How Many Resurrections Are There? (Rapture Topic)

us2are1 said:

From Here to the coming of Christ there are two resurrections from the dead written in scripture "the resurrection of the two witnesses" and "the resurrection of the apostles and saints at the return of Christ to set up His kingdom here on earth".
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I consider the time of the resurrection of God's "two witnesses" per Rev.11 as aligned closely with the timeframe of the last 3rd Woe which includes the sound of the 7th Trumpet. Per 1 Cor.15, on the "last trump" (trumpet) is when Apostle Paul taught the resurrection and change of saints still alive will occur.

Towards the end of Rev.11 right after the sound of the 7th Trumpet, we're shown all the kingdoms on earth having become the kingdoms of God and His Son, pointing to Christ's second coming with that 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period.

So that would not mean a completely separate 'resurrection' of God's "two witnesses", but of the same time of the resurrection at Christ's coming. Thus only one 'general' resurrection at Christ's coming, of BOTH, the just and... the unjust.

But at the end of the "thousand years", a second inferred resurrection just like the "first resurrection" (of Life) for those who come to Christ DURING His "thousand years" reign with His elect priests and kings.
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Put simply, we ALL are going to go through Christ's Millennium reign in resurrection type bodies, both the just (Christ's elect) and the unjust (wicked, the "dead" of Rev.20:5). But NOT ALL resurrected will have put on "immortality" through Christ Jesus unto eternal life. A portion of the 'general resurrection' at Christ's coming will STILL... be subject to the "second death" (later "lake of fire" event), and those represent the "unjust" of Acts 24:15 and the "dead" of Rev.20:5, and "resurrection of damnation" of John 5:28-29.

The reason for this is because when Christ returns, this present world will have been changed to a Heavenly age on earth, the Heavenly revealed here, on earth. Christ Jesus reveals this in the Rev.22:14-15 passage about those who have right to the "tree of life" and may pass through the "gates into the city" (Holy City - New Jerusalem on earth in that time). Ezekiel 40 through 48 goes into a lot more detail about that tree of life and God's River then flowing out of the Millennial sanctuary, especially in the Ezekiel 47 chapter.

Those deceived by Satan during this world will be taught of The LORD through His elect priests and kings during that "thousand years" (Ezekiel 44; end of Isaiah 29). It won't be Christ's elect of the "first resurrection" that will need teaching, for they reign with Christ in that time and will be the ones doing the teaching. God's Truth, full strength, will be taught to the deceived, which is why Satan and his will be locked in his pit prison during that "thousand years", and won't be released until it's time to test those taught at the end of the thousand years.

The is why... those "dead" (spiritually dead) who will be taught DURING the "thousand years", tested when Satan is loosed a last time to test them, and they will stand in judgment after that, and judged out of the Book of Life, and those of them not found in that Book will go into the "lake of fire". SOME of those "dead" through teaching during Christ's thousand years reign, and standing in Christ through Satan's final testing, WILL be found in that Book of Life and will become JOINED with those of the "first resurrection" (Christ's elect). Then will come the "new heavens and a new earth", and God will make His servants a joy.

BibleScribe said:

Hi Veteran,

All you have to do is explain how the following sequence can be reconciled:


1. The dead are resurrected, and then the church is raptured before/during/after the Tribulation. -- This is your first resurrection.

2. The martyred are resurrected after the Tribulation to rule with Christ for the thousand years. -- This is your second resurrection, but John's FIRST resurrection:


Rev. 20:4
[sup]4[/sup] I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. [sup]6[/sup] Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.





Please note that this passage does not suggest that ~they and the church~ will reign with him for a thousand years. And it would be foolish to add to the WORDS OF THIS BOOK to suggest so.


BibleScribe

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All that is YOUR words, not mine. This section of God's Word is obviously closed completely off to your understanding.

Shalom, veteran.

veteran said:

If the Rev.20:5 "dead" are not raised until the END of the "thousand years" at the great white throne judgment, then WHO are those of the "resurrection of damnation" that Christ declared will be raised along with the "resurrection of life" at His coming? Christ does NOT return at the END of the "thousand years", but at the BEGINNING of the "thousand years."

