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Due to a possibility of confusion and an inability to easily track the OP I have decided to copy and paste previous posts from my last thread so this may be lengthy. I apologize if there is any overlap of ideas presented and for the inconsistency in my previous thread. You may notice some minor changes, especially in the arguments presented. God Bless!
I seek to search the concept of human free-will in accordance with the sovereignty of God.
Let me now affirm I am in no way advocating any ideology other than Christianity and use scripture as the basis of my authority. With this said that does not mean drawing from sources that have also studied this subject detracts from anyones personal integrity, as long as one affirms that information is not one's own. It seems my style of presentation of ideas from earlier posts may have eluded to hidden intentions, as to which I deny. I again ask the Holy Spirit's cooperation in this endeavor in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
Let me address now some objections that may arise. I am not promoting the ideas of fatalism or antinomianism. I am not promoting the idea that man is void of choice. I am not attempting to explain how man's decisions fit within God's purpose. I am not attempting to define the synergy between man's responsibility and God's sovereignty. I am not attempting to create a new ideology. I am not at this time interested in election or predestination, although very interesting topics and somewhat related, I feel they will prove to be distracting.
The reasoning of this subject is as such. It seems some in the church have this notion that God will not supersede man's free-will. I admit I too at one time held this lie of an idea and have said something to the effect of, "I think God operates on a number of plan Bs". Due to more recent studies, I now hold to the notion that I was wrong in my initial assumption and restate my thinking process to state God has, is, and will always operate implementing plan A.
REASONING
1. This line of thinking, God will not supersede man's free-will, is first unbiblical. There are many cases in the bible where this is simply not true, as to which I will demonstrate later.
2. This line of thinking subjects God to man as opposed to man to God.
I am certain this list can be expanded upon but rather than being exhaustive on this subject I choose to be effective.
From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
“Free Will” is a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives."
This is the accepted definition that is circulated throughout secular society and when referring to free-will this is most likely what mot people think of free-will being. I hold to the notion that biblically the case can be made that man simply does not fit within this definition in accordance with his will and thereby this definition of free-will can not be applied to man. I conclude that either this notion of free-will for the Christian be redefined or be disregarded altogether for a more biblical idea of man's limited-will.
God supersedes man's will
Saul of Tarsus
This man is one example of how God exerts His will over humanity. If it were that Saul were free to choose as he wishes, why the road to Damascus incident? Why would God strike this man with blindness and command him to do anything?
Jonah
If it were that Jonah had free-will and God does not impose His will over humanity why did Jonah end up in a great fish? Why would God not rather select another individual to carry out the task he asked Jonah to do?
Pharaoh
Scripture is clear in the fact that God was the acting agent in the case of the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. Exodus 11:10
Judgement
If man were free to choose as he wishes why the thought of judgement to begin with? God has evidentially judged humanity on several occasions, but what is the point of judgement if God has given man freedom of choice?
A few verses that show God supersedes
Exodus 10:1
1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,
Proverbs 21:1
1 The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.
Jeremiah 10:23
23 I know, O Lord, that a man’s way is not in himself, Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
Man is subject to God and not the reverse
If it were true that man has free-will that would mean God is dependent on man's choices and would need to react accordingly in order to keep His own plans and intentions in place. This idea detracts from God's omniscience. I say it detracts from His omniscience because God would be dependent on man's decisions especially in the case of salvation thereby His outlook on the future would be cloudy but from scripture we know this can not be true.
Isaiah 46:10
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
Revelation 1:8
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Kingdoms in humanity are an era long past and the mindset is also. In the past the idea of a sovereign king was simply accepted and his subjects were just that, subject. Now we have more of a democratic society throughout the western world, which I in no way disagree with, but the mindset of the common man has changed. God is our King and we are subject to Him, He is not subject to our free-will.
Daniel 4:17
17 “This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men.”
