Can people in Heaven know?
- Thread starter Lifelong_sinner
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
it’d be great if only we could. wait…. Dont tell me, you dont sin anymore, right??
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
How many times have people quoted to you ....
KJV Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
.... And you ignored it, or pretended it means something it doesn't? That's why I didn't bother to quote it earlier. Been there, done that, and have every time met nothing but the sounds of silence. Would be delighted if someone actually read that, and believed it.
Yes, I do. I don't see any words to indicate otherwise. I don't believe Jesus would use an untruth to teach a truth. This wasn't a parable where He didn't use personal names. In this account, Jesus used names...one being Abraham. Why would He say that Abraham said something he didn't say? Jesus didn't lie.
1 Corinthians 15:44
[44]It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Hey Brother : )
Is this the SDA position, or is this more your own take on it?
Either way, I don't think that you are correct in saying the above is the driving point in what He was teaching them. This parable was taught by Jesus together with the Parable of the Unjust Steward, because both end up showing how the "righteous" rich (i.e. the Pharisees) were actually sinning against God and man through their covetousness (a point they readily perceive in v.14), and that the disciples should instead be generous to the poor as opposed to the Pharisees, who were abusing them and looking down upon them as unworthy of mercy.
In this context, why would Jesus be using a presumably false Jewish tradition to teach the disciples not to be covetous? It essentially turns the teaching on Lazarus into a validation of covetousness if the story is merely a fallacy.
1 He also said to His disciples: “There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and an accusation was brought to him that this man was wasting his goods. 2 So he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward.’
3 “Then the steward said within himself, ‘What shall I do? For my master is taking the stewardship away from me. I cannot dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4 I have resolved what to do, that when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.’
5 “So he called every one of his master’s debtors to him, and said to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ 6 And he said, ‘A hundred measures of oil.’ So he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and sit down quickly and write fifty.’ 7 Then he said to another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ So he said, ‘A hundred measures of wheat.’ And he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and write eighty.’ 8 So the master commended the unjust steward because he had dealt shrewdly. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in their generation than the sons of light.
9 “And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home. 10 He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. 11 Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own?
13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”
14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
So Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom? People can see their lives ones suffering in hell?
People in hell can talk to Abraham?
Jesus told this story as a sharp rebuke to the Jewish religious leaders. In the parable, the rich man represents the Jewish nation, and the poor man represents the Gentiles.
The rich man had the knowledge of the King of kings (purple is the colour of royalty), and the means to attaining righteousness (white linen). But as the parable unfolds, Jesus turns the viewpoint of the Jewish leaders on its head by placing the rich man in "hell" and the poor man in "Abraham's bosom."
Jesus was saying that personal status does not guarantee salvation. He was telling the Jews that they could only find salvation in God’s grace, not their own works or lineage. The Jews claimed Abraham as their father (John 8:39), but in the parable "Father Abraham" was unable to help the rich man.
The New Testament states that those who are in Christ are Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29), and that Christ came to restore the wounded and brokenhearted. Only those who realize their own spiritual poverty and need for Christ can attain His blessings.
Through this story, Jesus was also revealing to the disciples their new task: to break tradition and preach the Gospel with power to the Jews and the Gentiles alike.
As each scene unfolds in the parable, it conveys a spiritual truth contrary to the mindset of the Jewish leaders. The modern trend of taking this parable literally in order to support the doctrine of hell does great injustice to the intent of the story, and causes us to miss the deeper message it holds.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Relevant scripture.....
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
[6]Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7](For we walk by faith, not by sight
[8]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
[6]Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7](For we walk by faith, not by sight
[8]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
This account took place before Jesus' death and resurrection. Paradise was in the midst of the earth at that time. When He resurrected, that changed.
Luke 23:42-43
[42]And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43]And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
1 Peter 3:19-20
[19]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[20]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Ephesians 4:8-9
[8]Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9](Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Psalm 68:18
[18]Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
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Based on the other accounts in scripture, I take all these to fit together, not separate truths. It makes sense that there is a spiritual body, especially reading Jesus' account of Lazarus, the rich man, and Abraham. I don't see Jesus using an untruth to teach truth. If that's the case that Jesus lied, why would it be wrong for any of us to lie and make up stories?
Whichever sin you picked, thats the sin we did. Point is, we sin every single day. WE as in everyone on this planet.
I don’t recall anyone quoting that verse to me.....
I have quoted it several times.
Difference between you and me....is I KNOW what it MEANS and you don’t.
I have heard no one say they don’t believe that verse, including myself.
So why are you carrying on about something you claim but have not proved?
Prove I was quoted that and ignored it.
Prove I was pretending anything.
Prove you would be delighted IF someone read that verse.
Prove you know who believes it.
Blah, blah, blah....on your deflective irrelevant nonsense.
GET BACK ON TOPIC...
LUKE 16:19-31
DO YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT?
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I didn’t pick a sin, I picked a commandment!
Speak for yourself. YOU SIN EVERYDAY.....but then you could not IDENTIFY ONE SIN that you committed yesterday.....WHY NOT?
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