How Many Resurrections Are There? (Rapture Topic)

[BibleScribe]

To All,

If I understand doctrines correctly, I'm confused as to the number of proposed versus Scripturally based resurrections. As such it seems most believe the following sequence:


FIRST: Pre-trib / Mid-Trib / Post-Trib resurrection of the dead, (and then they which are alive shall be caught up).

SECOND: Pre-Millennial resurrection of the martyred saints, who refused to receive the mark of the beast and were killed.

THIRD: Post-Millennial resurrection of the dead for the final judgment.


And my confusion lies in the text which is as follows:

Revelation 20:4-6
[sup]4[/sup] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[sup][a][/sup] thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [sup]6[/sup] Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


And so you should see how I might have been confused, or possibly John was confused, in that he wrote this is the FIRST resurrection, when in fact we ~all~ know that this is actually the SECOND resurrection, -- or so I'm led to believe.


BibleScribe

 

[Episkopos]

There are 2 general resurrections. One is for the household of God and one for the nations.

The first is pre-mil. The saints are judged for honour or dishonour.

The second is post-mil. The righteous are separated from the wicked among the nations. This is for life or death.

 

[BibleScribe]

Hi Episkopos,

I think you left out the one which John declared was a resurrection, (i.e., you identified #1 & #3.) Does this mean John overstated his observation (i.e., #2), to the exclusion of your #1, and his ill advised elevation of a 2nd resurrection to a #1 position?



BibleScribe

 

[BibleScribe]

To all,

I would propose that there are many instances where everyone has a different opinion. It doesn't make any difference what the subject is, -- there are things which may not be fully ascertained, whether it be the number of stars in the heavens, or how long until we get there. In this realm of uncertainty, each presents their opinion as the "best", and assails the others as ~inadequate~. And so the arguments go round and round, none having the TRUTH, but each merely defending the least imperfect position.

Thus I would present the pre, mid, and post tribulation discussion. Each is failed, but the presenters argue that the other two fail more. So if one were to remove him/herself from the immediate fray, do you think Scripture might actually have a TRUE fulfillment? And if this were possible, do you think that the passage in Revelation 20:5 might offer some greater insight?


Revelation 20:4-6
[sup]4[/sup] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[sup][a][/sup] thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [sup]6[/sup] Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


As such, if John describes a sequence where the Martyred Saints are the FIRST resurrection, then what does this say about the church's expectations?


FIRST: Pre-trib / Mid-Trib / Post-Trib resurrection of the dead, (and then they which are alive shall be caught up).

SECOND: Pre-Millennial resurrection of the martyred saints, who refused to receive the mark of the beast and were killed.

THIRD: Post-Millennial resurrection of the dead for the final judgment.



Could church doctrines possibly be WRONG? And if so, then what might be the CORRECT sequence?

BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

For those interested...

1. There is only ONE TRUE resurrection to Eternal Life through Christ Jesus.

There is only ONE resurrection unto 'condemnation', which means eternal death to the "lake of fire" along with the devil, death, and the abode called hell or haides. But condemnation to the "lake of fire" does not occur until AFTER the future thousand years of Rev.20. During Christ's future thousand years reign, most of the unjust will be in a state of temporary condemnation, still in a liable to die the "second death" state per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 in the Greek.


2. Both the resurrection of life, and... the resurrection of damnation, occur at the same time of Christ's second coming (John 5:28-29). ALL that go through Christ's future "thousand years" reign on earth will be in resurrected type bodies, both the Just and the unjust.


3. The "first resurrection" of Rev.20 IMPLIES another resurrection to occur LIKE IT. What is that "first resurrection"? It's a resurrection unto Eternal Life through Christ Jesus. So the implied second one later also must be... what type???


4. Those of the "first resurrection" unto Christ serve as firstfruits, as kings and priests ruling over the 'nations' with Christ during the coming thousand years. They are called to be teachers during that time, as per isaiah 28 those who erred in spirit will come to understanding, and those who murmured shall learn doctrine, in that time. There will be a separation between these elect and the resurrected unjust (Rev.22:14-15; Ezek.44).


