I'm not the one attacking. I'm defending like always.
Where does the Pope get his authority?
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I never claimed that I wrote an award-winning book. But do I think it is an award-winning book? Hell yeah since I believe Jesus Christ himself likes the book.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
There were only 2 things instituted before sin in Eden. One was the Sabbath, the other marriage. Both Jesus made holy. Jesus Himself declared Himself Lord of the Sabbath day. And you continue to think the exact same thing as Babylon, that you are lord of the Sabbath and can do what you like with it.
Indeed He did. So in the beginning the Sabbath was a memorial of creation...
KJV Genesis 2:1-3
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
God saw that a Sabbath was essential for man, even in Paradise. He needed to lay aside his own interests and pursuits for one day of the seven, that he might more fully contemplate the works of God and meditate upon His power and goodness. He needed a Sabbath to remind him more vividly of God and to awaken gratitude because all that he enjoyed and possessed came from the beneficent hand of the Creator.
KJV Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The fourth commandment is the only one of all the ten in which are found both the name and the title of the Lawgiver. It is the only one that shows by whose authority the law is given. Thus it contains the seal of God, affixed to His law as evidence of its authenticity and binding force. Remove the 4th commandment from the 10, and tell us who was the authority behind that law from the remaining 9.
KJV Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
You claim the Bible to be your authority, yet no-one, either you or anyone else here espousing Babylonian principles, have shown from scripture where there is written, "thus saith the Lord, the observance of the 4th Commandment is now rescinded".
What law?
Weak theology born of a shallow understanding of the nature of God.
If I could show you the end of a piece of string, does that mean the string no longer exists? If I could show you the end of the journey, does that mean the road ceases to exist? If I could show you the menu, does that mean the cooking process is now unnecessary?
Wow. At last we are getting somewhere, even though you don't appreciate what you just said. Yes, the Ten Commandments are principles by which we are to live. They are generalised big picture presentations that cover the full extent of God's righteousness. Much in the same way as Christ said that upon loving God with all the heart, soul, mind, and body, and loving your neighbour as yourself, hung all the law and the prophets. Yes, those principles lay behind and were intimately integrated into all Christ's teachings... Yet you would have it that when Jesus died, all of that, except some nebulous spirit led mindset, disappeared. Replaced. Irrelevant.
The law of God is transgressed producing sin. God provides the remedy, an animal which covers the shame of Adam and Eve, and upon which in due time the entire sanctuary service and priesthood is developed and codified. Thus the remedy for sin is established. It isn't perfect, but it's God's plan. It's His process. And if the individual accepted and believed in the efficacy of the blood of the Lamb, He was showing faith in the efficacy of the blood of the Lamb. Just as Abraham did, "who saw My day and was glad".
It wasn't the law of God as written in the Ten Commandments that were nailed to the cross. It was the law of Moses, the law of types and symbols that revealed God's plan of salvation to mankind, and was open for everyone to be a part of and receive it's blessing as the remedy for sin. It was the Remedy that was nailed to the cross, not the law which was the pointer to the need of a remedy.
To what end will it serve to see the farm when one cannot discern the difference between the tares and the wheat that grow on it?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Please find me the command to observe the Sabbath that was made to Adam.....or anyone else before the Law was given to the nation of Israel. If you can't, then you have no real argument.
As above....show me where God told Adam to set aside the seventh day to rest.
God rested on the seventh day, which was not a 24 hour day.....the seventh day has not yet ended.....that is what makes Jesus Lord of the Sabbath. God sanctified this period that he set aside to allow his creation to exercise their free will.....and to deal with whatever difficulties came up, all the while keeping his original purpose on track.
To the Israelites it was a memorial of their liberation from slavery in Egypt...
Exodus 31:16-17...
"The Israelites must keep the Sabbath; they must observe the Sabbath during all their generations. It is a lasting covenant. 17 It is an enduring sign between me and the people of Israel, for in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and refreshed himself.’”
No one else was given God's Law....nor were they under a covenant relationship with Israel's God. People of the nations could become Jewish converts, but they could never be "Jews" as the sons of Abraham.
Yes...to Israel. God's law was given to no other nation.
It was a perfect Law given in a covenant to an imperfect people to remind them daily of their need for a savior.....when the savior came and fulfilled the Law...it was removed to make way for the new covenant and a new Law.
How is that a difficult concept? The principles of the Law remained in the two laws stated to Christ's disciples. Jesus said that on those two, the whole law was based.
Ah yes, "the great commission"....are SDA's out there preaching the gospel? In my ministry over the last few decades I have called on many SDA's, and I can say that they are very nice people, but not terribly literate when it comes to the Bible. I had one elderly lady lament that they were losing their young ones to the world, and how sad she was to attend her church on the Sabbath and find mainly older ones in attendance. As the older ones pass away, young ones were not replacing them. Is that still the case, Brakelite?
