For those who think Christ is not God.

TLHKAJ said:

What? Are you saying there is another Savior??

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Ephesians 2:15

when he nullified in his flesh the law of commandments in decrees. He did this to create in himself one new man out of two, thus making peace,

Waiting on him said:

The thing that still bothers me to this day, and He has yet to answer. Is why no one recognized him upon resurrection?

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Christ was in transition form/mode. He had changed since before his death and during his death period to where he became multidimensional when he became resurrected. He was caught in between this world and the next, of the spirit realm until he ascended to heaven. He glowed and yet had all his human features on earth. He could walk through walls and yet eat as any human being. He was in a form like at the transfiguration event. Once ascended he became completely in the spirit realm and invisible to us.

This is my take on why no one initially recognized him.

APAK said:

Christ was in transition form/mode. He had changed since before his death and during his death period to where he became multidimensional when he became resurrected. He was caught in between this world and the next, of the spirit realm until he ascended to heaven. He glowed and yet had all his human features on earth. He could walk through walls and yet eat as any human being. He was in a form like at the transfiguration event. Once ascended he became completely in the spirit realm and invisible to us.

This is my take on why no one initially recognized him.

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The transition was from fully corruptible nature to completely incorruptible nature. 1 Corinthians 15:53-55

Many yet to understand the sting of death....

face2face said:

The transition was from fully corruptible nature to completely incorruptible nature. 1 Corinthians 15:53-55

Many yet to understand the sting of death....

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Yes this is a necessary point to compliment my post. Thanks indeed, it focuses on the intent or real effect of his death, resurrection and ascension

APAK said:

Yes this is a necessary point to compliment my post. Thanks indeed, it focuses on the intent or real effect of his death, resurrection and ascension

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Interesting perspectives, probably will be viewed as going off topic, maybe a good future thread, pertaining to his countenance upon resurrection?

face2face said:

The transition was from fully corruptible nature to completely incorruptible nature. 1 Corinthians 15:53-55

Many yet to understand the sting of death....

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Just an off the wall question and you don’t have to answer, but you’ve been active on this forum since 2015 and only have around 800 posts. What’s that all about, I only ask because it seems you have much to contribute?

Waiting on him said:

Just an off the wall question and you don’t have to answer, but you’ve been active on this forum since 2015 and only have around 800 posts. What’s that all about, I only ask because it seems you have much to contribute?

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I've been active in the forum since 2011 and posted on and off over that time. I guess it has to do with the subject matter and the level of engagement from fellow members. As you would know the site experiences peaks and troughs, people come and go so at present we have some interesting people to talk with. However, I might go into the wilderness for a while to recharge.
God bless.

TLHKAJ said:

He who knew no sin became sin. That is what is represented by the serpent. Our sins were laid on Him.

2 Corinthians 5:21
[21]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:7-12
[7]He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8]He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
[9]And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
[10]Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
[11]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[12]Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

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@TLHKAJ Isaiah 53 is indeed a wondrous, memorable passage....

marks said:

We are redeemed through the offering of Jesus Christ's body.

Hebrews 10:5-12 KJV
5) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6) In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7) Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11) And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Much love!

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So you are saying He didn't really die?

An angel could not give his life as a ransom for humanity. They are created beings, their lives are not their own to give... They belong to God. Only a divine Being has power over His own life.
KJV John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Brakelite said:

An angel could not give his life as a ransom for humanity. They are created beings, their lives are not their own to give... They belong to God. Only a divine Being has power over His own life.
KJV John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

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Is that really true?

"I lay my life down" - to mean, he is a willing sacrifice for God and us
"I have the power to take it again" - to mean through obedience his life will be restored

It was God who gave him the commandment to lay it down, not Jesus Christ himself. Jesus could do nothing and was powerless without God. One doesn't need to be a divine being to have control of ones life. Judas proves that.

face2face said:

Is that really true?

"I lay my life down" - to mean, he is a willing sacrifice for God and us
"I have the power to take it again" - to mean through obedience his life will be restored

It was God who gave him the commandment to lay it down, not Jesus Christ himself. Jesus could do nothing and was powerless without God. One doesn't need to be a divine being to have control of ones life. Judas proves that.

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How can a natural begotten son of God not be a divine Being? Is not your son human? Does not like beget like?

Brakelite said:

How can a natural begotten son of God not be a divine Being? Is not your son human? Does not like beget like?

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I'll go further. The fact of His own declared Sonship is the greatest evidence for His divinity.