5. When Christ's thousand years reign is over, the devil is loosed from his pit prison to deceive the nations of resurrected unjust to go up against the "camp of the saints" on earth. For those of the nations who refuse that final temptation, and remain in Faith on Christ Jesus, those will be of the second IMPLIED resurrection unto Eternal Life.


In Summary:
At Christ's second coming, those of the "first resurrection" will be those of His five wise virgins that overcome by waiting for Him instead of bowing in false worship to the coming tribulation-time fake Christ (Antichrist). Those of the five foolish virgins will not be of that "first resurrection".

During the thousand years, all not of that first resurrection will be taught Doctrine and given Understanding. That will include both the five foolish virgins, and the wicked unjust. At the end of the thousand years, they will be tested with Satan being loosed for a final working of deception. Those among them who remain in Christ will be changed to the resurrection unto Eternal Life; this is the second IMPLIED resurrection at the end of the thousand years.

All others that still follow the devil in his final deceiving will perish in the "lake of fire" called "the second death", the death of one's spirit and soul.

So when Apostle Peter said our Heavenly Father is long-sufferring, and doesn't want anyone to perish, but that all should repent and come to believe on Him through His Son Jesus Christ, He truly meant that.

 

[[email protected]]

There is no such thing as a one or two time prophetic event called THE resurrection. There is a doctrine or doctrines called THE resurrection but no event. What people suppose are prophetic events about resurrection is merely the usage of illustrative language and pictures used to teach the doctrine about resurrection.The basic doctrine of New Testament resurrection is that there is immediate life after death. As opposed to the many theories the Jewish and pagan world holds about life or no life after death. This basic new testament doctrine teaches that this immediate life after death includes a physical body. Not a physical body as as we understand physical but a physical body none the less. In this "new" body we generally go immediately to heaven or hell. Resurrection is past to those who have died, present for those who are dying and future for those still alive.

[font="'Times New Roman"]From Wordeserivce.org [/font][font="'Times New Roman"]Resurrection[/font][font="'Times New Roman"] article: That fact that there is resurrection is not controversial amongst professing Christians. The what, when, where, and how's, are controversial. There will be five main points in this article to show that the word resurrection is used to describe different things; and that the meaning of those things are shown in the context of that particular scripture. This as opposed to the idea or "hermeneutic" that seeks to make resurrection a one time future event based on a small number of the scriptures on the subject. There is also no need to go into the Greek words for resurrection, arose, rise, raised ect ect. These are used interchangeably so often to describe the same events it renders it unnecessary. The five points in order will be: [/font]​

1. That depending on the context of the verses the word resurrection is used to convey the idea that there is immediate life after death that includes a physical body. (Not physical as we know physical, but a physical body none the less.)​

​

2. Again, depending on the context of those scriptures the word resurrection is used to convey the idea of a physical body dying and that same physical body miraculously restored to life as in the case of Lazarus. ​

​

3. Or, as the context dictates, that resurrection can mean a physical body dying and that same physical body being restored to life; but then also becoming a "glorified" body like Jesus. This would also include the case of one never dying first but getting a "glorified" body like Elijah. ​

​

4. Then resurrection depending on the context is used to describe those who are "dead" in sin yet physically alive, becoming "alive" to God or resurrected. In other words a "spiritual" resurrection that occurs while still in our body. ​

​

5. Finally, as the context dictates, a word or a vision of resurrection is used to teach the realities of points #1, #2, #3 or #4. Unfortunately though, like all words or visions from God; there is a natural tendency to interpret them as an event; rather than illustrative language or pictures to describe basic truth.​

​

[font="'Times New Roman"]The article on this link goes through every verse associated with resurrection in the new testament to show these points. [/font]http://wordservice.org/Bible%20Basics/bb6000.htm​