So if one wants to look silly, go ahead, try to make Scripture fit the raising of the John 5:28-29 "resurrection of damnation" at the END of the "thousand years".

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)


Obviously, those who want to stick with the tradition about the Rev.20:5 "dead" raised at the end of the "thousand years" don't want to address that John 5:28-29 Scripture as written. Are there others comparable to that one of John 5? Yes...


Dan 12:2
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
(KJV)

Notice that Dan.12:2 does not say the "resurrection of life" happens at one time, and the "resurrection of damnation" happens later at another time. They both... happen at the same time.


Matt 25:31-33
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
(KJV)

Nations?? How is it that nations will still exist in that Millennium time? Even Rev.20:7-9 reveals the existence of those nations TO THE END OF the Rev.20 "thousand years"! Why? Because the GWT judgment doesn't occur until AFTER the Rev.20:7-10 events! That has to mean those "nations" being in existence THROUGHOUT the "thousand years".


And Christ Jesus revealed just WHERE those nations of the "dead" will be DURING His thousand years reign...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)

What does "For without" mean? Per those two Rev.22:14-15 verses, it means OUTSIDE THE HOLY CITY. Well, who's INSIDE the Holy City during the "thousand years"??? Christ and His elect priests and kings, i.e., His servants of the "first resurrection".

So HOW can those "nations" outside the "camp of the saints" and gates of the "holy city" even be there, IF they are not raised at the start of the "thousand years"?


One more example...

Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
(KJV)

That part of Zechariah 14 is of the time AFTER Christ's return and the start of His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

Notice those "nations" there. Where did we read about 'nations' in the Rev.20 Scripture for during the "thousand years"? In the Rev.20:7-9 verses.

That part of the Zech.14 Scripture reveals something very amazing about that future time. Christ will have already returned, gathered His elect to Him, and His elect will be reigning with Him on earth at that time, as priests and kings (Rev.20). EVEN though Christ will have returned, every eye having seen Him like Rev.1 says, and STILL... there will be "nations" that will REFUSE to come up to Jerusalem to worship Him as "King, LORD of hosts", and keep the feast of tabernacles!!!

By the many existing Church traditions of what's it's gonna' be like after Christ's return and gathering of His saints, it's obvious this little tid-bit of information has been left out, that some "nations" in that future "thousand years" will STILL BE REBELLIOUS AGAINST CHRIST JESUS!

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You are making many assumptions: First, you are assuming in your interpretation of John 5:28-29 and Dan. 12:2 that all have to be resurrected AT THE SAME TIME! That's not necessarily so. Just because all will be resurrected does NOT mean that all have to be resurrected at the same time! In point of fact, all three, Peter, Paul and John tell us otherwise!

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water (first heaven and earth):
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water (the Flood), perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now (the second heaven and earth), by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men (the Fire).
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth (the third heaven and earth), wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

1 Cor. 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Rev. 20:1-15
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

The key in these passages is that there is a significant gap between the first resurrection before the Millennium (1 Cor. 15:23b; Rev. 20:4, 5b-6) and the second resurrection after the Millennium (1 Cor. 15:24ff; Rev. 20:5a, 11-15). This gap, characterized by the subjugation of Yeshua`s enemies until the last enemy, death itself, is finally defeated, is known as the Millennium (Latin for "1000 years"; "mille" = "1000," "annum" = "year," which equals the Greek phrase, "chilia etee," "chilia" = "1000", "etee" = "years").

The New Jerusalem (Hierusaleem kaineen; Yerushalayim haChadashah) does not descend to the NEW Earth until after it is MADE NEW after the Great White Throne Judgment of the last resurrection, the "second resurrection," according to John. Remember: chapter divisions did not come into existence until the 15th century!

Rev 20:11-21:4
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

Do you see the order? Even by Jewish thinking, the order must be...

