Once Saved Always Saved

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

I know you know what I meant there.

Tong
R3242[/QUOTE]
Honestly if you received OSAS doctrine..
I doubt you started off with the Gospel of the kingdom...Which is to put confidence in Him.
For you wouldn't be much disagreement in terms of sanctification.

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

The Parson said:
Well, believing is a cognitive action, therefore a work. You can't just say it isn't for making your point... Think about it...

Hi Parson...
One of the problems Osas'ers will have
Is distinguishing between Works to earn Salvation from effort.

For example my brother says He will baby sit my Children at His house for free...

But in order to get my free gift...there is much effort involved...I must get my children ready, pick them up, put them in their car seats, drive to His house, knock on the door, and throw them inside and run before He changes His mind...lol...just kidding on the last part.

But His gift is still free....there is nothing I did to earn it.

Tong2020 · May 13, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Look nowhere else for assurance. The only assurance there is found in Jesus. If that is not more than enough and we still look to be assured by anything else, then we have a problem.

Click to expand...

I think you have 'security' and 'assurance' mixed up. 'Security' of salvation is what is found in Jesus, because of the effectiveness and permanence of his ministry (as opposed to the Levitical ministry). The 'assurance' that you are saved comes from the change that Christ's ministry is effecting in you and how you act. Peter says if you have the qualities of the Spirit in increasing measure you gain assurance of your calling and election. That's how you know you have the Holy Spirit in you in salvation.....by how you act. How you act gives you the assurance you really are saved.

Well, Jesus is both my security and my assurance. And I know and believe that He lives in me. How could I ever desire to lose Him? Why I am secured and assured is all of that.

<<<That's how you know you have the Holy Spirit in you in salvation.....by how you act.>>>

Perhaps. But that is not as assuring as Jesus being in me.

Besides what you say there is about the matter of “knowing”, different from what is is already actually is. And knowing that, sure is a good thing and uplifts. But it is not that which make the reality that one have the Holy Spirit or not.

Tong
R3244

The Parson · May 13, 2021

Corlove13 said:
One of the problems Osas'ers will have
Is distinguishing between Works to earn Salvation from effort.

Aw, gee whiz. An effort is a work for crying out loud. You're splitting hairs off a bald man.

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Well, Jesus is both my security and my assurance. And I know and believe that He lives in me. How could I ever desire to lose Him? Why I am secured and assured is all of that.

<<<That's how you know you have the Holy Spirit in you in salvation.....by how you act.>>>

Perhaps. But that is not as assuring as Jesus being in me.

Besides what you say there is about the matter of “knowing”, different from what is is already actually is. And knowing that, sure is a good thing and uplifts. But it is not that which make the reality that one have the Holy Spirit or not.

Tong
R3244

Of course knowing Is....

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

The Parson said:
Aw, gee whiz. An effort is a work for crying out loud. You're splitting hairs off a bald man.

But it's not work to Earn the free gift is it?

The Parson · May 13, 2021

Hey folks, you're promoting a doctrine that originated in the Roman catholic church. That in itself should make you want to reexamine what you're believing.

Corlove13 said:
But it's not work to Earn the free gift is it?

A work by any other name would still spell a work. A work, is a work, is a work. And that's what you're relying on. A work...

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Well, Jesus is both my security and my assurance. And I know and believe that He lives in me. How could I ever desire to lose Him? Why I am secured and assured is all of that.

<<<That's how you know you have the Holy Spirit in you in salvation.....by how you act.>>>

Perhaps. But that is not as assuring as Jesus being in me.

Besides what you say there is about the matter of “knowing”, different from what is is already actually is. And knowing that, sure is a good thing and uplifts. But it is not that which make the reality that one have the Holy Spirit or not.

Tong
R3244

Hi

Tong2020 said:
Well, Jesus is both my security and my assurance. And I know and believe that He lives in me. How could I ever desire to lose Him? Why I am secured and assured is all of that.

<<<That's how you know you have the Holy Spirit in you in salvation.....by how you act.>>>

Perhaps. But that is not as assuring as Jesus being in me.

Besides what you say there is about the matter of “knowing”, different from what is is already actually is. And knowing that, sure is a good thing and uplifts. But it is not that which make the reality that one have the Holy Spirit or not.

Tong
R3244

The Parson said:
Hey folks, you're promoting a doctrine that originated in the Roman catholic church. That in itself should make you want to reexamine what you're believing.

A work by any other name would still spell a work. A work, is a work, is a work. And that's what you're relying on. A work...

Ok, but scripture is referring to works to earn righteousness...not effort

Ferris Bueller · May 13, 2021

Tong2020 said:
I am not getting that?

That you can not separate works from salvation. And how that is not a works gospel.