 

[veteran]

There is no such thing as a one or two time prophetic event called THE resurrection. There is a doctrine or doctrines called THE resurrection but no event. What people suppose are prophetic events about resurrection is merely the usage of illustrative language and pictures used to teach the doctrine about resurrection.The basic doctrine of New Testament resurrection is that there is immediate life after death. As opposed to the many theories the Jewish and pagan world holds about life or no life after death. This basic new testament doctrine teaches that this immediate life after death includes a physical body. Not a physical body as as we understand physical but a physical body none the less. In this "new" body we generally go immediately to heaven or hell. Resurrection is past to those who have died, present for those who are dying and future for those still alive.

For those who have already died, yes. (Like Paul taught in 2 Cor.5).

But the subject of the resurrection AT Christ's second coming is another matter, for it involves peoples that are STILL alive on earth at that specific 7th Trumpet event.


John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)


John 5:25-27
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.
(KJV)


There's a timing difference between the two sections of verses above. One is about the event of Christ going to preach The Gospel to the "spirits in prison" at His resurrection per 1 Pet.3 (linked to Isaiah 42). But the other one is about the resurrection at Christ's second coming, a division for His Millennium reign.

 

[BibleScribe]

...
3. The "first resurrection" of Rev.20 IMPLIES another resurrection to occur LIKE IT. What is that "first resurrection"? It's a resurrection unto Eternal Life through Christ Jesus. So the implied second one later also must be... what type???
...

Veteran, I believe you are parsing words. As already provided, according to church doctrine there is a resurrection of the dead, and then the "rapture" of the living (making this the FIRST resurrection); and then the event in Rev. 20:5 MUST be a SECOND resurrection.

So either John is incorrect, or church doctrine is incorrect. Choose one!


BibleScribe

 

[BibleScribe]

To All,

To further what Scripture provides, please consider another aspect, -- the Resurrected:


1. The church declares that the dead (and Christians) shall be raised either pre-, mid-, or post- tribulation.

2. Rev. 20:5 says that the martyred shall be resurrected.

3. Rev. 20:5 also says the rest of the dead are NOT raised.


Thus one must ask -- WHO'S LEFT?


If all the dead have already been raised approximate to the tribulation, and those who went through the tribulation have been martyred and also raised, -- the only dead who are left might be a small handful who ~accepted Jesus at their death bed, which is a difficult hurdle, because virtually everyone who remains on earth is apparently anathema with GOD. And any attending family, friends, or hospital staff would assert THERE IS NOT GOD. So who would lead such a one to Jesus?

But realizing there may be a handful, a hundred, -- why would Scripture make this sweeping statement "the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished", for such an insignificant number?


As such, I would assert that the tribulation-rapture doctrine is incorrect for the following TWO reasons:


1. ... I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded ... This is the first resurrection.

2. ... the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished



BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

Veteran, I believe you are parsing words. As already provided, according to church doctrine there is a resurrection of the dead, and then the "rapture" of the living (making this the FIRST resurrection); and then the event in Rev. 20:5 MUST be a SECOND resurrection.

So either John is incorrect, or church doctrine is incorrect. Choose one!


BibleScribe

Not parsing words, but understanding the Rev.20:5 Scripture by not separating it out of The Bible by itself; i.e., allowing God's Word to interpret God's Word. God's Word teaches a an idea like 'spiritual death' as a literal condition. Christ used it in Matt.23:27 and Luke 11:44 applied to the blind scribes and Pharisees. It's an idea from the OT, like Isaiah 26:14 about the Rephaim (giants) that shall not rise (never be resurrected), which is the ultimate spiritual death sense among Satan's hosts. The most direct Scripture parallel is in Ezekiel 44 about the "dead".

