Discerning : The Water Cults

[Truther]

You may have been saved during baptism, if that is the moment you believed. But baptism didn't save you and neither did the words spoken over you. You want to put God in a little box where he can only save during a certain ceremony? God refuses to fit.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....

6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all...

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole...

.18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.


Peter just had a bad habit of using and verbally speaking the name of Jesus Christ to do all these things in Acts.

He was told to not say "Jesus" when doing these exploits anymore.

Kinda like what modern Christendom tells us today.

 

[Pearl]

Poor thing.

They buried you alive.

That must have been dreadful.

Kinda strange being buried with Christ AFTER being risen at an earlier time, huh?

More rubbish. Obviously you haven't been baptised.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

More rubbish. Obviously you haven't been baptised.

With the true baptism that matters, I agree

 

[mailmandan]

I like Campbells soup.

Anyway, I follow Acts 2:38.

The name of Jesus Christ during water baptism was Peter's solution to remit sins.

The same was Paul's solution to be baptized INTO Christ.

If you don't get INTO Christ via baptism, you are not in Christ.

You have not died with Christ, are not buried with Christ and are not going to be resurrected by Christ.

You follow your biased misinterpretation of Acts 2:38, which results in works salvation. Your gospel is water logged. Go back and read post #128. You need to place your faith in the Savior God and not the water god. We are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:13) In what sense are believers "water" baptized into Christ? In the same the Israelites were "baptized into Moses." (1 Corinthians 10:2) Not literally water baptized into the body of Moses here and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people, just as water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior.

It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

Romans 6:3 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
Romans 6:4 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

As long as you continue to confuse the symbol (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism), you will remain confused. You and the CoC incorrectly conclude that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place in the waters of baptism, yet redemption, the forgiveness of sin is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism. Redemption is through His blood (and not through plain ordinary H20) and the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE before we are water baptized. Acts 10:43 - "..everyone who believes in Him receives remission of sins." Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Therefore, the Biblical conclusion is that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE IN HIM before we are water baptized.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You follow your biased misinterpretation of Acts 2:38, which results in works salvation. Your gospel is water logged. Go back and read post #128. You need to place your faith in the Savior God and not the water god. We are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:13) In what sense are believers "water" baptized into Christ? In the same the Israelites were "baptized into Moses." (1 Corinthians 10:2) Not literally water baptized into the body of Moses here and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people, just as water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior.

It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

Romans 6:3 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
Romans 6:4 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

As long as you continue to confuse the symbol (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism), you will remain confused. You and the CoC incorrectly conclude that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place in the waters of baptism, yet redemption, the forgiveness of sin is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism. Redemption is through His blood (and not through plain ordinary H20) and the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE before we are water baptized. Acts 10:43 - "..everyone who believes in Him receives remission of sins." Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Therefore, the Biblical conclusion is that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE IN HIM before we are water baptized.

I like how Luke finishes the account in acts 2. “And as many as who believed were baptized”

it was the believers who were baptized, because they relieved remission of sin, because they repented, they had faith, and out of this faith they recieved the gift of the spirit, and out of their love and appreciation, they were baptized,

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What did Jesus say?

Mat 10:32, Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

So then, confessing Jesus in water baptism in Jesus' Name can indeed be salvational for the one who receives the ordinance.

TYPICAL! Corrupting the Word by adding <<in water baptism>> to the Word of Jesus "confess Me", that's it and that's all it is, your rant.

 

[Truther]

More rubbish. Obviously you haven't been baptised.

I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sins on Oct 7, 1979.

 

[Truther]

You follow your biased misinterpretation of Acts 2:38, which results in works salvation. Your gospel is water logged. Go back and read post #128. You need to place your faith in the Savior God and not the water god. We are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:13) In what sense are believers "water" baptized into Christ? In the same the Israelites were "baptized into Moses." (1 Corinthians 10:2) Not literally water baptized into the body of Moses here and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people, just as water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior.

It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

Romans 6:3 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
Romans 6:4 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

As long as you continue to confuse the symbol (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism), you will remain confused. You and the CoC incorrectly conclude that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place in the waters of baptism, yet redemption, the forgiveness of sin is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism. Redemption is through His blood (and not through plain ordinary H20) and the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE before we are water baptized. Acts 10:43 - "..everyone who believes in Him receives remission of sins." Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Therefore, the Biblical conclusion is that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE IN HIM before we are water baptized.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There is nothing to interpret here.

No mystery, nothing.

What else is the verse saying or not saying?

 

[mailmandan]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There is nothing to interpret here.

No mystery, nothing.

What else is the verse saying or not saying?

I already thoroughly explained your pet verse to you in post #128 and I also properly harmonized Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine, but I guess you are unable to see anything beyond your biased church doctrine and there is a reason for that.

 

[Renniks]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....

6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all...

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole...

.18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.


Peter just had a bad habit of using and verbally speaking the name of Jesus Christ to do all these things in Acts.

He was told to not say "Jesus" when doing these exploits anymore.

Kinda like what modern Christendom tells us today.

