was done with them. That was when the silver and black were amazing. My younger brother still follows them and is watching them tonight in my home during our daughters birthday party celebration. I have zero interest now in pretty much all sports with the exception of the PGA Tour. I have also been a golden state warriors fan since the rick berry days but no more. I'm over these athlete's turned political.
 

Spurgeon's Girl

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So if you stop worshiping in Jesus and start worshiping satan, you'll still go to heaven?

Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith, not Satan.

Stop rejecting things without even taking the time to read what the Bible says.

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).

And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).

If you are not prepared to deal with the scripture, then your opinion, is just that, a personal opinion.
 
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Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith, not Satan.

Stop rejecting things without even taking the time to read what the Bible says.

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).

And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).

If you are not prepared to deal with the scripture, then your opinion, is just that, a personal opinion.

Here's a couple my dear:

Matt. 22:14 – Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.

Luke 8:13 – Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

Luke 12:42-46 – we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”

John 6:70-71 – Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

John 15:1-10 – we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

John 17:12 – we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.

John 10:27-28 – when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

1 Cor. 15:1-2 – we can be believers (predestined to grace) but believe in vain. Scripture refutes the novel Protestant theory “once saved, always saved.”

Rom. 13:11 – for salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. If we already have salvation, then how can we only be nearer to it?

1 Cor. 6:9-11 – we can be washed, sanctified, and justified, yet Paul still warns us that we can be deceived and become unrighteous.

2 Cor. 6:1 – we can receive the grace of God (predestined to grace) in vain. We can choose not to cooperate with His grace.

Heb. 10:35 – we can have confidence in salvation (predestined to grace), and then throw it away. We can have it, and lose it.

James 5:19-20 – we can be in the truth, and then wander from the truth which means death, unless we are brought back.

2 Peter 3:16-17 – we can be the beloved of God and then lose our stability and carried away with the error of lawless men.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Well, you are contrasting two things concerning election, neither of which Paul said anything about. Faith and works sure were contrasted by Paul, but not in the matter of election.
I already showed you where Paul talks about election/being chosen in terms of being elected to salvation vs. working to earn salvation. Here is where he contrasts being elected through faith vs. works.

Romans 9:11-12
...in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls...

Romans 11:5
...there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works...

Ephesians 2:8-9
...it is by grace you have been saved, through faith...not by works...

Let's stay on point here. I know you know salvation is by faith, not by works. All Protestants know this. The point we're discussing here is election is received through faith (as opposed to works). The grace of election comes through faith, not works. God saves us through the grace of election received through faith in God. This is in direct opposition to being elected/chosen to salvation through the merit of doing righteous works. Faith is the vehicle through which we receive the grace of election. "grace...through faith"-Ephesians 2:8. It's even right there in front of you in the verse you've been using.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
...God chose you...through belief...

The Protestant church has lost the focus of Paul's teaching about election and turned it into a misguided, meaningless, mystical theology. But the simple point is, God saves us by choosing us on the basis of our faith in God, not on the basis of the merit of our righteous works. There's no reason to complicate it beyond this simple truth. That is is the central point Paul is making about election. Let's stop talking about the 'who' and the 'when' of election and just stick to the 'how' and the 'why' of election that Paul teaches and stop needlessly complicating the point. The reformers majored in unnecessarily complicating the simplicity of the gospel and created a lot of faith busting, senseless doctrines.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Consider this, was Jacob elected on the basis of faith?
Yes. Paul explains this in Romans 9:11-12. It's obvious from the life Jacob lived that he certainly wasn't elected on the basis of his works, lol, but instead on the basis of his faith in the promises made to him through Abraham. And that's the point. No reason to complicate the matter beyond that central fact.

And this, was Paul chosen on the basis of faith?
Chosen to salvation? Yes. As I've shown, he himself explains how God's grace in election is received through faith, not through works.

And this, were the 12 disciples chosen on the basis of faith? Did Jacob, Paul, and the 12 disciples get themselves chosen by God based on something or were they chosen by God according to His will and purpose?
Yes, they were chosen on the basis of their faith. The way God planned and intended it to be from the beginning. Paul explains that God's will and purpose is that man be saved by the grace of election received through faith, not by works (Romans 9:11-12). And that it's always been that way. But Protestants make God's will and purpose in election out to be that God decided ahead of time that you will be created to be a believer. They miss the whole point of the faith vs. works argument and wander off into these meaningless, misguided teachings about God choosing who is going to be created a believer and who won't.
 

bbyrd009

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I agree. When we believe in Christ we are chosen by God for salvation, for we are chosen through faith just as the Bible says. The whole point is, faith is the condition through which we are chosen, not through the condition of righteous works.