Now I once heard John Piper talk about God's sovereignty. Interesting but I am not exactly so sure God micro manages everything the way he describes, although . If you want to watch here it is it is only about 6 mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh8XbsB3uLY
Has God decreed I am going to choose chocolate ice-cream as opposed to strawberry? I am not quite that convinced, but God is definite, absolute, and sovereign. Of this I am quite convinced and certain. God did know I was going to choose chocolate, but again I don't think he decreed it, I believe he left that choice to me.
Unsaved agents in accordance with free-will
Let me state I do believe that unsaved agents can do good in this world, although that standard of good is man's standard and not God's. The hidden sin behind every action anyone can do is pride. Charles De Gaulle states it as such “Every man of action has a strong dose of egoism, pride, hardness, and cunning. But all those things will be regarded as high qualities if he can make them the means to achieve great ends.”
Yes these qualities the world may regard as high, but I am certain God does not. Isaiah 2:11 Matthew 23:12 In this the man of God cries out in harmony with the psalmist: Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults, also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins; let them not rule over me; then I will be blameless, and I shall be acquitted of great transgression. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer.
Moving now to scripture we can see the position of humanity before grace.
Genesis 6:5
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Jeremiah 17:9
9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Matthew 15:18
18 “But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
19 “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
John 8:33
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
Romans 1:21
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 3:10-18
10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Scripture is full and clear describing the depraved state of humanity. Jesus Himself says anyone who sins is a slave to it. Being a slave means you are not your own, you are owned by another agent. We know there are only two types of children, children of God and children of wrath, whose father is the devil.
First case, the unregenerate is unable to please God. Hebrews 11:6
The reasoning is given by Paul also in Romans 8:7-8
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even ableto do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
First argument:
1. An agent possessing free will can freely choose any course of action.
2. Those agents who's mind is set on the flesh can not subject itself to the law of God or please God.
3. Free-will as defined does not exist or is only possessed by agents who's mind is not set on the flesh.
Necessity
Consequence or recourse is the effect of choice. True freedom is simply that, free. The simple fact of consequence proves not all choices are free for if they were free then consequence could not lay claim. I know of only one agent in which this statement can not be applied, that is God. To restate, God is the only one to be able to choose as He pleases without having anyone to answer to or having consequence, thereby He is the only one to have free-will.
I have proven that the unregenerate is unable to possess free-will, yet even the regenerate is only regenerate because of the grace of God. Not that we choose him freely, but that He first chooses us. Romans 3:11 John 15:16 Ephesians 1:4 God's grace is then the necessary agent in order to allow humans to be able to choose God's standard of good. Thereby we do all things from necessity not free-will.
Martian Luther in his response to Erasmus titled "Bondage of the Will" put it as such "It now then follows, that "free-will is plainly a divine term, and can be applicable to none but the divine Majesty only; for He alone "doth (as the Psalm sings) what He will in Heaven and earth." Whereas, if it be ascribed unto men, it is not more properly ascribed, than the divinity of God Himself would be ascribed unto them: which would be the greatest sacrilege."
Second argument.
1. God is free to make His choices without consequence or needing anything thereby God has free-will.
2. Man's choices come with consequences.
3. Man can not choose to do good without God's necessary intervention.
4. Man does not have free-will as defined.
God's sovereignty
The Sovereignty of God is now the next portion I will address. Scripture is full of instances that prove God is Sovereign.
Psalm 103:19
19 The Lord has established His throne in the heavens, And His sovereignty rules over all.
Proverbs 16:33
33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the Lord.
Proverbs 16:1-4
1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.
2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the Lord weighs the motives.
3 Commit your works to the Lord And your plans will be established.
4 The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Exodus 10:1
1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,
Deuteronomy 2:30
30 “But Sihon king of Heshbon was not willing for us to pass through his land; for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, in order to deliver him into your hand, as he is today.
Deuteronomy 29:4
4 “Yet to this day the Lord has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.
Deuteronomy 32:39
39 ‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life.
I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
Proverbs 21:1
1 The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.
Isaiah 63:17
17 Why, O Lord, do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You? Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage.
Jeremiah 10:23
23 I know, O Lord, that a man’s way is not in himself, Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
Jeremiah 32:40
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.