1 The Millennium, when Yeshua` is subjugating all of his enemies
2 The Fire, when the skies (the atmosphere) and the earth (the ground, the soil) flee away
3 The Great White Throne when all the rest are resurrected and judged and sentenced
4 The destruction of Death, the subjugation of the Last Enemy
5 The re-creation of the New Earth and its New Sky
6 The descent of the New Jerusalem, the capital city of the New Earth

The New Jerusalem is not on the earth during the Millennium; it does not descend to the NEW Earth until AFTER the Millennium!

The other problem I see is that of dichotomous thinking. You, like so many others, both now and those who came before us, have generalized too much of these prophecies! We have been taught and consequentially think that these verses are "all or nothing," that they must affect the WHOLE EARTH and not just a portion of it! As you pointed out in Revelation 22:14-15, there will still be the "dogs, and sorcerers (drug dealers), and whoremongers (pimps), and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" outside the city! However, does that necessitate this being a reference to the Millennium? ONLY if one cannot come to grips with a different future than they have been taught!

Just as the destruction of the earth is not a complete destruction of the planet but "merely" a destruction of the biosphere of the planet, so too the evil can be contained and not totally removed from the earth! Theology can do a real number on our understanding of the Scriptures!

It's amazing the things
that one is liable
for the sake of beliefs
to read INTO the Bible!

We need to read the Bible for what we can get OUT of the Bible and not read our petty beliefs INTO the Bible!

veteran said:

I consider the time of the resurrection of God's "two witnesses" per Rev.11 as aligned closely with the timeframe of the last 3rd Woe which includes the sound of the 7th Trumpet. Per 1 Cor.15, on the "last trump" (trumpet) is when Apostle Paul taught the resurrection and change of saints still alive will occur.

Towards the end of Rev.11 right after the sound of the 7th Trumpet, we're shown all the kingdoms on earth having become the kingdoms of God and His Son, pointing to Christ's second coming with that 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period.

So that would not mean a completely separate 'resurrection' of God's "two witnesses", but of the same time of the resurrection at Christ's coming. Thus only one 'general' resurrection at Christ's coming, of BOTH, the just and... the unjust.

But at the end of the "thousand years", a second inferred resurrection just like the "first resurrection" (of Life) for those who come to Christ DURING His "thousand years" reign with His elect priests and kings.
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Put simply, we ALL are going to go through Christ's Millennium reign in resurrection type bodies, both the just (Christ's elect) and the unjust (wicked, the "dead" of Rev.20:5). But NOT ALL resurrected will have put on "immortality" through Christ Jesus unto eternal life. A portion of the 'general resurrection' at Christ's coming will STILL... be subject to the "second death" (later "lake of fire" event), and those represent the "unjust" of Acts 24:15 and the "dead" of Rev.20:5, and "resurrection of damnation" of John 5:28-29.

The reason for this is because when Christ returns, this present world will have been changed to a Heavenly age on earth, the Heavenly revealed here, on earth. Christ Jesus reveals this in the Rev.22:14-15 passage about those who have right to the "tree of life" and may pass through the "gates into the city" (Holy City - New Jerusalem on earth in that time). Ezekiel 40 through 48 goes into a lot more detail about that tree of life and God's River then flowing out of the Millennial sanctuary, especially in the Ezekiel 47 chapter.

Those deceived by Satan during this world will be taught of The LORD through His elect priests and kings during that "thousand years" (Ezekiel 44; end of Isaiah 29). It won't be Christ's elect of the "first resurrection" that will need teaching, for they reign with Christ in that time and will be the ones doing the teaching. God's Truth, full strength, will be taught to the deceived, which is why Satan and his will be locked in his pit prison during that "thousand years", and won't be released until it's time to test those taught at the end of the thousand years.

The is why... those "dead" (spiritually dead) who will be taught DURING the "thousand years", tested when Satan is loosed a last time to test them, and they will stand in judgment after that, and judged out of the Book of Life, and those of them not found in that Book will go into the "lake of fire". SOME of those "dead" through teaching during Christ's thousand years reign, and standing in Christ through Satan's final testing, WILL be found in that Book of Life and will become JOINED with those of the "first resurrection" (Christ's elect). Then will come the "new heavens and a new earth", and God will make His servants a joy.

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The Lord will return and resurrect His Apostles and saints 75 days after the two witnesses are resurrected. This is after almost two thirds of the population of the earth has perished.