God ordained it from the very beginning long before creation that the church would be chosen through the way of faith in God, not through the merit of righteous works. In his foreknowledge he just happens to know ahead of time who those people are who will have faith.
25"I did tell you and you don't believe," Jesus answered them. "The works that I do in My Father's name testify about Me.
so, not saying that you dont have a point also, maybe, but seems to me this endless, never finished, never agreed upon debate of "faith v works" is like somehow a chimera, it has a life of its own, been hearing it for 45 years now lol, been on both sides, condemned both sides even, and the solution seems pretty clear now i guess.
It is only by the Grace of God that we are saved! That is not earned but a free gift from God. However, the Bible states, you doing evil works can lose that Grace and therefore lose your salvation. So yes, no works can earn that free gift, but it can be lost. God Bless!
so much for work to make your calling and election sure huh?
y'all might at least contemplate the possibility that your current definition of "saved" is off somehow, ok? Well i mean i dont know about mine either lol, dont get me wrong, but i would ask you both what does "saved" mean to you, practically speaking?
"Going up to heaven to become an immortal after i have died?"
or something along those lines if you dont mind, like a sentence or less ok
 
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Ferris Bueller

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It seems this is your doctrine then: (focusing on the how) To get yourself chosen by God, you believe Him.
That is what Paul teaches. Because your works certainly won't get God to choose you. Paul uses the Patriarchs to illustrate this important truth.

So, you teach that by having faith in God, you get to be chosen by God.
Yes. Because as I've shown you that is what Paul says. God's will and purpose from creation is that man be saved through the grace of election through faith, not saved by the merit of his righteous works.

And having faith in God, means you chose God over false gods, right? That means you choose God, so that God will choose you, right? That means you choose God before God choose you. Is that right?
No, that is not right. Think about it like this. When we elect/choose a President here in the United States he does not choose us, we choose him, and we do that based on the criteria we have set, not him. If he satisfies the criteria we seek we elect/choose him, he does not choose us. In the case of salvation, God has set the criteria upon which he elects/chooses an individual seeking salvation. If you meet that criteria he chooses you, just as he said he would do. That criteria is that you have faith in God's promise, not that you perform righteous works.
 

Ferris Bueller

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so much for work to make your calling and election sure huh?
Making your calling and election sure does not mean working to earn salvation. It means purposely seeking to do works of righteousness that confirm that you are in fact already saved. The life of righteousness does not earn salvation. It shows you to be saved. And so when we see righteous works in our lives we can take comfort that we are at peace with God in salvation through Jesus Christ. Conversely, if we can't confirm our calling and election we can fix that before it's too late.

y'all might at least contemplate the possibility that your current definition of "saved" is off somehow, ok? Well i mean i dont know about mine either lol, dont get me wrong, but i would ask you both what does "saved" mean to you, practically speaking?
Saved means being saved from the penalty of eternal death for the sins we have committed.

"Going up to heaven to become an immortal after i have died?"
That is the end result of being saved. Being saved is being saved from the eternal penalty of your sins and instead living for eternity in the life that God gives.

The bottom line is, you don't get this salvation by working to earn it. You get it by having the sin guilt that condemns you removed through the forgiveness of that sin. You get forgiven by placing your faith in Christ's blood to wash away your record of sin. The result is you are now declared righteous and qualified to reside in the kingdom of God. A kingdom that never ends and where life is full and abundant.
 

Spurgeon's Girl

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Here's a couple my dear:

I'm not your dear.

Matt. 22:14 – Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.

Jesus does say that, but it doesn't address the perseverance of the saints. This is a diversion.

Luke 8:13 – Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

Is this how the RCC teaches you to interpret scripture? Luke 8 verses 11-15 is known as the parable of the Sower. It has a context, which you failed to consider. Cherry picking scripture is a way to get it wrong all of the time. And you walked right into it. Give your posts respect.

Luke 12:42-46 – we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Once again, you provide scripture that does not say what you think it does. This in no way says that one can lose their salvation. Give your posts respect.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”

In what way does this parable teach that one can lose their salvation? Give your posts respect.

John 6:70-71 – Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

You don't seem to understand the doctrine of election. If you had, you would know that God predestined some for glory and others are not.



John 15:1-10 – we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.[/QUOTE]

Romans 11:20-23 says no such thing. It's you imposing your Catholic beliefs upon the scriptures. That's called eisegesis.

20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23
And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

Do you never tire of trying to make the Bible say what you want it to say.


The true vine is another parable. I love them. The problem here is that you are again, trying to make it say what it does not say. Give your posts respect.

John 17:12 – we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.

John Chapter 17, is the prayer that Jesus offered to God the Father on the night before the crucifixion. If you knew your scripture, you would know that the demise of Judas was foretold in the OT. Again, the doctrine of election is something you apparently do not understand.

John 10:27-28 – when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

Do, you a member of the one true church deny that Jesus meant what he said? That is shameful.

1 Cor. 15:1-2 – we can be believers (predestined to grace) but believe in vain. Scripture refutes the novel Protestant theory “once saved, always saved.”

This scripture says that believers can be lost if they believed in vain. HELLO.... That means they never really believed. PERIOD. Give your post respect.

Rom. 13:11 – for salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. If we already have salvation, then how can we only be nearer to it?

This verse does not support a thing you have said. It is therefore ignored.

1 Cor. 6:9-11 – we can be washed, sanctified, and justified, yet Paul still warns us that we can be deceived and become unrighteous.

