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WaterSong

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so Constantine created the Catholic Church at the council of Nicaea?
If you read my post you'll see what I said. As to the founding of the Papal RCC? That occurred in 590 AD under Pope Gregory I.

[sic]"...325 CE: The First Council of Nicaea converged by Roman Emperor Constantine I. The Council attempted to structure church leadership around a model similar to that of the Roman system, and also formalized key articles of faith.

551 CE: At the Council of Chalcedon, the head of the church in Constantinople was declared to be the head of the Eastern branch of the church, equal in authority to the Pope. This effectively was the start of the division of the church into the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic branches.


590 CE: Pope Gregory I initiates his papacy, during which the Catholic Church engages in widespread efforts to convert pagan peoples to Catholicism. This begins a time of enormous political and military power controlled by Catholic popes. This date is marked by some as the beginning of the Catholic Church as we know it today. ..."
Trace the History of the Roman Catholic Church
 

Brakelite

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If you read my post you'll see what I said. As to the founding of the Papal RCC? That occurred in 590 AD under Pope Gregory I.

[sic]"...325 CE: The First Council of Nicaea converged by Roman Emperor Constantine I. The Council attempted to structure church leadership around a model similar to that of the Roman system, and also formalized key articles of faith.

551 CE: At the Council of Chalcedon, the head of the church in Constantinople was declared to be the head of the Eastern branch of the church, equal in authority to the Pope. This effectively was the start of the division of the church into the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic branches.


590 CE: Pope Gregory I initiates his papacy, during which the Catholic Church engages in widespread efforts to convert pagan peoples to Catholicism. This begins a time of enormous political and military power controlled by Catholic popes. This date is marked by some as the beginning of the Catholic Church as we know it today. ..."
Trace the History of the Roman Catholic Church
While there is some truth to that history, I would like to go back to something I spoke to you previously about. Prophecy, and the waymarks that give authenticity to identifying Antichrist.
KJV Revelation 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
That dragon was the same dragon that stood before the woman to destroy the child; that dragon stood there in the guise of the Roman puppet king, Herod. That same Roman power in later centuries in the guise of the emperor Justinian, gave the bishop of Rome his official sanction to rule over all the churches. This power... This Roman seat... This papal throne... Was granted to the bishop of Rome by Justinian as part of what became known as Justinian's Code, a rule of law that would dominated European politics and religion for over a 1000 years. More on that shortly. This took place in 533ad. While the Catholic power in Rome wanted back and forth over the centuries, Justinian's Code laid the legal and prophetic
foundation for the rise of the Papacy.
AD March 533: Justinian's letter to John reads:

"Justinian: victor, pius, fortunate, ever Augustus, to John, the most holy Archbishop and patriarch of the noble city of Rome. Paying honor to the Apostolic See and to Your Holiness, as always has been and is our desire, and honoring your Blessedness as a father, we hasten to bring to the knowledge of Your Holiness all that pertains to the condition of the churches , since it has always been our great aim to safeguard the unity of your Apostolic See and the position of the holy churches of God which now prevails and abides securely without any disturbing trouble. Therefore we have been sedulous to subject and unite all the priests of the Orient throughout its whole extent to the See of Your Holiness. Whatever questions happen to be mooted at present , we have thought necessary to be brought to Your Holiness' knowledge, however clear and unquestionable they might be, and though firmly held and taught by all the clergy in accordance with the doctrine of Your Apostolic See; for we do not suffer that anything which is moored to Your Holiness, however clear and unquestionable, pertaining to the state of the churches, should fail to be known to Your Holiness, as being the head of all the churches. For as we have said before, we are zealous for the increase of the honor and authority of your See in all respects."2 Croly quotes a letter of March 25, 533 from Justinian to Epiphanius where Justinian repeats the parts of the statement above, which had been sent earlier in March, that the Bishop of Rome is: "head of all Bishops and the true and effective corrector of heretics [sic]."

Justinian's Code in the edicts of the "Novellae;" in the preamble of the ninth it states:



"that the elder Rome was the founder of the laws; so was it not to be questioned that in her was the supremacy of the pontificate." In the 131st; chap. II, on the ecclesiastical titles and privileges it states: "We therefore decree that the most holy Pope of the elder Rome is the first of all the priesthood, and that the most blessed Archbishop of Constantinople, the new Rome, shall hold the second rank after the holy Apostolic chair of the elder Rome."