Brakelite said:

How can a natural begotten son of God not be a divine Being? Is not your son human? Does not like beget like?

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First born of a woman Galatians 4:4-5 (first the natural)
Secondly born of the Spirit John 3:6-7 (then the spiritual)

All flesh is born flesh, but not all will be born of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:43)

1 Corinthians 15:46

The equation in crude terms is this:

Christianity states Jesus is 50% divine 50% hybrid flesh (of some sort or another)
Bible truth, Jesus is 100% fully flesh (like his brothers) then 100% fully Spirit (like God)

In character always like his father - in nature, always like his brothers & sisters, until the resurrection, then in Character and nature like his Father.

hope that makes it clear.

face2face said:

First born of a woman Galatians 4:4-5 (first the natural)
Secondly born of the Spirit John 3:6-7 (then the spiritual)

All flesh is born flesh, but not all will be born of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:43)

1 Corinthians 15:46

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Just as Christ, because He was born (brought forth) of Mary, is truly the Son of man, so too, because He is begotten (brought forth) of God, He is truly the Son of God. Exactly when this took place cannot be determined. What we do know is that the prophet Micah said that the coming Messiah would be “from everlasting” (Micah 5:2 KJV). This expression is based upon the Hebrew word ʿôlām, which is said to depict time out of mind - a point (past or future) that cannot be fixed (determined). The word ʿôlām has been likened to standing upon the seashore, looking towards the horizon, and realising there is more beyond without actually seeing it (it is hidden from view). We know too that if we travel towards the horizon, we will never reach it; neither will we ever see beyond it. There will always be more beyond. This aptly depicts when Christ was begotten. It is so far back in eternity that it cannot even be imagined, let alone be determined. This is why various versions of the Bible translate Micah 5:2 as saying of the Messiah
“… whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." NIV “
… from old, from the days of eternity.” Greens Literal Translation "
… from long ago, From the days of eternity." NAS “… “… “… “…
from the beginning, from the days of eternity .” Douay-Rheims whose origin is from of old, from ancient days whose origins go back to the distant past .” .” NJB RSV whose roots are far back in the past, in days gone by” (NEB) “…
his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity (YLT)
No matter how far we “go back” , it cannot be determined when Christ was begotten. It is essentially all eternity. All that we know for sure is that He is begotten – and that because of this, He is truly God’s Son. This is where we must leave it. The rest is known to God alone.

Brakelite said:

Just as Christ, because He was born (brought forth) of Mary, is truly the Son of man, so too, because He is begotten (brought forth) of God, He is truly the Son of God. Exactly when this took place cannot be determined. What we do know is that the prophet Micah said that the coming Messiah would be “from everlasting” (Micah 5:2 KJV). This expression is based upon the Hebrew word ʿôlām, which is said to depict time out of mind - a point (past or future) that cannot be fixed (determined). The word ʿôlām has been likened to standing upon the seashore, looking towards the horizon, and realising there is more beyond without actually seeing it (it is hidden from view). We know too that if we travel towards the horizon, we will never reach it; neither will we ever see beyond it. There will always be more beyond. This aptly depicts when Christ was begotten. It is so far back in eternity that it cannot even be imagined, let alone be determined. This is why various versions of the Bible translate Micah 5:2 as saying of the Messiah
“… whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." NIV “
… from old, from the days of eternity.” Greens Literal Translation "
… from long ago, From the days of eternity." NAS “… “… “… “…
from the beginning, from the days of eternity .” Douay-Rheims whose origin is from of old, from ancient days whose origins go back to the distant past .” .” NJB RSV whose roots are far back in the past, in days gone by” (NEB) “…
his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity (YLT)
No matter how far we “go back” , it cannot be determined when Christ was begotten. It is essentially all eternity. All that we know for sure is that He is begotten – and that because of this, He is truly God’s Son. This is where we must leave it. The rest is known to God alone.

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Brakelite, you have gone down the wrong rabbit hole on this one mate and got lost in the dark!

In riddle-like fashion this verse alludes to David as the references to Bethlehem and to his ancient origins/activities indicate. The passage anticipates the second coming of the great king to usher in a new era of national glory for Israel. Other prophets are more direct and name this coming ideal ruler “David” Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24; Ezekiel 37:24-25 & Hosea 3:5. But we have the Second David in view don't we?

Hence why the Apostle Paul introduces Christ as per Romans 1:3 "born of the seed of David, after the flesh" (how clear do you want it?)

Reading the text in context really helps understand what is being communicated.

