How Unique are You?

CoreIssue · Jan 13, 2019

Dave L said:
You accept one set of teachers refuted by the creeds, and reject those who refuted them without considering the evidence. = Bad juror.....

Retracted by Catholic creeds? Who cares?

Nancy · Jan 13, 2019

CoreIssue said:
That is false. The Bible says God influences people to actions based on what they already want to do.

Your argument exactly the argument of Calvinism. That God plants and people a desire that they act on free will.

Problem is is not free will when God programs somebody to make that choice thinking they're doing so in free will.

Agreed, God is big enough to give us free will to love Him AND complete His purposes...He uses any and all circumstances to His glory... He does NOT MAKE us do anything we ourselves CHOOSE to do or not to do...there are always choices

Enoch111 · Jan 13, 2019

CoreIssue said:
You really want to appeal to Catholic creeds?

The creeds are accepted by both Catholics and Protestants. They have their value in that they outline the fundamentals of the Christian faith. At the same time Catholics and Protestants understand some of the clauses differently. Ultimately Scripture is the final authority, and yet some of the Protestant confessions of faith have also misapplied Scripture. The Athanasian Creed was specifically formulated to combat the Arian heresy pertaining to the person of Christ as well as Anti-Trinitarianism.

Waiting on him · Jan 13, 2019

Dave L said:
"Narrow" = 22.21 θλίβωb: to cause someone to suffer trouble or hardship—‘to cause trouble to, to persecute, to cause to suffer hardship.’ ἀνταποδοῦναι τοῖς θλίβουσιν ὑμᾶς θλῖψιν ‘to bring suffering on those who make you suffer’ 2 Th 1:6; στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδός ‘the gate is narrow and the way is difficult (to travel)’ Mt 7:14.

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 244). New York: United Bible Societies.

That’s the way it is through a wine press!

Waiting on him · Jan 13, 2019

amadeus said:
What I said stands. I believe that the scriptures were written as men were inspired by God to do so. I have no way of knowing whether any, or all, or none of the writers of those ecumenical creeds were writing under God's inspiration... unless He told me they were. He has not so spoke to me, so why should I read them rather than the Koran or the Book of Mormon or the Codes of Hammurabi? Some of these has someone saying they are worthwhile reading. Some would even say God inspired them. Why should I rank the ecumenical creeds above them as things I should read or study?

I read my Bible daily for long periods of time. Should I read one or all of those mention above instead of or in addition to the Bible? What are my ears hearing? What are my eyes seeing? Who am I seeing or who am I listening to...?

Am I a sheep or a goat?

Romans 8:36 KJV
[36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Tecarta Bible Premium

CoreIssue · Jan 13, 2019

Enoch111 said:
The creeds are accepted by both Catholics and Protestants. They have their value in that they outline the fundamentals of the Christian faith. At the same time Catholics and Protestants understand some of the clauses differently. Ultimately Scripture is the final authority, and yet some of the Protestant confessions of faith have also misapplied Scripture. The Athanasian Creed was specifically formulated to combat the Arian heresy pertaining to the person of Christ as well as Anti-Trinitarianism.

You mean denomination. I am talking about Christianity.

The Canons of the Council of Orange

CANON 4
If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, "The will is prepared by the Lord" (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

Calvinism does not agree with this.

CANON 7
If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, as is expedient for us, or that we can be saved, that is, assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who makes all men gladly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray by a heretical spirit, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, "For apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, "Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God" (2 Cor. 3:5).

Catholicism violates this.

CANON 8
If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, which has manifestly been corrupted in all those who have been born after the transgression of the first man, it is proof that he has no place in the true faith. For he denies that the free will of all men has been weakened through the sin of the first man, or at least holds that it has been affected in such a way that they have still the ability to seek the mystery of eternal salvation by themselves without the revelation of God. The Lord himself shows how contradictory this is by declaring that no one is able to come to him "unless the Father who sent me draws him" (John 6:44), as he also says to Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 16:17), and as the Apostle says, "No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3).

Calvinism does not support this.

CANON 18
That grace is not preceded by merit. Recompense is due to good works if they are performed; but grace, to which we have no claim, precedes them, to enable them to be done.

Catholicism doesn't believe this.

Read the conclusion of this Creed. It is addressed to Catholic leaders only.

I will stop here for now.

You also fail to acknowledge Catholic theology is cult and not every Christian is Protestant or Catholic.

Enoch111 · Jan 13, 2019

CoreIssue said:
I will stop here for now.

You are not quoting from the Creeds. Probably the Council of Trent.

CoreIssue · Jan 13, 2019

Enoch111 said:
You are not quoting from the Creeds. Probably the Council of Trent.