Pagan Rome, not the Apostles not Christ, laid the legal political and prophetic foundation for the establishment of the Papacy. 533ad was the date of the legal granting of civil and religious power to the bishop of Rome.

There is a twist to all this however, because Rome at that time was under an occupying power, and enemies to the Byzantine emperor, it was necessary that the city be liberated before the pontiff could exercise his new found authority. Legal authority is issues unless it could be put into effect right? This is where prophecy comes to the fore. This took place in 538ad when Bellisarius defeated the Goths and that Arian kingdom could no longer exercise power over the bishop, for until that time the Gothic king Theodosius had the final say on appointing bishops. So you can mark 538ad on your prophetic calendar.
Prophecy gives us however a clue that history attests to as a remarkable confirmation of the identity of the beast.

KJV Revelation 13:5
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The above time span is repeated 7 times in scripture in the form of 1260 days, times, time and half a time ( 3 and half years), and 42 months. (
Daniel 7:25; 12:7 Rev. 11:2,3; 12:6, 14; 13:5.
)
Not only in reference to the life of the Antichrist, but also to the time when the church is persecuted by the Antichrist and is therefore in survival mode in the wilderness, Revelation 12:6.
So, the question, did anything happen to the Papacy 1260 days, 42 months, or times time and half a time later,? No. Not if you take those times as literal. But if you use scripture to interpret scripture, precedent reveals that one prophetic day equals one literal year. Then the question is, did anything take place 1260 years after 538ad? And the answer is an emphatic yes.
 
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Brakelite

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Continued....1798 was a year of dramatic change for the Papacy. This was for several reasons.
According to Daniel 7:25, the little horn was to have power over the saints (the church) for 1260 days, or in real time, 1260 years. The rule of the papacy, as I mentioned in a previous post, began in 538AD with the final expulsion of the Ostrogoths from Rome, the last of the 3 horns to be uprooted. It’s rule continued until 1798 when Napoleon’s general, Berthier, entered Rome and took the pope captive. The college of cardinals was disbanded and Rome declared a republic. All papal states were confiscated. The pope died in exile 2 years later. To all intents and purposes, the Roman Catholic church as a church/state union was finished. No longer was there a pope holding civil authority in Rome, and thus the secular authority she used to try and execute who she branded as heretics was over. Exactly 1260 years after it began.
This represents another prophetic fulfillment.
KJV Revelation 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

When the Catholic Church lost its civil authority, all political Governments in Europe thought she was finished. Many celebrated that at long last the bondage they were held by papal authority was at an end. These prophecies, among several others, give powerful historic authenticity to the reformers testimony to the identity of Antichrist.
 
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theefaith

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No, I didn't mean ambiguity in your understanding, but just in the way that I derived it from your explanation. Again, it may just be me not following correctly?
But, I believe that one thing is clear, you believe that Jesus is God, but not in the same way that all other humans are created in the Father's image. You believe that Jesus is divine, and thus, omniscient, omnipresent and able to create from nothing, but other humans are none of these. Humans have a spiritual dimension to them (unlike any other creature), which is the image of God, but they are not any form of deity, but Jesus is deity.

eph 4:5 one faith: catholic and divine
 

theefaith

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If you read my post you'll see what I said. As to the founding of the Papal RCC? That occurred in 590 AD under Pope Gregory I.

[sic]"...325 CE: The First Council of Nicaea converged by Roman Emperor Constantine I. The Council attempted to structure church leadership around a model similar to that of the Roman system, and also formalized key articles of faith.

551 CE: At the Council of Chalcedon, the head of the church in Constantinople was declared to be the head of the Eastern branch of the church, equal in authority to the Pope. This effectively was the start of the division of the church into the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic branches.


590 CE: Pope Gregory I initiates his papacy, during which the Catholic Church engages in widespread efforts to convert pagan peoples to Catholicism. This begins a time of enormous political and military power controlled by Catholic popes. This date is marked by some as the beginning of the Catholic Church as we know it today. ..."
Trace the History of the Roman Catholic Church

but a council is a gathering together of the bishops of the church at the approval of the pope, so the church existed before the council! Peter was the first pope!
 