.

John is the only writer of Scripture to use the term “first resurrection.”
It is found in Rev. 20:4-6.

4 . . . And they came to life and reigned with Christ for
a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the
thousand years were completed. This is the first
resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first
resurrection; over these the second death has no power,
but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will
reign with Him for a thousand years.

The fact that there is a “first” resurrection mandates that there be a
second to follow at a later time. John makes the point that the first
resurrection occurs a thousand years prior to the general resurrection,
which he talks about later in the chapter.

In verse 5 he tells us specifically that “the rest of the dead” would
remain dead for a thousand years after the first resurrection. He does
not define “the rest of the dead,” but he does make it clear that those
who are raised in this first resurrection are believers in Christ. He calls
them “blessed and holy,” and he calls them “priests of God and of
Christ,” called to reign during the thousand years.

In Rev. 20 John continues his thought, telling us of a second resurrection
that includes ALL the dead who were not raised in the first resurrection.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who sat
upon it ...
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small,
standing before the throne, and books were opened;
and another book was opened, which is the book of
life; and the dead were judged from the things which
were written in the books, according to their deeds…
13 And if anyone's name was NOT found written in
the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This is clearly a picture of the great judgment, at which time all sinners
will be judged who were not raised in the first resurrection.

Both Jesus and Paul talked about the general, or second resurrection
of the dead. There are two very clear statements about this. The first
records the words of Jesus in John 5:28, 29.

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming in
which ALL who are in the tombs shall hear His voice,
29 and shall come forth; those who did the good
deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed
the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Here is a resurrection in which both the good and the evildoers shall
be raised to life. Both are said to be raised at the same time, for He
says, “an hour is coming.” While the word “hour” does not necessarily
refer to a sixty-minute period of time, it does indicate that both the
good and the evildoers are raised in the same resurrection.

And so it is clear that there will be Christians raised in BOTH the first
and the second resurrections. Those raised in the first will reign with
Christ for a thousand years; the others will miss this, yet will receive
life (immortality) at that later time.

Once we understand the distinction between these two resurrections,
we have the means to determine which resurrection is being discussed
in other passages of Scripture. These passages also add details to our
core of knowledge regarding these resurrections. One such passage is
found in Luke 12:35-50, where Jesus speaks of the “faithful and wise
steward” who will be made “ruler over His household.”

If this wise steward is to be made “ruler,” then we know he is of the
first resurrection, for these rule and reign with Christ a thousand years,
as we have seen. The wise steward is one who has learned to be a good
servant, one who abides by the laws of the household and does the will
of his Master.

Having learned to be obedient, he is now qualified to rule. He has
learned that ruling does not mean having servants, but being a servant
and having the authority to serve others. This is made plain in
Mark 10:42-45,

42 And calling them to Himself, Jesus said to them,
You know that those who are recognized as rulers
of the Gentiles [ethnos, “nations”] lord it over them;
and their great men exercise authority over them.
43 But it is not so among you, but whoever wishes
to become great among you shall be your servant;
44 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall
be slave of all.
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be
served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom
for many.

This describes the faithful and wise servant who will be made ruler
over God's household.


Logabe

Retrobyter said:

Shalom, veteran.



You are making many assumptions: First, you are assuming in your interpretation of John 5:28-29 and Dan. 12:2 that all have to be resurrected AT THE SAME TIME! That's not necessarily so. Just because all will be resurrected does NOT mean that all have to be resurrected at the same time! In point of fact, all three, Peter, Paul and John tell us otherwise!

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I fail to see evidence for 'assumptions' you claim I've made, especially in light that you have failed to address the resurrection in regard to the John 5:28-29, Zechariah 14, Ezekiel 40-47, and Rev.3:9 Scriptures, and even Matt.25 with the gathering of all nations after Christ's return and separation between sheep and goats, a la Rev.22:14-15.

Also, the Rev.22:14-15 verses are specific to Christ's Millennium reign because of the separation of His sheep from the goats outside the gates of the holy city, and only His servants having right to the tree of life. The Ezekiel 47 chapter specifically describes the River of the waters of Life flowing OUT from Christ's Millennium sanctuary, ALONG WITH the tree of life on either side of that River.