You are not reading. I stated The Canons of the Council of Orange

Creeds, Christian Church Doctrine, Christianity, Faith

CoreIssue · Jan 13, 2019

Creeds and Confessions | CARM.org

Chalcedonian Creed (A.D. 451)
born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God

ScottA · Jan 14, 2019

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

The misconceptions come from not being able to imagine how a holy god could do evil and still be holy. The answer is...

Consider this: If Walt Disney "created" a story of an evil witch and poison apples that has a happy ending, does that make him evil?

The subject here...is the "reality" of created things.

The reality is...we are like pixelated characters in a created animated cartoon discussing whether or not our dirty little pixelated evils amount to dirt on our Creator. We may as well sit around the toilet and discuss whether the evil there came from an evil person. But, no, what is discarded is not evil to him who discards it...unless he likes it and keeps it. Eeeewwww!

Matthew 15:16-17

We should not let our "reality" crisis allow us to think worse of God...or better of men.

Danube · Jan 14, 2019

Dave L said:
Or every evil act as in the case of David and Bathsheba that ultimately produced Jesus.

That is very blasphemic to our LORD and SAVIOR.
You also do not believe Mary and Joseph' testimony.

Dave L said:
In this I believe that every electron is exactly where God wanted it to be at any given time in his eternal plan. If he works all things after the council of his own will, how could it be otherwise?

You give your own killer his alibi.

Dave L said:
How does anything or anyone move under their own power apart from God?

Matthew 12:33

Dave L said:
But Paul says God works ALL things after the council of his own will.

Paul says.....

Dave L said:
God keeps the Devil alive and controls his actions or else the Devil is in control (God).

1 Peter 5-8

Dave L said:
How can God permit people to do anything under their own power when they have none of their own?

Matthew 12:33

Dave L said:
You accept one set of teachers refuted by the creeds, and reject those who refuted them without considering the evidence. = Bad juror.....

Matthew 23:8

Dave L · Jan 14, 2019

Danube said:
That is very blasphemic to our LORD and SAVIOR.
You also do not believe Mary and Joseph' testimony.

You give your own killer his alibi.

Matthew 12:33

Paul says.....

1 Peter 5-8

Matthew 12:33

Matthew 23:8

If God is not the cause (creator of all), sinners are and you sin making yourself God.

Dave L · Jan 14, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Retracted by Catholic creeds? Who cares?

How did God preserve the Law in the OT? The same way he preserved the New Covenant in the NT. That is in both cases he used the wicked State. You can scoff but you follow a false Christ if you reject the ecumenical creeds. You can play with petty denominational creeds, but these define Christ and Christianity based on scripture alone.

Dave L · Jan 14, 2019

amadeus said:
I accept the Holy Spirit and anyone teaching under the anointing of the Spirit. Remember that God can speak even through the mouth of a donkey. Go slow on condemning a teacher who is not supporting your own pet doctrines. Back in the lowest room my friend is where the answer lies.

These are not pet doctrines. Christianity is the only religion to worship God in trinity. You are more like Islam and Judaism. = false Christ.

Dave L · Jan 14, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Which proves what I said denies your claim of eternally coexisting in God's mind with him.

It uses scripture alone to prove your view of "foreknow" is engineered to fit your scheme.

CoreIssue · Jan 14, 2019

Dave L said:
It uses scripture alone to prove your view of "foreknow" is engineered to fit your scheme.

So Romans 8 is an "engineered" lie.

CoreIssue · Jan 14, 2019

Dave L said:
How did God preserve the Law in the OT? The same way he preserved the New Covenant in the NT. That is in both cases he used the wicked State. You can scoff but you follow a false Christ if you reject the ecumenical creeds. You can play with petty denominational creeds, but these define Christ and Christianity based on scripture alone.

God preserved the Scriptures in spite of government.

As with the NT, it was in wide circulation before Catholicism ever existed or these creeds were written.

Helen · Jan 14, 2019

ScottA said:
If Walt Disney "created" a story of an evil witch and poison apples that has a happy ending, does that make him evil?

I'm glad you said IF.

He created the movie...he didn't create the story.
But, I'm sure you already know it was written by The Brother Grimm around 1850 ...

Not that it makes a lick of difference in this thread, or to the point that you were making....

......it's just that as I read all these threads on the site...these days I find so little that I want to respond too...so, I am just playing the fool here and butting in...

Take care....Helen

Dave L · Jan 14, 2019

CoreIssue said:
God preserved the Scriptures in spite of government.

As with the NT, it was in wide circulation before Catholicism ever existed or these creeds were written.

But false teachers crept in and the church had to put into writing what scripture taught about God, Christ, Sin, and Christ's human nature. If you know anything about this, it probably came through one of the creeds.

Dave L · Jan 14, 2019

CoreIssue said:
So Romans 8 is an "engineered" lie.

You are hedging on the complete definition of "foreknow" and twisting it to accommodate your idea about God.

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