Where does modern Christendom tell us not to use Jesus' name?
And yes, Peter healed in Jesus name, but it was not the words he said that healed people, it was God who healed people, through Peter's faith.
16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.

If a priest baptized you for example, but that priest secretly was an atheist, would his using Jesus' name mean anything at all? This is so simple and obvious. I don't know why you are arguing against it.

 

[Behold]

You think folks are saved by water alone...that's your problem.

Not at all.
See, noone is "saved by water" so, its impossible for me to "think" they are..
However, there is "water cult" theology that teaches that the "water washes away you sin", which is a lie.
And this same water cult theology teaches that its necessary for you to be immersed or sprinkled to receive the Holy Spirit or the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
This also is a lie, that is created by one demonic bible that changed this verse...."born of water" to "born AGAIN of or by water".
So, that teaching is a doctrine of devils., and that bible is cursed of God. Galatians 1:8.

 

[Behold]

I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sins on Oct 7, 1979.

So are you saying that you believe that WATER caused the= "remission of your sins"?

 

[Behold]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
There is nothing to interpret here.
No mystery, nothing.

Lets look at it again..

Peter when preaching at the Jewish Feast of Pentecost,

1.) The gift of the Spirit was poured out on Peter and the 120, and that was BEFORE he preaches.

As a matter of fact, the first thing he tells them is an explanation for why he is speaking in tongues..

Notice, he was not water baptized first, and neither were the 120.

THEN

THEN........ he begins to talk about Messiah.

After that, you get the "water".

So, what the water cults teach.... is that you get the water first, and in that process, you get what Peter has, tho he and the 120 got it without being water baptized.

Thats not an accident.
Its not an accident that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as RIGHTEOUSNESS, and he was never water baptized.
And ditto, the dying thief on the Cross.

Its like this reader.
God came here and provides us with the Gift of Salvation, and we receive this Gift by Faith, and our faith is counted AS Righteousness.
That is the "Gospel". The Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul teaches.. "Justification BY FAith, without works"....And Paul received this true gospel from JESUS., well after Acts 2.

Peter, in Acts 2 didnt have the revelation that Paul had, and that is why in Acts 10 God has to give Peter a VISION that brings him up to speed, as at that time, nearly a decade after ACTs 2:38, ...Peter STILL DIDNT KNOW that Gentiles could be saved.
He learned it eventually..... and by Acts 15 there was general theological agreement between all the Apostles.

What is the moral of Acts 2:38? Its this. Peter can't preach what Peter does not yet Know., and yet, the water cults are still preaching this same message of Water, 2000 yrs after Peter stopped preaching it.
Some are preaching it on this forum, as a matter of fact.

 

[justbyfaith]

See, no one <fify> is "saved by water"

Apparently Noah and his family were (1 Peter 3:20).

However, there is "water cult" theology that teaches that the "water washes away you sin", which is a lie.

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

And this same water cult theology teaches that its necessary for you to be immersed or sprinkled to receive the Holy Spirit or the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

I would say that a man can receive the Holy Spirit by asking, seeking, knocking (Luke 11:9-13).

However, the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who will receive baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

This also is a lie, that is created by one demonic bible that changed this verse...."born of water" to "born AGAIN of or by water".

The kjv is inspired by the Holy Ghost, I'm sorry to tell you. And your contention that it is demonic places you dangerously close to blaspheming the Holy Ghost if it doesn't carry you over the line. For that, unpardonable, sin, amounts to attributing to the devil or demons what is of the Holy Ghost. He will not forgive you for that.

But I would suggest that you look at 2 Samuel 14:14 and Acts of the Apostles 3:19. For Jesus offers you the equivalent of forgiveness now.

So, that teaching is a doctrine of devils., and that bible is cursed of God. Galatians 1:8.

The reality is that you have rejected that Bible (the kjv) in order to heap for yourself teachers (in the translators of other Bibles) to tell you what your itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3).

Peter when preaching at the Jewish Feast of Pentecost,

1.) The gift of the Spirit was poured out on Peter and the 120, and that was BEFORE he preaches.

As a matter of fact, the first thing he tells them is an explanation for why he is speaking in tongues..

Notice, he was not water baptized first, and neither were the 120.

Peter and the 120 were baptized at the juncture of John 4:1-2; about 2-3 years before the day of Pentecost rolled around.

What is the moral of Acts 2:38? Its this. Peter can't preach what Peter does not yet Know.,

What you are saying is that Jesus must have given Peter himself the wrong impression.

So, you're saying that Jesus miscommunicated to Peter...and therefore wasn't that great of a teacher.

 

[Behold]

Apparently Noah and his family were (1 Peter 3:20).

Peter and the 120 were baptized at the juncture of John 4:1-2; about 2-3 years before the day of Pentecost rolled around.

.

Need some attention, do you?
Poor thing....>You've sit there all day with nothing to do, as i didnt write a Thread today.
You finally freaked out and came back to this one.
Im not surprised.
And as i was telling you....If you were a "forum pastor" or a real teacher, you would not spend all your time chasing me on this Forum... Instead you would write Threads......but you dont.