Anyone can say... another makes assumptions, or reads their petty thoughts into Scripture, but so far, you leave out too much relevant Scripture in your interpretation to be claiming I've been making un-Biblical assumptions.

If your intent was truly honest, you would have addressed what I covered differently. But instead you've wrongly assumed me the fool and yourself that is wise.

I shall now address what Scripture you have posted, and reveal how they relate to what I've been covering. And I will refer to other relevant Scripture about this matter once again, that you failed to even try to address.

Retrobyter said:

Shalom, veteran.


You are making many assumptions: First, you are assuming in your interpretation of John 5:28-29 and Dan. 12:2 that all have to be resurrected AT THE SAME TIME! That's not necessarily so. Just because all will be resurrected does NOT mean that all have to be resurrected at the same time! In point of fact, all three, Peter, Paul and John tell us otherwise!

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water (first heaven and earth):
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water (the Flood), perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now (the second heaven and earth), by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men (the Fire).

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Peter is covering the subject of how God had destroyed man's order off this earth in prior ages, and how this present world (not earth, but man's order upon the earth) is preserved unto a destruction by fire. The "day of the Lord" events to occur with Christ's second coming speaks of this consuming fire event that will burn man's present order off this earth, just as God destroyed man's order upon the earth by water during Noah's days. God's Great White Throne Judgment, and those that perish in the "lake of fire", do not occur until a "thousand years" later per Rev.20. So IF we want a better detail of those final events, we must go to Rev.20 which Peter agrees with.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

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9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

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This "elements" does NOT... mean earthly atomic elements of matter per the Greek. It instead means an orderly arrangement, a world time, and it's about the destruction of man's present order off this earth when Christ comes to START His "thousand years" reign with His elect priests and kings. These elements being burned up are specifically linked with the "day of the Lord" events given in the OT prophets, which is where Peter is pulling from. Per 1 Thess.5 and here in 2 Pet.3:10, that event will occur with Christ's second coming "as a thief", and NOT at the end of Christ's thousand years reign.

Our God is... a consuming fire, and He rains fire upon this earth more than once to bring destruction. At the end of Christ's thousand years per Rev.20, He rains fire down upon the nations that will surround Christ's "camp of the saints" at the END of Christ's thousand years reign! So... there's another time God will use fire upon the earth to destroy. And then one final destruction after that is the wicked, death, and hell cast into the "lake of fire".

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

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13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth (the third heaven and earth), wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

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This new heavens and a new earth is set to occur AFTER Christ's future "thousand years" reign. The wicked will never see it, for it does not come until after the lake of fire event of Rev.20. The holy city which John sees in Rev.21 is linked to the same holy city which Ezekiel was given to see, that of Jerusalem. The one in Ezekiel 40-48 is upon the earth, established with... the Millennium sanctuary, with a specific layout measurement. In Ezekiel 47, Ezekiel is shown a River of waters flowing out from that Millennium sanctuary to the east, and on either side of that River is the tree of life as many trees. Specific locations in the holy lands are given with that description of that River and God's House there.

In Ezekiel 44, two priest groups are mentioned, the Zadok (Just), and the Levites that went astray. Only the Zadok will serve Christ at His table and come near Him. Those also will be allowed to go into the outer courts for sake of the "dead", a family member.

Ezek 44:23-25
23 And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and my statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths.
25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.
(KJV)

According to what you appear to believe, those "dead" there are still in some hole in the ground, not resurrected. They are not dead in the ground. They are alive in the resurrection body sense, but 'dead' in the spiritually "resurrection of damnation" sense.

Are there others in that spiritually "dead" state in that time? Yes...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
(KJV)

That's Christ's Message to those at the Church of Philadelphia who were persecuted by false Jews who claimed to be Jews, but were actually the "synagogue of Satan". Just WHEN will those false ones be made to come worship at the feet of His elect like He said??? DURING Christ's "thousand years" reign! That's what that Ezekiel 44 is about with the Zadok (Just) as teachers during Christ's thousand years.