I found them somewhat wishy washy over the celebration of Christmas and Easter.
The Law of Moses...the written code governing all of Israel's conduct and worship...their daily activities. Its not just the 10 Commandments....there were hundreds of laws.
Have you ever spoken to Orthodox Jews to find out how the law impacts their life every day? What they have to do before they walk out the door in the morning....its mind boggling.
What? Now you are making no sense at all....
You have not been reading my posts if that is what you think I said.....I have never said that the laws of God are irrelevant...they were perfect, but the people were not. The Law was therefore a "curse" as Paul said.
Gal 3:13...
"Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”
Romans :6...
"But now we have been released from the Law, because we have died to that which restrained us, in order that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit and not in the old sense by the written code."
Are you getting the import of this?
The Law was no longer binding on God's servants because it had served its purpose and it was time to make way for a new covenant and a new Law.....the law of love made the old law obsolete.
I am rather amazed that the trees are obscuring your view of the forest...
I can clearly see what differentiates the "wheat" from the "weeds" because Jesus is the one who gives us the criteria for any claim on our part to be "Christians". Understanding that parable is very important.
Last edited:
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
This is how this one started. They are all the same. I say the gospels are written mostly to Israel and not to Christians as the Catholics taught us. Someone says I'm wrong. After a debate for a few days I say look it the gospels are not addressed to Christians. You guys need to read my book. Then someone goes to one of my sites and sees a book on a website that was created last week (that is still being edited) and sees the website that's being created by a guy who I never met that is promoting the book by saying it's great, awesome . It's award winning. Now we are no longer debating about that the gospels are not written to Christians. Now he comes back with how can this book be any good. Has it been property published? Has it really won awards. It seems to me you are into deception. You are not honest and now we see how you operate. The conversation was turned from the gospels not being written to us to me and my deception.
They did the same thing to Jesus. He spit the Word of God right in their eye and they could not win on the subject matter so they came back with well, we have not been born like you out of wedlock. And you did not go to the proper schools and so we know you're an uneducated man and yet you think you can teach us. It's the same damn thing. They shift the subject matter to attacking him personally. The gospels were not written to Christians. There's no such thing as our Father give us this day our daily bread. The Christian already has everything in Christ Jesus. We are completely complete in him. Israel had to pray for their daily bread because they were not completely complete in him because Jesus had not yet been resurrected.
One can lie about the accolades afforded one's book, yet the content of the book could theoretically still be accurate. But it is still fair to impeach the author's credibility by pointing out his lie.
As Luke 16:10 put it, "If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities."
I heard on the radio which I do not trust that Genesis was written after Exodus based on Manuscript evidence. Does anyone have information on the manuscript evidence from liberal sources?
He's still editing and making changes and there are a bunch that I found that I did not like. As I type he is still making my changes. We have not even started advertising yet. The video is not finished. The site has been up a whole week mostly just for me to look it over and suggest my changes. I gave the website out to only two people you being one of them and already you attack. And the gospels are still not written to Christians.
You gave your website out to everyone, by posting a link in Post #486. That's where I got it.
Who is the "he" that you are letting make changes to your website -- and did he or did you insert that your book is "award-winning"? If it was him, why on earth would you repeat the lie in Post #494 -- unless to perpetuate it?
You are ultimately responsible for what is on your site, not someone else. You own the copyright, don't you? So please stop the blame game.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
See my posts in the thread, "why it's important to keep the Sabbath".
On your challenge that the Sabbath at the time of creation wasn't a day, and wasn't offered to Adam, a challenge by the way that is bereft of any evidence but oozing with over confident imagination, I have 2 questions to put to you.
First, if the Sabbath, described by God Himself as the 7th day, was not a day at all but a metaphor or ongoing present reality, then please explain from whence did the patriarchs of humanity discover the week?
Second question. Jesus said in
KJV Mark 2:27
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath;
this speaks of the day as a gift for mankind. Jesus did not say it was a gift only for the Jews, but the word He used was
ἄνθρωπος anthropos anth’-ro-pos
from 435 and ops (the countenance, from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being; n m; TDNT-1:364,59; {See TDNT 72} {See TDNT "the Son of Man" 807}
AV-man 552, not tr 4, misc 3; 559
1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels
In other words, a gift for all mankind. A gift which He hasn't taken back, and which He never hinted would be replaced or done away with in any sense.
It wasn't at that time a command, but as Jesus said, the Sabbath was made for man. Surely you don't suppose that all mankind excluded Adam and his children? Or perhaps you think that Jesus sent Adam to work on the first day of his life?
I already told you more then once that I did not say I had an award winning book. I just got off the phone with the guy who is building my website. We are still editing it and the gospels are still not written to Christians.