Daniel 4:35
35 “All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven Andamong the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’
Acts 16:14
14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
Romans 9:16
16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
2 Corinthians 5:14
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
2 Timothy 4:18
18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
1 Peter 5:10
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.
God does indeed intervene in the affairs of humanity. I pray you reflect on these passages and see it is God who is in control and not you over your life. Truly the posture of the prophet Jeremiah was one of submission Jeremiah 10:23 so why is it so many today think the best posture is self determination?
This leads to my third argument.
1. God's sovereignty is over all.
2. Free-will asserts man can choose a course of action.
3. Scripture asserts every decision is from the Lord.
4. Either scripture is wrong or man does not have free will as defined.
This now is a note to all those who believe scripture is true. Let us abandon this false notion of free-will for the biblical idea of a limited or restrained will, and this we will do if God permits. Personally I am glad to know God restrains my will, because I know if left to my own devices I can do no good but could only continually do evil.
Now I present none of this to try to lay claim of irresponsibility for my own actions nor would I ever condone such an idea. I do believe man does make conscience finite decisions yet all decisions ultimately are approved by the Lord. There is a type of synergy there that I have yet been able to comprehend, and I may never fully comprehend it. It is God who restrains sin in the life of the believer as evidenced in scripture Romans 1:24 Isaiah 63:17, but it is us who need to pray for forgiveness and strength in the Lord.
Also I think the idea of inaction is one of rebellion and not Christlike. To phrase this in another way, some might say, "Well then I don't have to do anything because God just does it all! (arms folded with a big booboo lip)".
This is not the case either. God uses His agents for His purpose. We know that a saving faith is a working faith. The idea is God's purpose is worked in you and through you but not by you. Decidedly by God, prayer is the vehicle in which we communicate with Him, and is how we can intercede on behalf of others. None of us know who God is going to bring through salvation, so it is best for us to assume nothing, and pray for everything.
Ability to believe
Man is in his fallen state is in bondage, incapable of making any decisions that are in accordance with God's goodness. This I have proven well enough through various scriptures.
Upon hearing the gospel, a spark of clarity goes off if you will, that allows the man to make a choice. The gospel is a divine instrument with miraculous power entrusted in His saints for distribution. Romans 1:16
Upon belief is when the man is regenerated and not before.
I think this must also be added to the discussion at this point.
1 Corinthians 3:7
7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
I do not believe man is capable of growing his own faith as it were, because that would be self determination, but we are solely dependent on God. This should not detract from the idea of cultivating your faith through things such as prayer, meditation, bible reading, fasting, and things of the like. Remember our God is relational and relationships are a two way street. James 4:8
Now this quote from BiggAndyy has been taken from the previous thread:
"Free-will", as it has been discussed on the forum recently and with regards to our participation in salvation in particular, is only a short hand expression for a larger concept; that of the Free Moral Agent, with Moral agency defined as an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some commonly held notion of right and wrong.
Unless you are planning to take this into account in future essays I believe an argument either for or against "free-will" will be incomplete.
Here I agree! Most of my position I will present is taken from "Holman Quick Source Guide to Christian Apologetics" by Doug Powell
Free moral agency
Now I must first state that morality is either viewed as relative or objective.
Relativism is the most widely moral view in our culture and it holds that societies and/or individuals decide what is right and wrong and that those values vary from culture to culture or person to person. For relativism man is the ultimate source of morality.
The man of God rejects this notion of morality because everything is subjective. From this view murder or rape can be viewed no differently than say belching loudly in public. (William Lang Craig) What may prove to be moral to one individual is not necessarily moral to another individual because there is no objective ground to derive a definitive universal definition of morality. Thereby from this viewpoint morality simply does not exist and is rather an illusion.
Objectivism asserts morals are not mere opinions rather they are prescriptions for behavior and motive that have the force of a command. They contain a sense of obligation and oughtness that is universal, authoritative, and outweighs considerations of culture, time, and place. For objectivism God is the ultimate source of morality. God is not the source because what is good is simply deemed good by God, neither that goodness is a force that exists outside of Him, rather that goodness is a reflection of God's character and is based in His nature.