Now it's pretty obvious those of the "synagogue of Satan" directly represent Christ's enemies, and not of the "first resurrection" at all. So HOW will they be able to come worship Christ Jesus at the feet of His elect durirng that Millennium time? No way they could do that if they were still literally "dead" in the ground! Obviously they won't be dead in the ground, for they WILL bow the knee to Christ right in front of His elect priests and kings during the "thousand years"; not after the thousand years, but DURING that period. And... they will be taught the difference between the holy and profane, and made to discern between clean and unclean.

Your next reference of 1 Cor.15 even goes into a little of those events of the wicked bowing the knee to Christ during His Millennium reign... ruling over His enemies...

1 Cor. 15:20-28

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20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

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By man (Adam) came flesh death, and by Man (Christ) also came the resurrection of the dead. As ALL born flesh in Adam's sin die in the flesh, SO LIKEWISE ALL... will be made alive by Christ Jesus. Just Christ's saints only will be made alive?? Nope, the Scripture doesn't say that. It says... ALL. That includes the wicked too, His enemies. So what kind of "made alive" does Paul mean with that, since it must include the wicked too???...

Resurrection. "No way", you and others might say? Yes, way, and those "dead" are called by Christ "the resurrection of damnation" per the John 5:28-29 Scripture. The John 5:28-29 Scripture by Christ does NOT say only the just are resurrected in that HOUR of the sound of Christ's Voice. That "hour" time marker is given to show a resurrection of BOTH the Just and... the unjust will occur at Christ's second coming!

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

Are some people so blinded to God's Truth that they cannot even READ those simple John 5:28-29 verses? It would appear so. But I'm not going to leave out the possibility that SOME don't WANT to read and heed that Scripture by our Lord Jesus, that they might have other... aims, like following the doctrines of men instead. It is impossible... to assign that "hour" to the "dead" of Rev.20:5 at the END of Christ's thousand years reign, simply because of Christ mentioning "the resurrection of life" (first resurrection of Rev.20) along with that one of damnation.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

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24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

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What's unique about those two 23-24 verses together? Kind of left out some details that our Lord Jesus gives us in the Rev.20 Scripture. It talks about the time of Christ's second coming, and jumps right to the END of Christ's "thousand years" reign. It doesn't even mention... the idea of the Rev.20:5 "dead", except... in what sense? Except in that last statement I underlined of, "when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." What's that about? It's about the events of the wicked bowing to Christ DURING His "thousand years" reign I just covered, the spiritually "dead" relatives of Christ's Zadok saints at the Millennium sanctuary, etc. Is it about this also...


Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)

Yes; that's about Christ's Millennium reign time also; how do we know? Because if all the Rev.21-22 descriptions were strictly chronological, those wicked outside the gates of the holy city should have already been gone in the "lake of fire" back at the end of Rev.20!!! Some just simply are not... using their mind in missing that point.

Did Christ teach about that kind of separation thing going on in His future Kingdom after His return? Yeah! Remember the one who sneaked into the wedding that didn't have on a wedding garment? (Matt.22). What was that one's fate? The king told his servants to cast that one to the "outter darkness", where there shall be "wailing and snashing of teeth"! THERE IT IS, right there in Rev.22:15 pointed to by our Lord Jesus, the "OUTTER DARKNESS", a place of separation OUTSIDE the gates of the Holy City during what time again? After... the Rev.20 events? No, but DURING the Rev.20 "thousand years" events. It's just not mentioned by our Lord Jesus until the Rev.22 chapter, that's all. No doubt He thought His servants would be wise enough to pick up on that, if they had listened to Him about that "outer darkness" idea He mentioned at His first... coming.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

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26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

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Christ MUST REIGN "till"... what time? That's about His Millennium reign of Rev.20. How's He gonna' reign putting all His enemies under His feet unless they are present during that reign? I've already given enough to show the unjust-wicked-dead are going to be raised JUST FOR THAT time of His reign over them! And boy are the worst of of His enemies going to BOW THE KNEE to Him, right in front of His elect saints at that! That will go on until that last enemy (Satan) is destroyed in the "lake of fire", along with those who perish with him, and the idea of death, and the abode of hell, to occur at the end of the thousand years.