"from you a king will emerge who will rule over Israel on my behalf"

If you review the NET translation you will see the reference to "distant past" is the Heb “from the past, from the days of antiquity.” to mean this second King will have his origin's in David.

APAK said:

This mindset of fear and guilt from the unbelieving since the Garden is well explained here. I need to digest it further and add it to my personal writings...thank you for your input...and bless you from the true God for revealing it to me.

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Fear of hell is legitimate. People ought be afraid of hell. We can't be too afraid of hell.

But Scripture says the fearful are the unbelieving: them that do not repent and hate the true Light of righteous judgment. They are not those afraid of hell, so much as those those afraid to come to the Light, lest their evil works be reproved: they are more afraid of being exposed for what they really are to the heart and the soul, than they are afraid of hell.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The fear of the Lord is wisdom: wisdom is good to produce righteousness.

The first time I knew the fear of the Lord was when I understood the Scripture to put away all lust and unrighteous thoughts from my heart and mind, not just change my outward living. That was the first time I had doubts about my ability to do something I believed was the will of God.

I knew blamelessly how to repent of deeds and words, but of thoughts?? But, nonetheless, God gave me the commandment and the faith to do it, and so I began to honestly do so, to purge my heart and mind of all vain imagination and thought for sin, and the fear of the Lord came upon me, that I was afraid I would fail Him.

Failure in something important to me is unacceptable to me, and in this case was everything to me. I feared I would fail God. I would not be a son He looks for to love and to honor as worthy of His name.

And so, what happens? I didn't quit, which is also unthinkable, and low and behold, I found I had power to do it. I actually silenced all unwanted thought from my heart and mind, and now I only keep them out when the devil throws some fiery darts my way: DOA.

The battle of all men and women is unwanted thoughts. Not being in self-denial, but in being tormented by thoughts that defile and destroy: this is not the power of positive thinking, but the power God gives to all them that receive Him to become His sons in deed and in truth:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Now, I know the blessedness of a mind stayed on Him in peace and clarity of mind. It's not by force of will, nor by trying to 'think about God', but simply having a mind cleared and purified of garbage of the world: I don't anymore have to take thought from the devil for sin or even stupid.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

This Scripture is Jesus telling His people that in Him, we have power to only have and take thought for that which is good and true and right and wise to do: our minds are not to be the trashbin of the world.

This Scripture is Jesus telling His people how to live now and today, and not to worry about the issues of tomorrow. Today is the day of our salvation and watching for His coming. I actually spend time now with a clear mind looking up thinking perhaps today. I now am never so engrossed in my mind with anything, especially not unrighteousness, that I am unaware of the Lord in my heart and mind.

When the devil's thoughts are cast out and kept outside the door, then the small still voice and thoughts of the Lord are clear to hear an do.

When we begin to obey God in His commandment to us personally from Scripture, with fear of the Lord not to fail Him, then the power of God is with us to do it. It is not a spiritual experience, so much as a powerful accomplishment, which does result in spiritual blessing.

By the fear of the Lord I have His wisdom to do His word as written: to take Him at His word, and not just see it as some idealistic unattainable goal.

When He says he will not allow us to be tempted above that which we are able, he is not only speaking of sin, but of commandment to do something for Him personally in our heart and life, that he may draw nigh to us, by us drawing nigh to Him, but resisting the devil and his thoughts unto purity and clarity of heart and mind and soul.

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Be still, and know that I am God: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul.

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

face2face said:

Brakelite, you have gone down the wrong rabbit hole on this one mate and got lost in the dark!

In riddle-like fashion this verse alludes to David as the references to Bethlehem and to his ancient origins/activities indicate. The passage anticipates the second coming of the great king to usher in a new era of national glory for Israel. Other prophets are more direct and name this coming ideal ruler “David” Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24; Ezekiel 37:24-25 & Hosea 3:5. But we have the Second David in view don't we?

Hence why the Apostle Paul introduces Christ as per Romans 1:3 "born of the seed of David, after the flesh" (how clear do you want it?)

Reading the text in context really helps understand what is being communicated.

"from you a king will emerge who will rule over Israel on my behalf"

If you review the NET translation you will see the reference to "distant past" is the Heb “from the past, from the days of antiquity.” to mean this second King will have his origin's in David.

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Are you of that group of anti trinitarians that are so determined to deny Christ His true place in the Godhead you also deny Him being Creator?

Brakelite said:

I'll go further. The fact of His own declared Sonship is the greatest evidence for His divinity.

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Peter declares his son ship and Jesus told him this knowledge was given from God.