P.S. Maybe I will keep the award winning book that he put there. Why not promote Jesus Christ since the book is about him.
Last edited:
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Please provide a link.
Who said it was bereft of evidence? The scriptures and established science tell us that the earth was not created along with the Universe only 6,000 years ago. There were no dinosaurs on the ark. The earth has been in existence for way longer that YEC's claim and they cannot account for extinct species whose remains have been found and identified as perhaps hundreds of thousands if not million of years old. There is no evidence that man and dinosaurs co-existed on this planet.
Science does not argue with the Bible if God invented the things that true and established science studies.
The creation account is divided into 6 periods of time that God called "days"....in Hebrew that word has a much broader meaning that just 24 hours. Each of those periods could have been millions of years long...an infinite God does not live in earth time and he has his own agenda in creation, taking as long as he needed to created each and every living thing. God is not a magician....his creations are his careful and well thought out plans of action....taking all the time he needed to get things just right.....and don't we see that in creation?
The "days" God took to fulfill each one's own agenda were completed to God's satisfaction right up to the end of the 6th day, which with the creation of mankind, was said to be "very good"....what does "very good" mean to God? Everything was just as he planned it to be....perfect.
But the day of rest would be like all the other days....not 24 hours long, but periods of time where material creating was finished, but God's work was not finished at all. (John 5:17) He now had an indefinite period of time for all contingencies to be worked out regarding the gift of free will.....if it was abused, then God would have to deal with it....and he was ready for whatever happened. Again, time was needed to sort things out so that at the end of the 7th day a declaration could again be made as to it success. Why do you think there is no declaration ending the 7th day? Because it had to run its course and serve its purpose, like all the other "days". It will end when God's "will is done on earth as it is in heaven"....the coming of God;s Kingdom will take a thousand earth years to accomplish a successful conclusion to the entire creative process. Stand back...and look up.
God is the one who gave them their counting of days and weeks and months according to the rotation of the earth and the phases of the moon as well as the seasons, as he said in Genesis 1:14-19. Nothing to do with the 7th day at all.
Perhaps when viewed from the perspective of the 7th day still running, it will be a "day" when all humanity will finally attain the sinless perfection that God intended at the outset....
The Sabbath rest of God will finally be declared a complete success....his greatest "gift" to all "mankind" will finally be a reality...peace on earth with mankind finally reconciled to God. (Rev 21:2-4)
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Show me from nature where the 7 day week is measured from.
The rest of your post, I have no interest in discussing. But it does explain your rejection of the Sabbath... You reject God's word.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Why its important to keep the Sabbath
Barney, Observing the saturday sabbath as a 'requirement' and attaching it to Christ is contrary to the FINISHED Work of God that HE accomplished for us when HE went to the Cross for our sins. Salvation is in CHRIST alone and HE is the very ESSENCE of the 7th Day of Rest. Saturday sabbath...
www.christianityboard.com
Because keeping "award winning" would be an attempt to promote Jesus Christ by deception. Whatever you may think about the Christian subject matter of the book qualifying it as "award winning," that is not what the reading public would understand -- or is intended to understand. I'm flabbergasted that you don't see this, and would even entertain the thought for a moment.
Is this the first time you saw advertising that was not 100 percent true? I'm promoting Jesus Christ. You stay flabbergasted and keep prompting all your lies and deception about the trinity and the gospels are written to Christians and that we are all sinners with a sin nature. And I will promote Jesus Christ.
Not the first time I have seen false advertising. Definitely the first time I have seen wilful false advertising being justified as promoting Jesus Christ.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Are you serious? The Jews used a lunar calendar.....the phases of the moon are so predictable that any day or week or month of the year can be predicted with accuracy into the indefinite future.
Genesis 1:14-19....
"Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years. 15 They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars. 17 Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth 18 and to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day."
Can the Bible make it any plainer?
Nature teaches us a lot about God....you are not listening.
It explains what I have been trying to tell you....our rejection of the Sabbath is not a rejection of God's word, which never mandated a Sabbath observance to Adam, or to any faithful servant of God including Abraham....until his law was given to Israel exclusively after their release from slavery in Egypt.
That was under the old covenant and now we are under the new one....
To the Galatians, many of whom became believers through Paul's teachings, he said...
"But now that you have come to know God or, rather, have come to be known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to the weak and beggarly elementary things and want to slave for them over again? 10 You are scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." (Gal 4:9-11)
Can you not see that these Christians, (the congregation was made up of both Jewish and Gentiles believers) were still trying to gain God's approval by works of the Law......they had been freed from what had cursed them as sinners for centuries, but still did not quite get the meaning of their liberation. Observance of the Sabbath, whist not condemned, is still a left over from the old Law.....it is NOT a requirement for Christians, and sticking your fingers in your ears will not make that go away.
Similar threads