But did you know not everyone is going to come to Jerusalem to worship The KING Jesus Christ in that time? Yeah, there's still going to be some rebellion against Christ going on during that future "thousand years"; kind of unbelievable, but here it is...


Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
(KJV)

What nations are those that are to come upon Jerusalem on the last day of this present world prior to Christ's return? They're listed in the Ezek.38-39 chapters, Scripture that occurs immediately prior to the Millennium events of Ezek.40-48 chapters. Let's see, would those nations that do that be Christ's friends, or His enemies, and Israel's enemies? Israel's enemies for sure! Would they be of the "resurrection of life", or the "resurrection of damnation", those nations that do that? Definitely not of Christ's servants. If they don't belong to Christ as His saints at His coming, are instead of the Rev.20:5 "dead", then during that Millennium time there, HOW ARE THOSE LEFT OF THOSE NATIONS going to be even ABLE to come up to Jerusalem to worship The KING (Christ) during that Millennium time? Obviously, those left of those nations that come upon Jerusalem prior to Christ's return won't be dead in the ground somewhere during His Millennium reign, waiting to be resurrected at the END of Christ's thousand years reign!

There they are, the Rev.20:5 "dead", because those certainly are not of Christ's resurrection saints that will reign with Him as kings and priests!

Or maybe, those confused about the Rev.20:5 "dead" think those are kinda like zombies walking around upon the earth during Christ's Millennium, refusing to come up to Jerusalem to worship Christ The King and keep that future feast of tabernacles? Like walking dead? No, just joking.

They are SPIRITUAL dead; their SOULS are still dead. That's the real idea when all of this is put together. They aren't zombies, nor still in flesh bodies, not dead in a hole in the ground waiting to the end of the thousand years to be resurrected. It's the KIND of resurrection state they are in that is DEAD.

The devil and his angels sentenced to perish have never... been born through flesh woman. So they don't have flesh bodies in the Heavenly dimension. Their destruction is the "second death", so what kind of body is subject to the "second death" of being cast into the "lake of fire"? Death of one's soul and spirit, not one's flesh body. The FIRST death is about death of one's flesh. When Christ returns, the idea of the FIRST death will be over, no more. This is why anyone not of the "first resurrection" at Christ's coming will be subject to the "second death", not the first death.

logabe said:

Both Jesus and Paul talked about the general, or second resurrection
of the dead. There are two very clear statements about this. The first
records the words of Jesus in John 5:28, 29.

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming in
which ALL who are in the tombs shall hear His voice,
29 and shall come forth; those who did the good
deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed
the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Here is a resurrection in which both the good and the evildoers shall
be raised to life. Both are said to be raised at the same time, for He
says, “an hour is coming.” While the word “hour” does not necessarily
refer to a sixty-minute period of time, it does indicate that both the
good and the evildoers are raised in the same resurrection.

And so it is clear that there will be Christians raised in BOTH the first
and the second resurrections. Those raised in the first will reign with
Christ for a thousand years; the others will miss this, yet will receive
life (immortality) at that later time.

Once we understand the distinction between these two resurrections,
we have the means to determine which resurrection is being discussed
in other passages of Scripture. These passages also add details to our
core of knowledge regarding these resurrections. One such passage is
found in Luke 12:35-50, where Jesus speaks of the “faithful and wise
steward” who will be made “ruler over His household.”

If this wise steward is to be made “ruler,” then we know he is of the
first resurrection, for these rule and reign with Christ a thousand years,
as we have seen. The wise steward is one who has learned to be a good
servant, one who abides by the laws of the household and does the will
of his Master.

Having learned to be obedient, he is now qualified to rule. He has
learned that ruling does not mean having servants, but being a servant
and having the authority to serve others. This is made plain in
Mark 10:42-45,

42 And calling them to Himself, Jesus said to them,
You know that those who are recognized as rulers
of the Gentiles [ethnos, “nations”] lord it over them;
and their great men exercise authority over them.
43 But it is not so among you, but whoever wishes
to become great among you shall be your servant;
44 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall
be slave of all.
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be
served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom
for many.