This is an outline of the characteristics of morality:
1. Morality consists of prescriptions for behavior and motives, not descriptions of the world.
2. Morality consists of commands not suggestions.
3. Morality is universal in scope.
4. Morality is objective.
5. Morality is authoritative.
Being that morality contains these characteristics, commands and prescriptions, and because they deal with purpose and will, the source of morality must be able to communicate and must also have purpose and will. Because morals are universal and transcend individuals the source must be transcendent and universal. Since morals are authoritative they must come from an authority. All of these descriptions of character can only be held by a person. This person must have the power to impose His will on us and must be able to provide us the ability to know their moral will through intuition. This person is God. (A variation of this argument is Aquinas' "Fourth Way" for proving the existence of God)
In the case of the individual then it is concluded that his ability to make moral decisions is not based in himself rather God. Thereby all agents regenerated or unregenerate are incapable of making moral judgements on their own because the root of morality flows from the nature of God. Now being that moral agency asserts "an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some commonly held notion of right and wrong" we do have a limited capacity of judgment available to us although even in this we are warned by the apostle.
1 Corinthians 4:5
5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.
If God did not impose His will upon us and provide us with the intuition to know His moral will we would have no morality at all. We are not constructors of morality rather we are subject to God's moral. If subject to God's moral we are not free moral agents rather we are bonded moral agents. Not only is this conclusion logical it is also biblical.
Supporting Scripture
Jeremiah 31:33
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Romans 6:17-18
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 1:1
1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
2 Timothy 2:24
24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
2 Peter 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
James 1:1
1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
It should be noted the the word translated "bond-servant" is the greek word "doulos". This word is defined as slave. If the co-authors of the new testament understood this concept, when then did others in the church lose it?
Also the Law was handed to Moses from God. Throughout the books of Chronicles and Kings it is often quoted the kings either did what was right in their own eyes or did what was right in the eyes of the Lord. These further affirm that God is the sovereign agent over morality not that we are free moral agents rather we are subject to God's morality.
I pray this is edifying to the Church as a whole.
I seek to search the concept of human free-will in accordance with the sovereignty of God.
Let me now affirm I am in no way advocating any ideology other than Christianity and use scripture as the basis of my authority. With this said that does not mean drawing from sources that have also studied this subject detracts from anyones personal integrity, as long as one affirms that information is not one's own. It seems my style of presentation of ideas from earlier posts may have eluded to hidden intentions, as to which I deny. I again ask the Holy Spirit's cooperation in this endeavor in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
Let me address now some objections that may arise. I am not promoting the ideas of fatalism or antinomianism. I am not promoting the idea that man is void of choice. I am not attempting to explain how man's decisions fit within God's purpose. I am not attempting to define the synergy between man's responsibility and God's sovereignty. I am not attempting to create a new ideology. I am not at this time interested in election or predestination, although very interesting topics and somewhat related, I feel they will prove to be distracting.
The reasoning of this subject is as such. It seems some in the church have this notion that God will not supersede man's free-will. I admit I too at one time held this lie of an idea and have said something to the effect of, "I think God operates on a number of plan Bs". Due to more recent studies, I now hold to the notion that I was wrong in my initial assumption and restate my thinking process to state God has, is, and will always operate implementing plan A.
REASONING
1. This line of thinking, God will not supersede man's free-will, is first unbiblical. There are many cases in the bible where this is simply not true, as to which I will demonstrate later.
2. This line of thinking subjects God to man as opposed to man to God.
I am certain this list can be expanded upon but rather than being exhaustive on this subject I choose to be effective.
From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
“Free Will” is a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives."
This is the accepted definition that is circulated throughout secular society and when referring to free-will this is most likely what mot people think of free-will being. I hold to the notion that biblically the case can be made that man simply does not fit within this definition in accordance with his will and thereby this definition of free-will can not be applied to man. I conclude that either this notion of free-will for the Christian be redefined or be disregarded altogether for a more biblical idea of man's limited-will.