WaterSong

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Continued....1798 was a year of dramatic change for the Papacy. This was for several reasons.
According to Daniel 7:25, the little horn was to have power over the saints (the church) for 1260 days, or in real time, 1260 years. The rule of the papacy, as I mentioned in a previous post, began in 538AD with the final expulsion of the Ostrogoths from Rome, the last of the 3 horns to be uprooted. It’s rule continued until 1798 when Napoleon’s general, Berthier, entered Rome and took the pope captive. The college of cardinals was disbanded and Rome declared a republic. All papal states were confiscated. The pope died in exile 2 years later. To all intents and purposes, the Roman Catholic church as a church/state union was finished. No longer was there a pope holding civil authority in Rome, and thus the secular authority she used to try and execute who she branded as heretics was over. Exactly 1260 years after it began.
This represents another prophetic fulfillment.
KJV Revelation 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

When the Catholic Church lost its civil authority, all political Governments in Europe thought she was finished. Many celebrated that at long last the bondage they were held by papal authority was at an end. These prophecies, among several others, give powerful historic authenticity to the reformers testimony to the identity of Antichrist.
Outstanding! :) Well done.
 
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WaterSong

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eph 4:5 one faith: catholic and divine
No, that is not what the scripture states. It is false to claim that is what is in Ephesians 4:5

All you have to do to prove the Catholic church faith is the faith Jesus preached is prove in scripture, Jesus words only, the following was taught by Jesus. And please don't excuse, any one of these is doctrine of the church. If the church was founded on Peter, through Jesus leading, then the teachings of Jesus would be subsumed by Peter in order to be the first "pope" of the Catholic church.

*Office of the pope
*college of cardinals
*Mary worship
*veneration of the dead, worship of artifact, prayer beseeching the dead to intercede between sinner and Christ
*purgatory
*limbo
*indulgences
*infant baptism
 

WaterSong

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but a council is a gathering together of the bishops of the church at the approval of the pope, so the church existed before the council! Peter was the first pope!
Not at all true.
Now you're really stretching beyond what is historic record.
 

theefaith

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Outstanding! :) Well done.

nice theory

I think mystery Babylon was the Roman Empire and fell in one hour refering to the conversion of Constantine who saw a vision of the cross, with this sign thou shalt conquer!
 

theefaith

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Outstanding! :) Well done.

According to Daniel 7:25, the little horn was to have power over the saints (the church) for 1260 days, or in real time, 1260 years.

How do you get years from this exactly?
How could a little horn live this long?

All the condemned heretics are by some extravagance are called the saints?
Wycliffe, hus, albigensians, waldensians, Huguenots, Tyndall, luther, calvin, Henry 8 and Cranmer, iconoclasts, and all heretics all teaching false doctrines all claiming biblical authority by the power of the Holy Spirit!
 

theefaith

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Outstanding! :) Well done.

All the condemned heretics are by some extravagance are called the saints?
Wycliffe, hus, albigensians, waldensians, Huguenots, Tyndall, luther, calvin, Henry 8 and Cranmer, iconoclasts, and all heretics all teaching false doctrines all claiming biblical authority by the power of the Holy Spirit!
 

WaterSong

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According to Daniel 7:25, the little horn was to have power over the saints (the church) for 1260 days, or in real time, 1260 years.

How do you get years from this exactly?
How could a little horn live this long?
Well, lets see. 538 A.D began Papal authority in Rome due to their power bestowal by the eastern Roman Emperor Justinian.
That authority lasted for 1260 years until in 1798 A.D. Napoleon’s army took the sitting Pope Pius VI captive. Thanks to the Jesuits. (Which is why it is odd that a Jesuit was elected Pope in the 20th century).

All the condemned heretics are by some extravagance are called the saints?
Wycliffe, hus, albigensians, waldensians, Huguenots, Tyndall, luther, calvin, Henry 8 and Cranmer, iconoclasts, and all heretics all teaching false doctrines all claiming biblical authority by the power of the Holy Spirit!
Please, for the sake of clarity and context for our readers who may not know, condemned as heretics by whom?
 

theefaith

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No, that is not what the scripture states. It is false to claim that is what is in Ephesians 4:5

All you have to do to prove the Catholic church faith is the faith Jesus preached is prove in scripture, Jesus words only, the following was taught by Jesus. And please don't excuse, any one of these is doctrine of the church. If the church was founded on Peter, through Jesus leading, then the teachings of Jesus would be subsumed by Peter in order to be the first "pope" of the Catholic church.