If you are going to quote scripture, then quote it. These verses tell us about sins that hell worthy, yet in verse 11, you completely lose your point. Paul says that even the likes of these sinners, can be washed and made clean.

2 Cor. 6:1 – we can receive the grace of God (predestined to grace) in vain.

Yet more Catholic paraphrase. It is ignored.

We can choose not to cooperate with His grace. More Catholic made up dogma. Salvation is not a free will decision. It's a gift.

Heb. 10:35 – we can have confidence in salvation (predestined to grace), and then throw it away. We can have it, and lose it.

Hebrews 10:35 says this:

35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.

Why are you adding to scripture?


This is a blatant attempt to misrepresent what the Bible says.

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

James 5:19-20 – we can be in the truth, and then wander from the truth which means death, unless we are brought back.

If you want to quote scripture, then quote it. Your conclusions regarding the scripture have been shown time and time again to be your own ideas, not the scripture.

2 Peter 3:16-17 – we can be the beloved of God and then lose our stability and carried away with the error of lawless men.

Can you tell me what Peter was saying about Paul and whom Peter is addressing? We can be carried away by lawless men such as the Catholic Church, but Jesus protects us.

(Philippians 1:2-6)
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ .


Now, I have asked you to respect your own posts. I do that. I read every scripture for context and proper hermeneutical conclusions. I don't paraphrase the Bible. I care enough about you, to take the enormous amount of time it takes to address the things you say. You should give your own posts the care they require.



 

bbyrd009

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Making your calling and election sure does not mean working to earn salvation. It means purposely seeking to do works of righteousness that confirm that you are in fact already saved. The life of righteousness does not earn salvation. It shows you to be saved. And so when we see righteous works in our lives we can take comfort that we are at peace with God in salvation through Jesus Christ. Conversely, if we can't confirm our calling and election we can fix that before it's too late.
ah, so

Saved means being saved from the penalty of eternal death for the sins we have committed.
hmm

(byrd "Going up to heaven to become an immortal after i have died?")
That is the end result of being saved. Being saved is being saved from the eternal penalty of your sins and instead living for eternity in the life that God gives.
so iow "eternity" = "forever," right? And "saved" means, essentially, "from hell?"

The bottom line is, you don't get this salvation by working to earn it. You get it by having the sin guilt that condemns you removed through the forgiveness of that sin. You get forgiven by placing your faith in Christ's blood to wash away your record of sin. The result is you are now declred righteous and fit to reside in the kingdom of God. A kingdom that never ends and where life is full and abundant.
ah, "sin guilt" is an interesting concept, we might revisit that, but if possible i would like to call your attention to your manner of speech here, if i may; you have made quite a few direct statements, with no qualifications whatsoever, yes?
 

Ferris Bueller

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hmm, you think? id be interested to hear how that goes tbh, never heard Esau and Jacob used in that context. ty
It's in Romans 9:11-12. Jacob and Esau illustrate how it isn't by works that qualify a person to be chosen for salvation by God, for when Jacob was chosen ahead of time and Esau rejected they hadn't done anything yet to determine their fate based on works. Instead, it is the person who is born as the result of the promises made by God that will be chosen. Believers are the one's who are 'born' when they believe the promises of God. They are the one's that are chosen for salvation, not the person 'born' through the effort of their own righteous works. God set it this way ahead of time. I can explain more if you'd like when I'm back on line.
 

Ferris Bueller

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ah, so

hmm

(byrd "Going up to heaven to become an immortal after i have died?")
so iow "eternity" = "forever," right? And "saved" means, essentially, "from hell?"

ah, "sin guilt" is an interesting concept, we might revisit that, but if possible i would like to call your attention to your manner of speech here, if i may; you have made quite a few direct statements, with no qualifications whatsoever, yes?
We'll talk more when I'm back on line.
 
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bbyrd009

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It's in Romans 9:11-12. Jacob and Esau illustrate how it isn't by works that qualify a person to be chosen for salvation by God, for when Jacob was chosen ahead of time and Esau rejected they hadn't done anything yet to determine their fate based on works. Instead, it is the person who is born as the result of the promises made by God that will be chosen. Believers are the one's who are 'born' when they believe the promises of God. They are the one's that are chosen for salvation, not the person 'born' through the effort of their own righteous works. God set it this way ahead of time. I can explain more if you'd like when I'm back on line.
ah well for now im more interested in the other, but i suggest that this is just more intentional misdirection by Paul. But it might also be just as you say. Guess ill hafta dig out muh readin specs lol :)
It's in Romans 9:11-12. Jacob and Esau illustrate how it isn't by works that qualify a person to be chosen for salvation by God
ha well i guess it might seem that way, yes

(when Jacob was chosen and Esau rejected they hadn't done anything yet to determine their fate based on works)
hmm, when was that, ezackly? There might be a v to that effect, dont recall it though

when was Jacob chosen, and when was Esau rejected?
 
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bbyrd009

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It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

really the whole chapter is almost diabolical lol, i guess the opening with all the "cross my heart and hope to die" stuff should be a clue, but im curious at the moment when did Esau serve Jacob?
anyone