This describes the faithful and wise servant who will be made ruler
over God's household.


Logabe

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I agree with that, except... that those saved of the 2nd resurrection at the end will not be Christian brethren that fell away only, but peoples from all nations that come to believe on Christ Jesus during His Millennium reign with His elect.

The Rev.20:15 suggests at God's Great White Throne Judgment, ONLY those whose names NOT found written in the Book of Life will perish. That is leaving room for those who come to Christ Jesus during His thousand years reign.

The following Ezekiel 44:24 verse gives us another point to just what TYPE of resurrection the "resurrection of damnation" is...

Ezek 44:23-25
23 And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and my statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths.
(KJV)

In controversy they (the Rev.20:5 "dead") shall stand in judgment.

So the "resurrection of damnation" idea is not pointing to just the time of the end of "thousand years", but a decision (judgment) upon the Rev.20:5 "dead" lasting throughout Christ's "thousand years."

veteran said:

I agree with that, except... that those saved of the 2nd resurrection at the end will not be Christian brethren that fell away only, but peoples from all nations that come to believe on Christ Jesus during His Millennium reign with His elect.

The Rev.20:15 suggests at God's Great White Throne Judgment, ONLY those whose names NOT found written in the Book of Life will perish. That is leaving room for those who come to Christ Jesus during His thousand years reign.

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Absolutely... the ones in the Millennium that come to believe in the death, burial, and
resurrection of Jesus Christ will also receive immortality @ that time.

What I don't agree with is... the ones whose names are written in the Book of Life will
perish. I believe they will be cast into the "second death" or "Lake of Fire", which ever
one you would like to call it.

What's the difference? Just as we live in this world and we die, John called what we are
living now is the FIRST DEATH. Adam, if you eat of the fruit, you shall surely die. Not only
did Adam die but we also have that FIRST DEATH inside of us. It is called mortality. We
live and die in the first death. We are paying for Adam's sin which is the First Death.

The SECOND DEATH is simular to the FIRST DEATH, a person will live and die in that
world also. The only difference is he will live longer depending on his sentence pass down
@ the Great Day of the Judgment. In the end, God will destroy all DEATH by giving all LIFE.
1st Corinthians 15:26 says,

26 The last enemy that shall be DESTROYED is DEATH.

How do you destroy death?

By giving LIFE! In the end, God will destroy the first death and the second death and bring
LIFE to the multitudes. Now don't get mad @ me because God said it not me. I just believe
It.

Logabe

logabe said:

Absolutely... the ones in the Millennium that come to believe in the death, burial, and
resurrection of Jesus Christ will also receive immortality @ that time.

What I don't agree with is... the ones whose names are written in the Book of Life will
perish. I believe they will be cast into the "second death" or "Lake of Fire", which ever
one you would like to call it.

What's the difference? Just as we live in this world and we die, John called what we are
living now is the FIRST DEATH. Adam, if you eat of the fruit, you shall surely die. Not only
did Adam die but we also have that FIRST DEATH inside of us. It is called mortality. We
live and die in the first death. We are paying for Adam's sin which is the First Death.

The SECOND DEATH is simular to the FIRST DEATH, a person will live and die in that
world also. The only difference is he will live longer depending on his sentence pass down
@ the Great Day of the Judgment. In the end, God will destroy all DEATH by giving all LIFE.
1st Corinthians 15:26 says,

26 The last enemy that shall be DESTROYED is DEATH.

How do you destroy death?

By giving LIFE! In the end, God will destroy the first death and the second death and bring
LIFE to the multitudes. Now don't get mad @ me because God said it not me. I just believe
It.

Logabe

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Yeah, Satan and his angels so far are the only ones already judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire at the end of Christ's thousand year reign. I strongly believe the wicked (names not written) who also perish with them will actually CHOOSE to perish, simply because if they can't be their own Gods they will still refuse The Father and The Son.

Christ performed many resurrections from the dead during "His" ministry here on earth. Including Lazarus.

The difference is they were not raised incorruptible.