*Office of the pope Matt 16:18
*college of cardinals Matt 18:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-22
*Mary worship (not a catholic doctrine)
*veneration of the dead, worship of artifact, prayer beseeching the dead to intercede between sinner and Christ (not a catholic doctrine) prayer: rev 5:8
Saints are not dead:
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

*purgatory 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

*limbo Jn 3:5

*indulgences Jn1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

*infant baptism acts 2:38-39
 

theefaith

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Well, lets see. 538 A.D began Papal authority in Rome due to their power bestowal by the eastern Roman Emperor Justinian.
That authority lasted for 1260 years until in 1798 A.D. Napoleon’s army took the sitting Pope Pius VI captive. Thanks to the Jesuits. (Which is why it is odd that a Jesuit was elected Pope in the 20th century).

Please, for the sake of clarity and context for our readers who may not know, condemned as heretics by whom?

the authority of Jesus Christ thru Peter the apostles and their successors
Lk 10:16 the chief duty of the church is to wield the two edge sword one to define and teach the truth, the other to condemn error otherwise Christ would be accused of teaching error!

I don’t know of any Jesuit popes?
The last pope was can verify as being validly elected and coronated was Pius 12th
 

WaterSong

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the authority of Jesus Christ thru Peter the apostles and their successors
Lk 10:16 the chief duty of the church is to wield the two edge sword one to define and teach the truth, the other to condemn error otherwise Christ would be accused of teaching error!
That's not what Luke 10:16 says: "The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
But an excellent reference none the less. Let us incorporate that scripture from Jesus teachings into the prior question I asked you that you've thus far avoided answering.
To reiterate and from my post #148:
All you have to do to prove the Catholic church faith is the faith Jesus preached is prove in scripture, Jesus words only, the following was taught by Jesus. And please don't excuse, any one of these is doctrine of the church. If the church was founded on Peter, through Jesus leading, then the teachings of Jesus would be subsumed by Peter in order to be the first "pope" of the Catholic church.

*Office of the pope
*college of cardinals
*Mary worship
*veneration of the dead, worship of artifact, prayer beseeching the dead to intercede between sinner and Christ
*purgatory
*limbo
*indulgences
*infant baptism


I don’t know of any Jesuit popes?
The last pope was can verify as being validly elected and coronated was Pius 12th
The first Jesuit Pope given Papal authority was Jorge Mario Bergoglio, in 2013.
 

101G

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Addressing the OP, looking at your topic, I guess that include me.... (smile). you made this statement,
Athanasius Creed!

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.
so you say that God is a TRINITY, correct... listen to this scripture, Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

so we have the,
a. the Lord God, person #1, the Father, and,

b. his Spirit, person #2, the Holy Spirit, and,

c. ME, well the Son, for that the only one left, who was sent, correct.

is this your trinity of whom you speak? if I'm wrong in placement of identifying the person above please feel free to correct the order. because as you said, "Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith", so if my salvation depend on this I want to be correct.

now, if the order is correct, the me in the verse who was sent is the "Son". is this correct, yes or no?

I'll be Looking For your answer, thanks in advance.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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theefaith

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That's not what Luke 10:16 says: "The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
But an excellent reference none the less. Let us incorporate that scripture from Jesus teachings into the prior question I asked you that you've thus far avoided answering.
To reiterate and from my post #148:
All you have to do to prove the Catholic church faith is the faith Jesus preached is prove in scripture, Jesus words only, the following was taught by Jesus. And please don't excuse, any one of these is doctrine of the church. If the church was founded on Peter, through Jesus leading, then the teachings of Jesus would be subsumed by Peter in order to be the first "pope" of the Catholic church.

*Office of the pope
*college of cardinals
*Mary worship
*veneration of the dead, worship of artifact, prayer beseeching the dead to intercede between sinner and Christ
*purgatory
*limbo
*indulgences
*infant baptism


The first Jesuit Pope given Papal authority was Jorge Mario Bergoglio, in 2013.

oh no I can’t see him or any one since Pius 12th as a validly elected and coronation successor of Peter
 
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theefaith

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there have been anti-popes and imposters in history, invalid in election, I believe Pius 12th was murdered and the Vatican taken over by the Freemasons all starting in 1958 the Alta vandeta
 

WaterSong

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there have been anti-popes and imposters in history, invalid in election, I believe Pius 12th was murdered and the Vatican taken over by the Freemasons all starting in 1958 the Alta vandeta
Interesting.
You're not a practicing Catholic then? (Member of the Latin Rite church)