 

[veteran]

To All,

To further what Scripture provides, please consider another aspect, -- the Resurrected:


1. The church declares that the dead (and Christians) shall be raised either pre-, mid-, or post- tribulation.

2. Rev. 20:5 says that the martyred shall be resurrected.

3. Rev. 20:5 also says the rest of the dead are NOT raised.

The Rev.20:5 verse is NOT about the "martyred" at all like your no. 2.

If you try to apply its phrase, "This is the first resurrection" to those same "dead" of that verse, then you err in separating the subject of the first resurrection from the previous Rev.20:4 verse.

In John 5:28-29, Christ said at the sound of His voice, ALL will be resurrected, either to the resurrection of life, or to the resurrection of damnation. So the Rev.20:5 MUST be kept in relation to what He said, which reveals the "dead" of Rev.20:5 is about the 'spiritually dead', their souls not having put on immortality through Christ Jesus like Paul taught in 1 Cor.15.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

That event when ALL will be resurrected at Christ's second coming, is also written in Isaiah 25 where Apostle Paul was pulling from in 1 Cor.15 when teaching about the resurrection. Without grasping all that, the "dead" of Rev.20:5 will be wrongly assumed to mean they have no presence during Christ's "thousand years" reign.

 

[veteran]

If all the dead have already been raised approximate to the tribulation, and those who went through the tribulation have been martyred and also raised, -- the only dead who are left might be a small handful who ~accepted Jesus at their death bed, which is a difficult hurdle, because virtually everyone who remains on earth is apparently anathema with GOD. And any attending family, friends, or hospital staff would assert THERE IS NOT GOD. So who would lead such a one to Jesus?

Those are several wrong assumptions that come from concepts outside God's Word.

At Christ's second coming, ALL are raised from the dead, but NOT ALL are of the resurrection unto Life...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

There; I even put the two different resurrection TYPES in separate colors for you. So the two different TYPES of resurrection are undeniable for one who stays in God's Word as written.

Which TYPE of resurrection would those Rev.20:5 "dead" be about?? Simple, the "resurrection of damnation". But WHY... is that "resurrection of damnation" even called a 'resurrection'? That's what you, and many others, have missed from Scripture.


As for ideas that with Christ's coming He's going to remove His saints off the earth while the 'dead' are still in flesh bodies upon the earth, that idea IS NOT WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD. Revelation 20 later on easily reveals how that is a false assumption by many, including many of today's Churches...

Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(KJV)

the "dead" of Rev.20:5 = "the nations which are in the four corners of the earth"

Where does Satan lead them to go up against those of the "first resurrection"? They go "up on the breadth of the earth", which on earth is where the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" is located during Christ's Millennium reign.

So Christ's saints at the "camp of the saints" are not up in the clouds somewhere, with the nations only upon the earth. ALL... are upon the earth for that time.

 

[veteran]

Why does our Lord Jesus teach us that at the sound of His voice, ALL that are in the graves will be raised, meaning at His second coming, either to one of the TWO TYPES of resurrection, those who have done good to the "resurrection of life", and those who have done evil to the "resurrection of damnation"? (John 5:28-29)

HOW is it that even the unjust wicked are resurrected also at Christ's return, with that "resurrection of damnation"?


It's because Christ already showed us with Lazarus and the rich man of Luke 16 that there is a literal divider in the heavenly between the spiritually dead, and His saints.

That divider is going to also exist on earth during Christ's future thousand years reign. The division then will be between those of the "first resurrection" of His saints inside "the camp of the saints" and "beloved city" on earth (Rev.20:9), while OUTSIDE that camp also on earth will be those of the nations that represent the "dead" of Rev.20:5, which are those of the "resurrection of damnation."

This is why Christ revealed to the Church of Philadelphia the following about that future Millennium time...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
(KJV)

In that future Millennium time, Christ says He will make the false Jews who hate Him to come worship at the feet of His elect (meaning they will worship Christ Jesus standing near His elect in that time). They are going to bow... before Christ's elect of the "first resurrection" to worship Christ Jesus.