God supersedes man's will
Saul of Tarsus
This man is one example of how God exerts His will over humanity. If it were that Saul were free to choose as he wishes, why the road to Damascus incident? Why would God strike this man with blindness and command him to do anything?
Jonah
If it were that Jonah had free-will and God does not impose His will over humanity why did Jonah end up in a great fish? Why would God not rather select another individual to carry out the task he asked Jonah to do?
Pharaoh
Scripture is clear in the fact that God was the acting agent in the case of the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. Exodus 11:10
Judgement
If man were free to choose as he wishes why the thought of judgement to begin with? God has evidentially judged humanity on several occasions, but what is the point of judgement if God has given man freedom of choice?
A few verses that show God supersedes
Exodus 10:1
1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,
Proverbs 21:1
1 The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.
Jeremiah 10:23
23 I know, O Lord, that a man’s way is not in himself, Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
Man is subject to God and not the reverse
If it were true that man has free-will that would mean God is dependent on man's choices and would need to react accordingly in order to keep His own plans and intentions in place. This idea detracts from God's omniscience. I say it detracts from His omniscience because God would be dependent on man's decisions especially in the case of salvation thereby His outlook on the future would be cloudy but from scripture we know this can not be true.
Isaiah 46:10
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
Revelation 1:8
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Kingdoms in humanity are an era long past and the mindset is also. In the past the idea of a sovereign king was simply accepted and his subjects were just that, subject. Now we have more of a democratic society throughout the western world, which I in no way disagree with, but the mindset of the common man has changed. God is our King and we are subject to Him, He is not subject to our free-will.
Daniel 4:17
17 “This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men.”
Now I once heard John Piper talk about God's sovereignty. Interesting but I am not exactly so sure God micro manages everything the way he describes, although . If you want to watch here it is it is only about 6 mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh8XbsB3uLY
Has God decreed I am going to choose chocolate ice-cream as opposed to strawberry? I am not quite that convinced, but God is definite, absolute, and sovereign. Of this I am quite convinced and certain. God did know I was going to choose chocolate, but again I don't think he decreed it, I believe he left that choice to me.
Unsaved agents in accordance with free-will
Let me state I do believe that unsaved agents can do good in this world, although that standard of good is man's standard and not God's. The hidden sin behind every action anyone can do is pride. Charles De Gaulle states it as such “Every man of action has a strong dose of egoism, pride, hardness, and cunning. But all those things will be regarded as high qualities if he can make them the means to achieve great ends.”
Yes these qualities the world may regard as high, but I am certain God does not. Isaiah 2:11 Matthew 23:12 In this the man of God cries out in harmony with the psalmist: Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults, also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins; let them not rule over me; then I will be blameless, and I shall be acquitted of great transgression. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer.
Moving now to scripture we can see the position of humanity before grace.
Genesis 6:5
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Jeremiah 17:9
9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Matthew 15:18
18 “But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
19 “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
John 8:33
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
Romans 1:21
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 3:10-18
10 as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Scripture is full and clear describing the depraved state of humanity. Jesus Himself says anyone who sins is a slave to it. Being a slave means you are not your own, you are owned by another agent. We know there are only two types of children, children of God and children of wrath, whose father is the devil.
First case, the unregenerate is unable to please God. Hebrews 11:6
The reasoning is given by Paul also in Romans 8:7-8
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even ableto do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
First argument:
1. An agent possessing free will can freely choose any course of action.
2. Those agents who's mind is set on the flesh can not subject itself to the law of God or please God.
3. Free-will as defined does not exist or is only possessed by agents who's mind is not set on the flesh.
Necessity
Consequence or recourse is the effect of choice. True freedom is simply that, free. The simple fact of consequence proves not all choices are free for if they were free then consequence could not lay claim. I know of only one agent in which this statement can not be applied, that is God. To restate, God is the only one to be able to choose as He pleases without having anyone to answer to or having consequence, thereby He is the only one to have free-will.