Ferris Bueller · May 13, 2021

Tong2020 said:
All it means is that Jesus was telling is that true believing is one that is continuing and enduring, not that which comes from man which is not.

Tong
R3240

Well, the Galatians had true believing and they didn't continue and endure.

Ferris Bueller · May 13, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Nope. Apparently it seems you fail to understand what it means that it abides, continues and endures, for you speak of it as one that may cease and not continue.

Tong
R3241

The Galatians did not remain.

Ferris Bueller · May 13, 2021

The Parson said:
Well, believing is a cognitive action, therefore a work. You can't just say it isn't for making your point... Think about it...

I'm just going by what Paul said. Trusting God for justification is opposed to and completely different than working the works of the law for justification. Paul said that, not me.

The Parson · May 13, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
That you can not separate works from salvation. And how that is not a works gospel.

Oh Ferris, any salvation that relies on us keeping ourselves is a works salvation my friend...

Tong2020 · May 13, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
I did not say it proves anything except that those in v.22, Jesus will say to them “I NEVER KNEW YOU”. If you can’t see what Jesus was saying there, or does not understand what “NEVER” means, or perhaps what “KNEW” means, is something I think only the Holy Spirit can do something about.

Click to expand...

'Never' is not the point in contention. As I pointed out in another post, the contention lies in who he was talking to, and which Biblical use of 'knowing' Jesus was using. Were these a particular group of people who never knew him (see the parallel passage in Luke 13:25-27)? And was he referring to Jesus not knowing them intimately, and so they never matured and fell away, or not knowing them in salvation and so were never saved? See, it's not as cut and dry as Osas makes it out to be. It's a mistake to jump to the conclusion that Jesus was writing hard and fast doctrine about every single person who is associated with him in some way, but who does not live for him. Same goes for 1 John 2:19.

<<<As I pointed out in another post, the contention lies in who he was talking to, and which Biblical use of 'knowing' Jesus was using. Were these a particular group of people who never knew him (see the parallel passage in Luke 13:25-27)? >>>

And I already pointed out that the “know” there refers to a personal relationship.

Also, the Luke 13 passage is not really talking about the same thing as that what Jesus talks about in the Mt.7 passage.

Tong
R3245

Tong2020 · May 13, 2021

Wrangler said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
So in other words you are saying in effect that we are saved by works, is that right?

Click to expand...

Absolutely not! Work <> Works. What part of this do you not get?

Did you not say that for you faith is works, you call internal works? Or perhaps to be more accurate, you are saying in effect that we are saved by (internal) works? Would that be better?

Tong
R3245

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

The Parson said:
Oh Ferris, any salvation that relies on us keeping ourselves is a works salvation my friend...

Jesus didn't do the works He did to earn His resurrection but because He loved His Father and wanted to please Him.

Do you agree...

When you make your bed up...are you earning anything. When you help your mother out by moving the couch is your motive always to earn? Or because you love her?

So no, all deed are not the same....before the people believed the Source was their natural ability[flesh] to keep the Law.....

But scriptures give the reason why That didn't work. And men would definitely have something to boast about. So it is God who justifies and is the Justifier of all. And all boasting would be in Him.

As Paul said not I, but Christ who lives in me

Tong2020 · May 13, 2021

Wrangler said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<what purpose does the Great Commission serve?>>>

It’s so that the lost sheep who are scattered will hear the gospel of the Shepherd.

Click to expand...

Hearing is an action, a verb; work, it is. And this denial of necessary action on our part is at the heart of OSAS.

Yes hearing is an action done by the person. No issue there. And according to you that that is work, it being a verb, an action.

But how can one who is rendered dead hear? Can you tell me? He can’t, right? Can you do anything about that or can you do any work to be able to do the work of hearing? Too much of what work man can do concerning his salvation. He can’t even do anything about hearing.

Tong
R3247

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

The Parson said:
Aw, gee whiz. An effort is a work for crying out loud. You're splitting hairs off a bald man.

And by the same token you are saying Christ made one receive His Gift......So we are all robots with no choices.

kcnalp · May 13, 2021

Thank you so much OSASers for saying I can NEVER be unsaved! Wish I could say the same for you.

Corlove13 · May 13, 2021

The Parson said:
Aw, gee whiz. An effort is a work for crying out loud. You're splitting hairs off a bald man.

It's not only not work to earn His baby sitting
.....but
from the scripture assuming we both have in mind ...its speaking of the Source of Salvation.

We are talking about being quickened to Life
Being born.

Another words it was not their direct work by their flesh[natural abilities] to keep the Law.

It was through Christ Jesus obeying His Father and His direct work in dying on the cross and rising from the dead.......

And it is which we by, we are able to receive His Conquering Spirit to have life[now] by it.

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