HOW would that even be possible, if Christ's elect are in some other place away from those false Jews in that time? They won't be in some other place than on this earth. We ALL are going to be in resurrection type bodies during that future thousand years, and that includes the 'unjust'' like those false Jews who hate Christ Jesus.

So what is... the real difference in that future time?

Well, what is the spiritual difference today... between Christ's elect and those who reject Him? Surely my Christian brethren that have believed on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, and His Blood shed on the cross, having been 'born again' through that belief, can understand the difference of people's SPIRITUAL CONDITION today? Today, one is either a born again believer on Christ Jesus, or, they are not.

LIKEWISE, in that future Millennium time, that SAME difference with SPIRITUAL CONDITIONS is going to exist. Apostle Paul explained this in 1 Corinthians 15, but per the Greek. Paul was actually pointing to TWO TYPES of resurrection in the 1 Cor.15:53-54 Scripture. It's why in Acts 24:15 he said it was his 'hope' there will be both a resurrection of the just, and the unjust (wicked).

Everything I've covered in the above is from understanding what the idea of the 'resurrection' is as written, and it is a tight weave of many Scripture points on the subject of the resurrection, as they must be put together in understanding as a whole to really grasp the matter. Does what I've covered agree with what many of the Churches are teaching? No. There are many matters of tradition taught in the Churches that part from God's Holy Writ, which really are of men's many traditions loosely based on God's Word, i.e., 'milk' teaching, and not the "strong meat" of The Word of God.

 

[BibleScribe]

Those are several wrong assumptions that come from concepts outside God's Word.

At Christ's second coming, ALL are raised from the dead, but NOT ALL are of the resurrection unto Life...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)
...

Veteran,

You refute exactly who is left to resurrect:


1. The church declares that the dead (and Christians) shall be raised either pre-, mid-, or post- tribulation.

2. Rev. 20:5 says that the martyred shall be resurrected.

3. Rev. 20:5 also says the rest of the dead are NOT raised.

Thus one must ask -- WHO'S LEFT?


... by claiming that the dead are not resurrected:

... NOT ALL are of the resurrection unto Life


... when the verse you cite includes the resurrection of both unto life and damnation:

unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



As such one must wonder if you have an agenda which defies both Scripture and logic. So I once again provide the text which disputes the pre-, mid-, and post- tribulation rapture doctrine:

Rev. 20:4-5
[sup]4[/sup] ... And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[sup][a][/sup] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.


As such one should recognize that a tribulation era rapture would require the resurrection of the dead (and that being the FIRST resurrection), and it would also virtually negate any need to cite that the "rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended", because up to that point ALL THE DEAD WERE ACCOUNTED FOR.

So either Scripture is wrong in calling the resurrection of the martyred as the FIRST resurrection, and also wrong in presuming that there were any dead REMAINING which needed to be accounted for, -- or the tribulation era rapture event is a false doctrine.



Take your pick, either believe Scripture or church doctrine.

BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

Veteran,

You refute exactly who is left to resurrect:


1. The church declares that the dead (and Christians) shall be raised either pre-, mid-, or post- tribulation.

2. Rev. 20:5 says that the martyred shall be resurrected.

3. Rev. 20:5 also says the rest of the dead are NOT raised.

Thus one must ask -- WHO'S LEFT?


... by claiming that the dead are not resurrected:

... NOT ALL are of the resurrection unto Life


... when the verse you cite includes the resurrection of both unto life and damnation:

unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



As such one must wonder if you have an agenda which defies both Scripture and logic. So I once again provide the text which disputes the pre-, mid-, and post- tribulation rapture doctrine:

Rev. 20:4-5
[sup]4[/sup] ... And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[sup][a][/sup] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.


As such one should recognize that a tribulation era rapture would require the resurrection of the dead (and that being the FIRST resurrection), and it would also virtually negate any need to cite that the "rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended", because up to that point ALL THE DEAD WERE ACCOUNTED FOR.