So Listen..
First, the ARK saved Noah and the family, as God told them to build the ARK, for this purpose.
The ARK represents Salvation.
A fool would teach that what Killed all the people in the world, A WATER FLOOD, is what saved Noah.
Noah was in the safety of the ARK, or he would have drowned, along with all the others who were killed by the water.
The ARK is their salvation, the water is their DEATH, if they step outside that ARK.

The CROSS is our ARK of safety = against the "day of judgement".
Water Baptism can't protect you from the Wrath of God.
Believe it.

Also, No bible or greek text or even the Latin Vulgate teaches that peter and the 120 were water baptized.
In fact your water cult teaches that the gifts the 120 and Peter were producing before Peter preached at Pentecost, can only begin at water baptism, and Peter and the 120 were not baptized that day....YET< they had the Gift.

So that is me, and the dying thief, and Pearl, and the 120, and Peter, who were all born again, and were not water Baptized.

 

[justbyfaith]

Need some attention, do you?
Poor thing....>You've sit there all day with nothing to do, as i didnt write a Thread today.
You finally freaked out and came back to this one.
Im not surprised.
And as i was telling you....If you were a "forum pastor" or a real teacher, you would not spend all your time chasing me on this Forum... Instead you would write Threads......but you dont.

You think too highly of yourself.

I am not "following you around" on these forums.

I routinely go to every thread that has been recently posted in, with a few exceptions, and post my thoughts on what has been recently said.

So Listen..
First, the ARK saved Noah and the family, as God told them to build the ARK, for this purpose.
The ARK represents Salvation.
A fool would teach that what Killed all the people in the world, A WATER FLOOD, is what saved Noah.
Noah was in the safety of the ARK, or he would have drowned, along with all the others who were killed by the water.
The ARK is their salvation, the water is their DEATH, if they step outside that ARK.

Clearly, Noah and his family were saved by water.

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The CROSS is our ARK of safety = against the "day of judgement".
Water Baptism can't protect you from the Wrath of God.
Believe it.

I don't believe it.

While the water does not have any magical powers, baptism in Jesus' Name is an identification with Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection; and as such, it is a confession of Jesus before men.

Such a thing is salvational according to Matthew 10:32 and Luke 12:8.

Also, No bible <snip> teaches that peter and the 120 were water baptized.

The kjv does and I am certain that every other Bible does not omit John 4:1-2 from its pages.

Are you going to acknowledge what is written in the holy scriptures are are you going to continue to spout your doctrine that is in contradiction to the holy scriptures?

 

[Behold]

Clearly, Noah and his family were saved by water.

While the water does not have any magical powers, baptism in Jesus' Name is an identification with Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection; and as such, it is a confession of Jesus before men.

Noah and family were kept away from what killed everyone else.
Use your brain., dont just live in cult commentaries.
The Ark is the Cross, in their Case.
In our Case the Cross is the Ark.

And now you dont believe that the water has the power to save, as you told me recently.
So, you flipped your theology again.
Tomorrow, or next post, you'll be back in cult land, telling us that water saves, or that we aren't saved if we have not been........... water, water, water, water.

 

[justbyfaith]

Noah and family were kept away from what killed everyone else.
Use your brain., dont just live in cult commentaries.
The Ark is the Cross, in their Case.
In our Case the Cross is the Ark.

And now you dont believe that the water has the power to save, as you told me recently.
So, you flipped your theology again.
Tomorrow, or next post, you'll be back in cult land, telling us that water saves, or that we aren't saved if we have not been........... water, water, water, water.

Allow me to clarify my position...

I believe that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission has the power to save...

But that it is not exclusively the only means by which a man can be saved.

Consider.

Those who merely believe "should not perish" (John 3:16).

Those who believe and are baptized "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).

Those who call upon the name of the Lord "shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

While in New Testament days, people usually called upon the name of the Lord at the time of baptism (see Acts of the Apostles 22:16).

So then, merely believing is iffy; while believing and being baptized is more absolute of an assurance.

And calling on the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for salvation is also absolute.

Therefore, a person can be saved through faith alone.

But if you want absolute assurance of your salvation, I would recommend also being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (and/or calling on the name of the Lord).

The need for this being, not necessarily salvation itself; but for the purpose of wearing a solid helmet on the day of battle (1 Thessalonians 5:8, Ephesians 6:17).

 

[justbyfaith]

Use your brain., dont just live in cult commentaries.

I got my interpretation not from any commentary; but from a literal understanding of the text.

 

[Behold]

Allow me to clarify my position...

I believe that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission has the power to save...

"water saves" is a """"""doctrine of devils"""" its also Galatians 1:8 that tries to replace the Cross and the Blood of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, with .. the gospel of water.
"water saves".
And that is JW theology and "cult of the virgin" theology.
Its not of God.

See, you just said that WATER has = the power to save.
Well, only God has the power to save, and He only offers Salvation as the Blood Atonement.
Listen...
God did not come here to shed blood to then be corrected 2000 yrs later by spiritually darkened dark lights who preach in public, that "water saves".

What you are teaching-preaching....... denies and contradicts the Cross.