I have proven that the unregenerate is unable to possess free-will, yet even the regenerate is only regenerate because of the grace of God. Not that we choose him freely, but that He first chooses us. Romans 3:11 John 15:16 Ephesians 1:4 God's grace is then the necessary agent in order to allow humans to be able to choose God's standard of good. Thereby we do all things from necessity not free-will.
Martian Luther in his response to Erasmus titled "Bondage of the Will" put it as such "It now then follows, that "free-will is plainly a divine term, and can be applicable to none but the divine Majesty only; for He alone "doth (as the Psalm sings) what He will in Heaven and earth." Whereas, if it be ascribed unto men, it is not more properly ascribed, than the divinity of God Himself would be ascribed unto them: which would be the greatest sacrilege."
Second argument.
1. God is free to make His choices without consequence or needing anything thereby God has free-will.
2. Man's choices come with consequences.
3. Man can not choose to do good without God's necessary intervention.
4. Man does not have free-will as defined.
God's sovereignty
The Sovereignty of God is now the next portion I will address. Scripture is full of instances that prove God is Sovereign.
Psalm 103:19
19 The Lord has established His throne in the heavens, And His sovereignty rules over all.
Proverbs 16:33
33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the Lord.
Proverbs 16:1-4
1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.
2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the Lord weighs the motives.
3 Commit your works to the Lord And your plans will be established.
4 The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Exodus 10:1
1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,
Deuteronomy 2:30
30 “But Sihon king of Heshbon was not willing for us to pass through his land; for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, in order to deliver him into your hand, as he is today.
Deuteronomy 29:4
4 “Yet to this day the Lord has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.
Deuteronomy 32:39
39 ‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life.
I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
Proverbs 21:1
1 The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes.
Isaiah 63:17
17 Why, O Lord, do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You? Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage.
Jeremiah 10:23
23 I know, O Lord, that a man’s way is not in himself, Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
Jeremiah 32:40
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.
Daniel 4:35
35 “All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven Andamong the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’
Acts 16:14
14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
Romans 9:16
16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
2 Corinthians 5:14
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
2 Timothy 4:18
18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
1 Peter 5:10
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.
God does indeed intervene in the affairs of humanity. I pray you reflect on these passages and see it is God who is in control and not you over your life. Truly the posture of the prophet Jeremiah was one of submission Jeremiah 10:23 so why is it so many today think the best posture is self determination?
This leads to my third argument.
1. God's sovereignty is over all.
2. Free-will asserts man can choose a course of action.
3. Scripture asserts every decision is from the Lord.
4. Either scripture is wrong or man does not have free will as defined.
This now is a note to all those who believe scripture is true. Let us abandon this false notion of free-will for the biblical idea of a limited or restrained will, and this we will do if God permits. Personally I am glad to know God restrains my will, because I know if left to my own devices I can do no good but could only continually do evil.
Now I present none of this to try to lay claim of irresponsibility for my own actions nor would I ever condone such an idea. I do believe man does make conscience finite decisions yet all decisions ultimately are approved by the Lord. There is a type of synergy there that I have yet been able to comprehend, and I may never fully comprehend it. It is God who restrains sin in the life of the believer as evidenced in scripture Romans 1:24 Isaiah 63:17, but it is us who need to pray for forgiveness and strength in the Lord.
Also I think the idea of inaction is one of rebellion and not Christlike. To phrase this in another way, some might say, "Well then I don't have to do anything because God just does it all! (arms folded with a big booboo lip)".
This is not the case either. God uses His agents for His purpose. We know that a saving faith is a working faith. The idea is God's purpose is worked in you and through you but not by you. Decidedly by God, prayer is the vehicle in which we communicate with Him, and is how we can intercede on behalf of others. None of us know who God is going to bring through salvation, so it is best for us to assume nothing, and pray for everything.
Ability to believe
Man is in his fallen state is in bondage, incapable of making any decisions that are in accordance with God's goodness. This I have proven well enough through various scriptures.