So either Scripture is wrong in calling the resurrection of the martyred as the FIRST resurrection, and also wrong in presuming that there were any dead REMAINING which needed to be accounted for, -- or the tribulation era rapture event is a false doctrine.



Take your pick, either believe Scripture or church doctrine.

BibleScribe

Your statements disprove nothing of what I covered about the resurrection in my previous posts.

It appears you're still wrestling with the Rev.20 chapter events, as many do.

Even Rev.3:9 reveals the false Jews will be able to bow at the feet of Christ's elect who reign with Him during the Millennium time.

And we well know those false Jews who refuse Christ Jesus certainly will NOT be of the "first resurrection" that rule with Him in that time!

So how is it those of the "synagogue of Satan" will be made to bow to Christ in that time?

 

[BibleScribe]

Your statements disprove nothing of what I covered about the resurrection in my previous posts.
...

You are correct in that I did not offer any statement which refutes your assertion that resurrection unto LIFE was somehow disconnected from the resurrection unto damnation. For you see that statement was not from me, but from YOU, but not orginally from YOU, but from GOD. Thus the originator of that statement was certainly NOT me:

John 5:29
... unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


And so I reiterate that according to the church's tribulation era rapture doctrine, all the dead in Christ are raised (you "FIRST" resurrection), then the martyred dead (your "SECOND" resurrection, but John's FIRST resurrection), and so there really are no significant "dead" left to address as being NOT raised until the thousand years are ended.



But if you want to renumber the sequence from what John has stipulated, then who am I to stop you? Or better said, -- who is GOD to stop you?

BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

You are correct in that I did not offer any statement which refutes your assertion that resurrection unto LIFE was somehow disconnected from the resurrection unto damnation. For you see that statement was not from me, but from YOU, but not orginally from YOU, but from GOD. Thus the originator of that statement was certainly NOT me:

John 5:29
... unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

But there's still a specific matter you're not addressing, when you appear to think I'm the one missing something. The full John 5:28-29 subject verses contain more info about 'timing'...

John 5:27-29
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

The time of that specific "hour" and sound of "His voice" is the time of Christ's second coming. It's the "shout" of 1 Thess.4:16, the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15:52. It's not for after His Millennium reign, not during or before the tribulation either. Christ's second coming is on "the day of the Lord" which is an event that ENDS the tribulation He spoke of in Matt.24 and Mark 13. It's also the time when He will gather His elect from the four winds.

So the order is this -
1. tribulation events
2. that "hour", "shout", "day of the Lord" to end the tribulation; general resurrection (both the just and the unjust) and the gathering to Christ
3. day one of His "thousand years" Millennium reign with His elect of the "first resurrection"


Per that, BOTH the just and... the unjust are resurrected at no.2 on the day of Christ's return.

The "unjust" of Acts 24:15 are the resurrected "dead" of Rev.20:5, what Christ called "the resurrection of damnation".

In other words, the John 5:29 "resurrection of damnation" does not happen at the end... of the thousand years, but at the beginning of the thousand years with Christ's coming.


But those of the "first resurrection", that's both the martyred saints and those who overcame through Christ, His faithful Church of the present world. The saints martyred during the tribulation will already... be with Christ, and will return with Him at the end of the tribulation. That was Paul's subject in 1 Thess.4 that we who remain on earth until Christ returns will no way precede the saints that have already died in Christ. Not all the Church will be martyred during the tribulation. Lot of faithful saints will still be alive on earth all the way up to Christ's coming.

And so I reiterate that according to the church's tribulation era rapture doctrine, all the dead in Christ are raised (you "FIRST" resurrection), then the martyred dead (your "SECOND" resurrection, but John's FIRST resurrection), and so there really are no significant "dead" left to address as being NOT raised until the thousand years are ended.

That poses a conflict, because there's only one time of those of the "first resurrection". It will happen at Christ's coming. The whole faithful Church during this present world make up those of that "first resurrection".