Upon hearing the gospel, a spark of clarity goes off if you will, that allows the man to make a choice. The gospel is a divine instrument with miraculous power entrusted in His saints for distribution. Romans 1:16
Upon belief is when the man is regenerated and not before.
I think this must also be added to the discussion at this point.
1 Corinthians 3:7
7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
I do not believe man is capable of growing his own faith as it were, because that would be self determination, but we are solely dependent on God. This should not detract from the idea of cultivating your faith through things such as prayer, meditation, bible reading, fasting, and things of the like. Remember our God is relational and relationships are a two way street. James 4:8
Now this quote from BiggAndyy has been taken from the previous thread:
"Free-will", as it has been discussed on the forum recently and with regards to our participation in salvation in particular, is only a short hand expression for a larger concept; that of the Free Moral Agent, with Moral agency defined as an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some commonly held notion of right and wrong.
Unless you are planning to take this into account in future essays I believe an argument either for or against "free-will" will be incomplete.
Here I agree! Most of my position I will present is taken from "Holman Quick Source Guide to Christian Apologetics" by Doug Powell
Free moral agency
Now I must first state that morality is either viewed as relative or objective.
Relativism is the most widely moral view in our culture and it holds that societies and/or individuals decide what is right and wrong and that those values vary from culture to culture or person to person. For relativism man is the ultimate source of morality.
The man of God rejects this notion of morality because everything is subjective. From this view murder or rape can be viewed no differently than say belching loudly in public. (William Lang Craig) What may prove to be moral to one individual is not necessarily moral to another individual because there is no objective ground to derive a definitive universal definition of morality. Thereby from this viewpoint morality simply does not exist and is rather an illusion.
Objectivism asserts morals are not mere opinions rather they are prescriptions for behavior and motive that have the force of a command. They contain a sense of obligation and oughtness that is universal, authoritative, and outweighs considerations of culture, time, and place. For objectivism God is the ultimate source of morality. God is not the source because what is good is simply deemed good by God, neither that goodness is a force that exists outside of Him, rather that goodness is a reflection of God's character and is based in His nature.
This is an outline of the characteristics of morality:
1. Morality consists of prescriptions for behavior and motives, not descriptions of the world.
2. Morality consists of commands not suggestions.
3. Morality is universal in scope.
4. Morality is objective.
5. Morality is authoritative.
Being that morality contains these characteristics, commands and prescriptions, and because they deal with purpose and will, the source of morality must be able to communicate and must also have purpose and will. Because morals are universal and transcend individuals the source must be transcendent and universal. Since morals are authoritative they must come from an authority. All of these descriptions of character can only be held by a person. This person must have the power to impose His will on us and must be able to provide us the ability to know their moral will through intuition. This person is God. (A variation of this argument is Aquinas' "Fourth Way" for proving the existence of God)
In the case of the individual then it is concluded that his ability to make moral decisions is not based in himself rather God. Thereby all agents regenerated or unregenerate are incapable of making moral judgements on their own because the root of morality flows from the nature of God. Now being that moral agency asserts "an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some commonly held notion of right and wrong" we do have a limited capacity of judgment available to us although even in this we are warned by the apostle.
1 Corinthians 4:5
5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.
If God did not impose His will upon us and provide us with the intuition to know His moral will we would have no morality at all. We are not constructors of morality rather we are subject to God's moral. If subject to God's moral we are not free moral agents rather we are bonded moral agents. Not only is this conclusion logical it is also biblical.
Supporting Scripture
Jeremiah 31:33
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Romans 6:17-18
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 1:1
1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
2 Timothy 2:24
24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
2 Peter 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
James 1:1
1 James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings.
It should be noted the the word translated "bond-servant" is the greek word "doulos". This word is defined as slave. If the co-authors of the new testament understood this concept, when then did others in the church lose it?
Also the Law was handed to Moses from God. Throughout the books of Chronicles and Kings it is often quoted the kings either did what was right in their own eyes or did what was right in the eyes of the Lord. These further affirm that God is the sovereign agent over morality not that we are free moral agents rather we are subject to God's morality.
I pray this is edifying to the Church as a whole.