But the 2nd inferred... resurrection of Life unto Christ, is only about the overcomers who only do so at the END of the "thousand years", i.e., those who come to Christ during the "thousand years" and remain faithful when Satan is loosed one last time to deceive the nations per Rev.20:7-9. Those are certainly not the martyred saints, nor the faithful saints who overcome during this world. Instead, these are the overcomers among those "dead" of Rev.20:5 that are taught during Christ's Milennium reign and turn to Christ.


Apostle Paul was specific in 1 Corinthians 15 about TWO changes that MUST occur to be of the resurrection unto eternal Life through Christ. One must be changed from the "image of the earthy" to the "image of the heavenly", AND one's "mortal" self must put on "immortality" through Christ Jesus.

Because the 'unjust' are raised to the "resurrection of damnation" at Christ's coming also, that means those will go through the image body change also at Christ's coming. BUT... their "this mortal" part will NOT have put on "immortality" which is required for the resurrection of Life through Christ. Their "this mortal" part Paul taught will still be in a 'liable to die' type of condition. That's why Rev.20:5 calls them "the dead". They are not literally dead, like in a grave out in the field. Instead, it's their soul or spirit that is spiritually dead without Christ.

That is HOW the "synagogue of Satan" false Jews will be of the "resurrection of damnation", and able to bow at the feet of Christ's elect per Rev.3:9. It's because the "resurrection of damnation" is about the change to a "spiritual body" also, but whatever "this mortal" part Paul mentioned not having put on "immortality" through Christ Jesus.

ONLY those of the "first resurrection" will go through the image body change AND their "mortal" part putting on "immortality" through Christ Jesus. THIS is why Rev.20 teaches those of the "first resurrection" can never be subject to the "second death", which is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the END of Christ's "thousand years" reign.

It all sounds... difficult, but it's not. It's simply a matter of paying attention.

 

[BibleScribe]

...
That poses a conflict, because there's only one time of those of the "first resurrection". It will happen at Christ's coming. The whole faithful Church during this present world make up those of that "first resurrection".
...

Hi Veteran,

You are exactly correct in that a Tribulation era rapture is a "conflict" with Scripture. But where you attempt to bail a boat already at the bottom of the lake, I propose you need a different boat. The only question is whether you continue to bail your sunk vessel. And that is YOUR choice.

I can only provide the TRUTH. Others must either receive or reject it.



BibleScribe

 

[popeye]

There is only one resurrection, pre-mil. Those WHO'S BODIES lie dead in graves throughout Christian history are changed and reunited with their souls, and THEN those who are in Christ but are alive, shall be changed and scooped-up to meet Christ in the air. These same souls are also one and the same as the saints who accompany Christ to earth at Armageddon. These same saints are one and the same as those John is referring to in Rev 20:5.

But, I offer further confusion for you, BibleScribe.

Who are the 144K "firstfruits" who are seen with Christ on Mt Zion at the opening of Rev Chp 14? And how did they get there having had been "redeemed from earth" ( Rev 14:3 ). This seems to indicate the "firstfruits" were "raptured" seperate from the general resurrection. And certainly, not only the ET's generation has hold on every "firstfruit", because "firstfruits" can come from any generation since Christ was on earth. This reasoning seems to imply that many of those "firstfruits" were dead and some were living in the ET's generation as well. And yet they are only counted 144K, and not "multitudes".

What resurrection is this?

Thought I'd "make your day" on your confusion , as I'm right there with ya buddy!

 

[veteran]

Hi Veteran,

You are exactly correct in that a Tribulation era rapture is a "conflict" with Scripture. But where you attempt to bail a boat already at the bottom of the lake, I propose you need a different boat. The only question is whether you continue to bail your sunk vessel. And that is YOUR choice.

I can only provide the TRUTH. Others must either receive or reject it.

BibleScribe

That's nothing more than broad sweeping statements of opinion instead of staying in God's Word to allow God's Word to interpret Itself for us. You can take each item I covered and only counter by going outside of Scripture.